SY-300 - Input settings

Started by Brak(E)man, July 02, 2016, 06:14:18 AM

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Brak(E)man

I've been playing around with the input settings , the manual doesn't really help , and I can't find a good setting really.

Could you upload a pict of your settings please so I have something to compare to.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

szilard

Mine is set and forget - SYSTEM, SET3.
SET3 is for VG-99 as input. I have a couple patches in VG 99 to drive the SY-300. A clean Godin & Strat. I have a couple others, but I haven't recorded with them yet. The Godin patch in VG-99 is setup with input coming from normal pickup and nothing else is set. It just has a good volume level set for the S-300. The Strat setting is similar, but it has some EQ to level out the freq - I boost the mid-range a bit. The levels are set so normal rhythm playing is just below the gray bar and playing harder is about half-way into the gray. SET1 and SET2 are setup for using the Godin and Strat directly, but don't sound or behave any differently.

COMPSW is OFF, ATTACK 50, SUSTAIN 50, LEVEL 50.
SENS 0, LOW 0, HIGH 0, BASS MODE OFF.

These are all done with that patch with a Godin LGXT -
    Leads -
       

       

    Background Synth -
       


SET1 (Direct AM STD Strat with Joe Barden Pups)
    COMPSW is OFF, ATTACK 50, SUSTAIN 50, LEVEL 50.
    SENS +6, LOW +18, HIGH -30, BASS MODE OFF.

SET2 (Direct Godin LGXT)
    COMPSW is OFF, ATTACK 50, SUSTAIN 50, LEVEL 50.
    SENS -36, LOW 0, HIGH -21, BASS MODE OFF.





Brak(E)man

Thanx , I'm beginning to realize that this might be the key to unlock part of Pandora's box
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Belewguitar

YES! this helped me create my patches! I'm sure if you tried to use my patches and hadn't messed with this, it would sound horrible. I'll screenshot my settings
NO my guitar isn't broken, its just missing its head.

Brak(E)man

thanx, please do , I'm finding that with the settings i want for the sort of solo and chord sounds I want to use,
the factory Presets are going Whackooooo , I don't mean just distorted 8 some are ) , but they don't sound anything like the patches at all, they're out of tune etc etc the SY sounds like on crack
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Belewguitar

So I just checked it out... Apparently my settings weren't on and I've been using it without anything... oops.... BUT I swear I am a tone snob! Check out my sound! https://soundcloud.com/funkworthy/mr-magic-feat-daisy-gibson
NO my guitar isn't broken, its just missing its head.

Brak(E)man

I will , I can say that the input settings change more than the rest in this blue can
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

jassy

A thing I remember heavily while I had it (returned in the 30 days trial) was how "brutally" affected the sound produced the different input setting, it made a huge difference with every sound i tried or tweaked.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: jassy on July 03, 2016, 04:12:00 PM
A thing I remember heavily while I had it (returned in the 30 days trial) was how "brutally" affected the sound produced the different input setting, it made a huge difference with every sound i tried or tweaked.

Yes and since you can save it with every patch , I'm hoping this is the key to the box.
The difference in settings makes as you put it a brutal impact and I've found that there's where some patches comes alive , sound organic and analogue
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Belewguitar

If you make some real breakthroughs, I hope you will post your findings!!! Screenshots are probably easier than typing it out.
NO my guitar isn't broken, its just missing its head.

chrish

I've noticed that patches downloaded here don't sound the same on my system as they do on the mp3 examples. So input settings and different guitars  (as well as speakers) produce different results in sound. Maybe even how the sound is played. I enjoy patches that will crash and burn if the string is picked to hard, but if the dynamic sweet spot is hit, that's where it sounds best. Kind of like playing a feedback effect. 

jassy

Quote from: chrish on July 04, 2016, 09:31:36 AM
I've noticed that patches downloaded here don't sound the same on my system as they do on the mp3 examples.
Exactly, the patches I downloaded from the Roland site (G Keller, etc) sounded really very different in my hands to the sound examples.
Because of all that one of my conclusions was that it is a very temperamental device and was not easy to control it and be able to recall the same sound while changing the guitar pickup or signal level where making so much variation in the sound.

Brak(E)man

The more I tweak the input settings the more confused I get.
It's for sure one of the more important parts in a sound.
Two different input settings give sometimes two completely different sounds.
Perhaps a hidden key but at the moment encrypted
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Synthetica

Quote from: Belewguitar on July 03, 2016, 02:22:24 PM
So I just checked it out... Apparently my settings weren't on and I've been using it without anything... oops.... BUT I swear I am a tone snob! Check out my sound! https://soundcloud.com/funkworthy/mr-magic-feat-daisy-gibson

I'm curious what setting did you not have turned on ?

Thanks

Brak(E)man

Having worked again with the input settings I'm closer to understanding some and more confused by other things.
Clearly this input setting plays a seriously huge part in the programming.
Maybe I'm off the chart here but apart from having the guitar string as the origin of the sound, this amplitude before the osc sets it apart from any other synth programming I've done before.
I'm not even sure what it affects apart from the obvious parameters.

I can't even wrap my head around the input compressors attack setting
Turning it one way can have the same effect as turning it the other way
on another sound

and when turning sensitivity up to clip level, some sounds come alive , some go
bonkers others behave as they should distort in a digital way
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

rolandvg99

The guitar and pickup positions have quite an influence on the timbre of the sound this unit produces. Patches needs tweaking to suit your style and input device. I almost always make my own patches to work around being frustrated by things not sounding like they do on other peoples recordings. Pickup switch positions have more influence on the sound than the type of pickup used (at least on my gear).
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Brak(E)man

Quote from: rolandvg99 on July 16, 2016, 08:23:19 AM
The guitar and pickup positions have quite an influence on the timbre of the sound this unit produces. Patches needs tweaking to suit your style and input device. I almost always make my own patches to work around being frustrated by things not sounding like they do on other peoples recordings. Pickup switch positions have more influence on the sound than the type of pickup used (at least on my gear).

I agree but the input setting affects so many areas in this synth
I need to wrap my head around it to figure out
how to use it too the fullest effect
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

szilard

A quick tutorial for people who aren't familiar with synths. Envelopes are used to modulate various parameters on synths, the volume, filter(s), and pitch, and possibly others. Traditional analog synths use various envelope generators, the ADSR (attack, decay, sustain, release) being popular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer#Attack_Decay_Sustain_Release_.28ADSR.29_envelope

The SY-300 doesn't have envelope generators, instead it uses envelope followers - the envelope of the volume of a note sounding is followed. The envelope can be modified - the attack, the time it takes to rise, can be slowed, and the decay, the time it takes to lower, can be hastened. Since the SY-300 is using envelope followers the input sensitivity is very important. How strong the signal is determines the amount that the envelope effects various parameters. If the input sensitivity is too low there won't be much effect on filters and pitch.

Try it.

In tone studio Initialize a patch. Select the Filter/Amp tab and set the filter type for osc 1 to LPF and filter slope to -24 dB. Select Input Sens and adjust it so the volume only raises the lines about 1/4 of the way up or less. Close Input Sens. Play a couple notes and then increase the filter env depth to +25 and then +50. There shouldn't be much effect. Set it back to 0. Select Input Sens and adjust it so the volume raises the lines up to the bottom of the gray bar at the top of the display and close the window. Play a couple notes and then increase the filter env depth to +25 and then +50. It should sound brighter now.

If you set filter env depth to 0 the env should not effect the filter. As you increase the env depth in the positive direction as the volume increases the filter cutoff and resonance increase and decrease as the volume decreases. It should sound like a wah. If you set the env depth in the negative direction as the volume increases the filter cutoff and resonance decrease and increase as the volume decreases. The negative direction inverts the envelope.

If you go to the Wave/Pitch tab you will notice that there is a pitch env depth as well.




chrish

I've said this before but i hit the inputs hard with a preamp line level into a mixer. Then send it to the sy input. The meters on the sy peak out, and the synth sounds are ready to explode, then i back off a bit on the picking dynamics. Hitting the sy inputs with other audio signals works great and gives the sy a complex waveform to deal with. If that complex waveform also modulates, that creates a nice effect also. One example of that would be inputting the wave sequences on the korg wavestation into the sy, with or without the guitar or a vocal pad and or a bass patch from the vg8. Yea, the sy may not be able to handle it, but i enjoy that sound also. Mix it up, scramble it, and see what happens. Soon a vg99 will hit my door step and i'll be slaming that into the sy. If the sy won't play clean, hit it with a bunch of dirt.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: szilard on July 17, 2016, 03:01:26 PM
A quick tutorial for people who aren't familiar with synths.

I am , ever since mini moog and korg ms 20
But the input sensivity affects more than these parameters.
Some that I haven't got a grip on yet.
It's like the GR300 on the VG 99 that comes alive at much higher input than
The other patches.
same phenomena here but more complex
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

szilard

Quote from: Brak(E)man on July 18, 2016, 05:30:29 AM
I am , ever since mini moog and korg ms 20
But the input sensivity affects more than these parameters.

Please specify and write up a quick procedure to demonstrate. As has been pointed out the documentation on the SY-300 is lacking.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: szilard on July 18, 2016, 10:22:04 AM
Please specify and write up a quick procedure to demonstrate. As has been pointed out the documentation on the SY-300 is lacking.

I'm sorry but I'm not 100 what youre asking me to do
Could you specify ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

rolandvg99

Too much input and it wacks the pitch and filter envelopes to uncontrollable.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

szilard

Quote from: Brak(E)man on July 18, 2016, 11:39:36 AM
I'm sorry but I'm not 100 what youre asking me to do
Could you specify ?

You wrote "But the input sensivity affects more than these parameters.".

Can you specify what other parameters are affected by the input sensitivity besides the envelopes/envelope depth parameters? If so can you also write up a short description of how to demonstrate it as I did above?

As I said in my post it was "A quick tutorial for people who aren't familiar with synths." If people want to understand what Input Sens does I suspect they will come to this thread, that is why I posted what I did. If it effects other parameters it seems like a good idea to list them here as well.

Brak(E)man

The problem is that input settings affects the sound in a way that can't be explained
as a normal synth parameter pattern.
You're description is correct but the setting
affects other aspects of the sound, and I'm trying to figure out how.
If I could list them it wouldn't be a problem.
But what I've found is what I described.
The sound change a lot with different settings
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch