GK Ready Guitars

Started by Elantric, January 23, 2008, 01:37:57 PM

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admin

#150
Quote from: Sal_amie on July 30, 2020, 09:24:47 PM
I'm sure I saw a post on this forum about MIDI 2.0. I'll post here though.

I keep reading how the Roland GK Pickups have latency issues even though all of the sound samples and videos look and sound really cool with what people do with it.

Anyone here would know if a MIDI 2.0 guitar or a MIDI 2.0 GK pickup would solve latency issues?

Thanks!

The Roland GK-3 Gk13 pin pickup is NOT MIDI - its  100% ANALOG and no more latency than a normal mag PU feeding a  Guitar cable


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14088.0


Same with the similar Yamaha G1D, Axon AIX-103 third party hex pickups with  " 100% ANALOG GK 13 PIN OUTPUT

We discuss MIDI in  the separate MIDI AREA
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=7.0


MIDI 2.0 MMA and AMEI announce MIDI 2.0 Prototyping
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=25084.0


AlakaLazlo

I doubt Midi2.0 will have any meaningful effect on the latency issue.  With all guitar to midi (or CV) solutions, the latency is mostly the result of the amount of time the system requires to translate a note played on the guitar to a midi note. 

These GK3 (and other hex pick-up) based systems (be they Roland, Axon or FTP) work by detecting the start and end time of the note (when the note is played and when it ends) as well as the frequency (pitch) of the note by detecting the magnetic vibrations of the string.

The on/off is easy and results in very little latency. A basic envelope follower can do that almost instantaneously. 

The issue is that (unless a wired fret system is used) the pitch can't be measured accurately until the string goes through enough of a frequency cycle (vibration/hz) for the pitch to midi converter's algorithm to figure out the pitch. Until the pitch is determined, the on/off is useless - and in fact a premature "on" will result in an incorrect pitch. As a result, latency will always be higher on lower frequency notes (because the frequency cycle is longer) than higher notes (that vibrate faster and have shorter frequency cycles). E.g. an A at 440hz takes twice as long to go through a vibration cycle (1/440th of a second) than an A an octave higher at 880hz (1/880th of a second).

Once the pitch is determined, the system sends the midi note out via midi to other devices.  Midi 2.0 may increase the transfer speed (slightly) between devices, but won't effect the the speed of the note detection.   
Hexstainocaster, Fender Strat and Electric XII, Godin ACS, Axon AX50 - Moog One, IIP and Mini, SEM, Dot.Com/Moon/STG/FSFX 110, Cubase Pro, 2xMR816, HR824, NS10M, Komplete, Omnisphere/RMX/Trilian, Z3ta+, Analog Lab, Slate MTi2, ML1 and Everything Bundle, Social Entropy Engine, ESQ1, DX7, Lavalamp.

Sal_amie

Quote from: AlakaLazlo on July 31, 2020, 09:18:00 AM
I doubt Midi2.0 will have any meaningful effect on the latency issue.  With all guitar to midi (or CV) solutions, the latency is mostly the result of the amount of time the system requires to translate a note played on the guitar to a midi note. 

These GK3 (and other hex pick-up) based systems (be they Roland, Axon or FTP) work by detecting the start and end time of the note (when the note is played and when it ends) as well as the frequency (pitch) of the note by detecting the magnetic vibrations of the string.

The on/off is easy and results in very little latency. A basic envelope follower can do that almost instantaneously. 

The issue is that (unless a wired fret system is used) the pitch can't be measured accurately until the string goes through enough of a frequency cycle (vibration/hz) for the pitch to midi converter's algorithm to figure out the pitch. Until the pitch is determined, the on/off is useless - and in fact a premature "on" will result in an incorrect pitch. As a result, latency will always be higher on lower frequency notes (because the frequency cycle is longer) than higher notes (that vibrate faster and have shorter frequency cycles). E.g. an A at 440hz takes twice as long to go through a vibration cycle (1/440th of a second) than an A an octave higher at 880hz (1/880th of a second).

Once the pitch is determined, the system sends the midi note out via midi to other devices.  Midi 2.0 may increase the transfer speed (slightly) between devices, but won't effect the the speed of the note detection.

Thanks to you and Admin for the feedback. Interesting about the difference between low and higher strings. Looking at some sites right now I seem to have read that before about wired fret systems.

Not to get too off topic from other parts of the forum but so then what would be the benefit(s) of MIDI 2.0 in terms of using MIDI 2.0 with guitar? Would MIDI 2.0 be better suited for non guitar instruments in terms of what someone could do with manipulating sound(s)? Or would you say that guitar would offer more control and expression?

That said something I'm interested in trying is using the software Scala (which I'm sure you've all read about: http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/) with guitar and a Fishman Tripleplay.
I emailed the creator of Scala and he gave me a suggestion of how I could use the Tripleplay with Scala. I thought that would sound interesting mixing Scala with a non 12 tone temperament refretted microtonal fretboard.

admin

#153
Making a guitar microtonal
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2245.0

HPI - FLASH polyphonic microtonal FM synthesizer in a MIDI PLUG
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=26655.msg194303#msg194303

https://hpi.zentral.zone/tbx2b
https://hpi.zentral.zone/tonalplexus


LMMS - Lets Make Music Open Source Software (Win, OSX, Linux)
(Embedded ZynAddSubFx: Polyphonic, mutlitimbral, microtonal, multi-voice additive, subtractive and pad synthesis all in one powerful plugin)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21741.msg156774#msg156774
https://lmms.io/

Kelfar - WorldScales
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17665.msg125855#msg125855

adamlee011

#154
I scrolled through quite a bit of this and didn't see it, and can no longer find it in a Google search. Anybody know the model number of the roland ready ibanez s they made back when? I made my own (you can check out the whole build on this site.... Somewhere) but I'm trying to find the name and pics of the one they made.

Edit : here's the write up on mine.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=16208.msg115813#msg115813

adamlee011

Quote from:  Bluesbird on September 16, 2020, 03:09:48 PM
13 pin: RG420GK and RG1520GK

https://ibanez.fandom.com/wiki/RG420GK

24 pin: IMG2010

https://ibanez.fandom.com/wiki/IMG2010

None of those. It's an s or saber body. With two cat's eyes in front. One for the gk and one 1/4." I know it existed. I've seen it. But it's been a long time.

kenact

Quote from: adamlee011 on September 16, 2020, 03:11:31 PM
None of those. It's an s or saber body. With two cat's eyes in front. One for the gk and one 1/4." I know it existed. I've seen it. But it's been a long time.
I found this one, but it isn't 13 pin.

https://guitarz.blogspot.com/2013/04/ibanez-prestige-saber-2020xav-with.html
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

adamlee011

Quote from: kenact on March 07, 2021, 10:07:47 AM
I found this one, but it isn't 13 pin.

https://guitarz.blogspot.com/2013/04/ibanez-prestige-saber-2020xav-with.html

You know what I eventually decided that must be what I saw. I guess it could be modified pretty easily. Idk about the double edge though. Might need a ghost trem to get the six signals you need. Easier than putting a gk in my s certainly. I couldn't keep the quarter inch and had to cut the pickup ring for the hex pup. Among other things.

admin

Step Loudly Instruments
The Shadow MIDI Guitar



The Shadow MIDI Guitar Specifications":
BODY
Warmoth Roasted Alder Strat Body

Contoured Heel

Strat / Strat / Strat Pickup Configuration

Fiesta Red Clear Gloss Finish

NECK
Warmoth Vintage / Modern Construction Birdseye Maple Neck

25-1/2" Scale Length

Standard Thin Profile

10"-16" Compound Radius

Dark Indian Rosewood Fingerboard

Mother of Pearl Dot Inlays

White Side Dots

1-5/8" Nut Width

GraphTech White TUSK XL Nut

22 Stainless Steel Jumbo Frets (SS6150)

Clear Gloss Finish

Fender Locking 6-in-line Locking Machine Heads

GraphTech TUSK XL String Tree

TREMOLO
Wilkinson by Gotoh VS100 Tremolo Bridge

GraphTech Piezo Saddles PN-8000-00

Killer Guitar Components Brass Tremolo Block for Wilkinson VS100 Tremolo

FU-Tone Brass Claw

Rockinger Black Box Tremolo Stabilizer

FU-Tone Silent Springs Light Duty Yellow (3x)

PICKUPS
Bridge: DiMarzio Fast Track 2 DP182AW+N

Middle: DiMarzio Cruiser Bridge DP187AW+N

Neck: DiMarzio Cruiser Bridge DP187AW+N

Piezo: GraphTech Ghost PN-8200-00 Acoustic Saddles

ELECTRONICS
GraphTech Acousti-Phonic Preamp

GraphTech Hexpander Preamp

Magnetic Volume – 500KA Bourns Sealed Potentiometer

Acoustic Volume – 500KA Bourns Sealed Potentiometer

Magnetic Tone – 500KA Bourns Sealed Potentiometer with 33nF Orange Drop Capacitor enabled only when Neck or Middle Pickups are selected

Adjustable Treble Bleed Circuit

Dual 9VDC Batteries power preamp using 18VDC

Midi Volume – 300KB Bourns Sealed Potentiometer

¼" Stereo Jack

When a ¼" TRS Stereo Cable is installed, the Acousti-Phonic preamp detects the Stereo cable and presents the Magnetic Pickup signal to the TIP and presents the Acoustic Piezo pickup signal to the RING. Both signals are referenced to GND on the Shield.

When a ¼" TS Mono Cable is installed, the Acousti-Phonic preamp detects the Mono cable and mixes both the Magnetic and Acoustic signal and presents that signal to the TIP. The mixed signal is referenced to GND on the Shield.

MIDI
Refer to the GraphTech Ghost installation guid for operation of the GraphTech Ghost system 

SWITCHING
Standard Strat 5-Way Switch

Bridge Pickup Override Enable Switch

Acoustic Midrange Dark Enable Switch

Magnetic / Acoustic Selector Switch

Midi Program Change (Increment / Decrement)

STRINGS
Guitar has been setup to support Ernie Ball Hybrid Slinky Strings

E: .009, B: .011, G: .016, D: .026, A: .036, E: .046

MISCELLANEOUS
The Neck / Body joint utilizes .5 degrees shim to ensure that the guitar strings are elevated from the body sufficiently to allow routing cables for the GraphTech Ghost underneath the bridge plate.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: admin on July 17, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Step Loudly Instruments
The Shadow MIDI Guitar



Really?  MIDI Guitar?  Unbelievable, idiots!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

admin



Robert  Fripp's 1985 Gibson Roland Ready Les Paul, with mods form Crimson Guitars UK
https://www.joness.com/gr300/Gibson_Les_Paul_LPK-1_Roland_Ready_Vintage_Controller.htm




dr_macd

bonnie Raitt had a blue signatre roland ready guitar i believe.
1997 Black USA Fender Roland Ready Stratocaster,
USA Seafoam Green Closet Pro Fender Custom Shop Strat,
USA Red Fender Telecaster with Fishman Tripple play,
Indonesian Trans Red Jim Adkins Telecaster,
MEX Sunburst Nashville Power Telecaster,
USA  PRS SC245,
USA Taylor T5.

2pods

AFAIK It was a blue Strat with a narrower fingerboard than usual.
Definitely not a Roland Ready
Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

kenact

Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

dr_macd

Quote from: 2pods on December 31, 2021, 12:07:14 PM
AFAIK It was a blue Strat with a narrower fingerboard than usual.
Definitely not a Roland Ready

Well I remember Fender had had a poster advertising it, i believe i saw on here for sale at either ebay or reverb many years ago. i have been searching for it but not found it yet.
1997 Black USA Fender Roland Ready Stratocaster,
USA Seafoam Green Closet Pro Fender Custom Shop Strat,
USA Red Fender Telecaster with Fishman Tripple play,
Indonesian Trans Red Jim Adkins Telecaster,
MEX Sunburst Nashville Power Telecaster,
USA  PRS SC245,
USA Taylor T5.

2pods

The deal was that she wanted Fender to encourage more woman into guitar playing, so got Fender to use  a neck which was narrower at the nut, and not as deep.
I don't know why they thought that would appeal more to more women and girls, as she kept on playing her old brown Strat.

Possibly one with a retrofit internal GK you saw on here ?
Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

mooncaine

Sounds like that would be a groovy strat neck to try, though.

2pods

I would have liked to try one too.

I foolishly let a Japanese Tokai ST60 go which had a neck along the same lines.
Shallow, thin nut width, and vintage radius 7.5, Candy Apple Red metal flake.

the only Strat I have along those lines now is one of the Mexican "Classic 50s" in Daphne Blue, but that's a maple board.
I think the other two (both Mexican RR and VG Strats) are 9.5 radius. Both are nice guitars though  8)
Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay


2pods

Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

admin

#170



PHRED Guitars
An array of different Import and USA made guitars, inspired by Jerry Garcia instruments
https://shop.phredinstruments.com/guitars


Any model may be ordered with your choice of Roland GK-Internal Kit , Graphtech Ghost 13 Pin, or Graphtech Ghost 13 Pin + Piezo Out. 

https://shop.phredinstruments.com/all-upgrade-options


chrish

Quote from: admin on July 24, 2022, 01:27:19 AM


PHRED Guitars
An array of different Import and USA made guitars, inspired by Jerry Garcia instruments
https://shop.phredinstruments.com/guitars


Any model may be ordered with your choice of Roland GK-Internal Kit , Graphtech Ghost 13 Pin, or Graphtech Ghost 13 Pin + Piezo Out. 

https://shop.phredinstruments.com/all-upgrade-options


$700 GK internal kit add on for "midi" pickup. When will they learn?

Quote

"Add a MIDI and/or Piezo pickup to your guitar to interface with MIDI sound modules."

Matteo Barducci

Quote from: chrish on July 24, 2022, 12:03:40 PM$700 GK internal kit add on for "midi" pickup. When will they learn?"

Obviously, never.

But we are well acquainted to this. In the end, this is a common expression.
--

---> Matteo Barducci

chrish

Quote from: Matteo Barducci on July 25, 2022, 01:28:29 AMObviously, never.

But we are well acquainted to this. In the end, this is a common expression.
yes it is and the usage creates VG, GP and SY confusion as many guitar players don't understand these "midi" triggered DSP are not midi triggered DSP.

Even Sweetwater can't get it right.