Hex version of normal pickup

Started by 99sense, April 03, 2009, 09:43:04 PM

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99sense

Has anyone ever made a hex pickup that replaced a standard pickup
in the normal pickup locations? (not necessarily for a VG-99)

vanceg

Quote from: 99sense on April 03, 2009, 09:43:04 PM
Has anyone ever made a hex pickup that replaced a standard pickup
in the normal pickup locations? (not necessarily for a VG-99)

Yes- Absolutely.  They aren't very common, but they were surely made.  I have a pair of Bartolini Humbuckers which each have 6 separate outputs.  They sound absolutely wonderful. 

There are some issues, though, with trying to do this:  Since normal pickups are not places RIGHT at the bridge (as the GKs are) they tend to suffer more from crosstalk between strings, especially when bending strings.  That's not such a bad thing, though, when you actually use them....unless you are trying to drive a VG-99 with them...which is not at all recommended (though I have done it).  The other issue is:  When you want to use the guitar as a mono or even stereo output, you essentially need a mixer on  board the guitar (or run to an external mixer) because just combining the signals of the multiple string outputs leads to some significant changes in the impedence, and therefore tone. 

On the guitar I have, what I did was set it up with a mulitple position rotary switch which lets me switch between several modes: Mono out, Stereo out with the strings panned L/L/L/R/R/R, Stereo out with the strings panned L/R/L/R/L/R, and 6 channel out.

Then I also have pickup selection switches for EACH STRING - yes, for each string: you can select from bridge or neck pickup on a per-string basis.  I went with this approach basically because I couldn't find the 6X SPDT switch that I wanted, but WOW what a great choice this was.  I can't express how very powerful it is to be able to select which pickup is being used for each string:  You can achieve SUCH clear, ringing chord voicings this way - it's really stunning how effective this is. I had no idea.  It is sort of like a capability that the VB-99 and V-Bass have (and I wish the VG-99 had) where each POLE PIECE for the each pickup can be moved up and down the neck (the VG-99 and VG-88 only let you tilt/slant the pickup. Bummer).

anyway - I hope to feature this guitar on the excellent "building the ergonomic guitar" blog soon.  I'll try to remember to post an announcement when that goes up.

The guitar may even be up for sale within the next couple of months (I LOVE it, but I simply MUST sell some gear!).

Vance

vanceg

Quote from: 99sense on April 03, 2009, 09:43:04 PM
Has anyone ever made a hex pickup that replaced a standard pickup
in the normal pickup locations? (not necessarily for a VG-99)

Beyond the Bartolini pickups that I mention in the other posting in this thread, Copeland made Hex pickups in the 80s.  These are the two most "common" ones that I know about.  I have recently seen a very odd looking hex pickup which was identified to me as being from the mid 1970s....clearly a production unit, but not like anything I have seen before or since - Looks a lot like a GK3 in that it is small and intended to be placed near the nut, and has an odd 6 pin connector on it....I'll try to find more out about it, when I have time. 

Here is a link for the Copleland pickups.  http://www.marksmart.net/gearhack/jazzpedalboard/copeland.html

I have never seen the Copeland pickups for sale anywhere, though. I believe they long since went off the market - but I honestly don't have any good resources on them...


vanceg

#3
Well how about this:  Since I last looked at the site listed below which described the Copeland pickups, they have added a link to another blog in which some current Hex pickups are discussed.

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2008/08/six-output-pickups-for-stereo-guitars.html
http://www.marksmart.net/gearhack/jazzpedalboard/copeland.html

Quote from: vanceg on April 10, 2009, 07:21:29 PM
Beyond the Bartolini pickups that I mention in the other posting in this thread, Copeland made Hex pickups in the 80s.  These are the two most "common" ones that I know about.  I have recently seen a very odd looking hex pickup which was identified to me as being from the mid 1970s....clearly a production unit, but not like anything I have seen before or since - Looks a lot like a GK3 in that it is small and intended to be placed near the nut, and has an odd 6 pin connector on it....I'll try to find more out about it, when I have time. 

Here is a link for the Copleland pickups.  http://www.marksmart.net/gearhack/jazzpedalboard/copeland.html

I have never seen the Copeland pickups for sale anywhere, though. I believe they long since went off the market - but I honestly don't have any good resources on them...



99sense

Thanks! Some interesting stuff there.
Possibly they are available at ubertar.com if that site is not out of date.

vanceg


aliensporebomb

The Kramer Ripley was an interesting guitar that Steve Ripley designed, it consisted of a single Bartolini
humbucking pickup and there were six panpots on the lower bout of the guitar that allowed you to use
it as a hex guitar.

I really, really wanted one of those things (I had a Roland GR system before that) but became unemployed
shortly after putting a down payment on the thing back in the late 1980s and had to give it up.  Never did
see another one.

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

vanceg

I spotted a couple of those Bartolinis on Ebay a couple of years ago and snatched them up - put them in one of my Ergonomic shaped guitars. It now has a multi position switch to control the stereo outs of each string, and a front/rear pickup selector for EACH string (which is much cooler than I ever thought it would be).

I've recently been in touch with the fellow from Ubetar and I'm considering trying out (just for fun) using one of his pickups with the VG-99.  I don't suspect that we'll be wanting to move from using the GK-series pickups with the VG-99...but it's a thought!

Vance


Quote from: aliensporebomb on April 21, 2009, 04:59:24 AM
The Kramer Ripley was an interesting guitar that Steve Ripley designed, it consisted of a single Bartolini
humbucking pickup and there were six panpots on the lower bout of the guitar that allowed you to use
it as a hex guitar.

I really, really wanted one of those things (I had a Roland GR system before that) but became unemployed
shortly after putting a down payment on the thing back in the late 1980s and had to give it up.  Never did
see another one.



aliensporebomb

There's a guy at the harmony central forum named bbreaker who is quite famous for his large
guitar collection.

Anyway, when Kramer was going out of business he ended up going crazy buying up a lot of
brand new guitars and he ended up getting a black Kramer Ripley.  The one I was looking at
was green.  Only the 2nd I'd ever heard anyone getting.

Apparently Van Halen used the Ripley on one song and the really slick thing is you could
make certain notes appear at certain positions in the stereo spectrum.  I suppose if you
were ambitious you could use six amps in a circle surrounding an audience for surround
sound but it just shows there are a lot of ways one could go to create a "wall of sound".
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

Quotethe really slick thing is you could make certain [strings] appear at certain positions in the stereo spectrum.

FWIW - the Gibson Dark Fire does this - and it connects to the VG-99 too. 

germanicus

Sustainiac:

What the going price for a dark fire plus the necessary gk adaptor cable?
Whats the advantage of using a dark fire with the vg99?

Its piezo based correct? I ask because Im disappointed with using piezo's to drive the 99. Its doesnt sound right to me and Im hesistant to install the jack plate. I know parker released a new midi fly with an integrated gk pickup, but havent seen many other 'high end' guitars with gk's.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Elantric

#11
AltoMusic.com about $3K



New shipments will occur in June - its a limited 4K total run.


Its the only factory guitar that allows you to run 6 instances of Guitar RIG ( one per string)  under Ableton Live on a Macbook pro ( you need one of those to take full advantage of Dark Fire)

Using the Dark Fire with the VG-99, I set GK Pickup type as "Piezo-L" (because it had the best warmth and natural bandwidth with Dark Fire ), and I set string sensitivity to "40"  for each string.

Only issue with Dark Fire - there are no typical GK-3A controls - "S1, S2", etc. 
http://www.marksmart.net/gearhack/jazzpedalboard/copeland.html
Alternatives to the Copeland Hex Pickup
QuoteOS Music Technology
Olle Svensson from OS Music Technology makes hex pickups with a hex distortion circuit built in! I just received a custom pickup from him very similar to the Copeland, but it appears to have better isolation between strings. I will post some pics and sound samples once I get it mounted in a guitar for real testing.
[/i]

Paul Rubenstein
Musician/educator Paul Rubenstein is now making some hex pickups.(UberTar
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13405.0



 

vanceg

Yeah, this is exactly what I do (or I should say, "used to do") = Connect 5 powered speakers to the guitar - one to each string. Arrange speakers in surround.  Nowadays I just send all 6 channels into the laptop, and then pan each one in surround.  It's the way fo the future.   Note that the VG-99 could theoretically do this, very easily - if that USB port wasn't limited to doing 2 channels, one could (in theory) run each channel into the laptop directly from the VG-99.  The fact that the VG-99 won't do this is my #1 largest disappointment with it....but...Oh well....Roland never said it WOULD do this ;-)

Van ce

Quote from: aliensporebomb on April 21, 2009, 12:15:14 PM
There's a guy at the harmony central forum named bbreaker who is quite famous for his large
guitar collection.

Anyway, when Kramer was going out of business he ended up going crazy buying up a lot of
brand new guitars and he ended up getting a black Kramer Ripley.  The one I was looking at
was green.  Only the 2nd I'd ever heard anyone getting.

Apparently Van Halen used the Ripley on one song and the really slick thing is you could
make certain notes appear at certain positions in the stereo spectrum.  I suppose if you
were ambitious you could use six amps in a circle surrounding an audience for surround
sound but it just shows there are a lot of ways one could go to create a "wall of sound".

jack22

#13
Hey,

I have a Roland GK-2a and a Ubertar's breakout box for it. At the moment the GK-2a is getting power from 2 9v batteries. I was considering trying to supply power from AC. I'm very much a beginner when it comes to electronics, so I wanted to make sure what I was thinking isn't likely to damage anything.

So the Ubertar box wires pins 1-6 on the Roland cable as 1/4 inch line-outs, and other than that it just attaches 2 9v batteries wired to produce dual polarity like so:



The +9v goes to pin 12, and -9v goes to pin 13.

Could I use 2 matched 9v dc adapters in place of the batteries in the above setup? Assuming they allow enough mA and I reverse the polarity to emulate a battery.

Is there a simple approach to get power to the GK? I've read a bit into getting dual polarity through mosfet chips, or instead biasing the op amp inputs, but that is likely above my skill level at the moment.

Thanks.

gumtown

I can't find anything in a single unit for your requirements,
so 2 x 9volt DC (regulated) connected just as you have with the batteries will do it.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

mercury1

#15
I was wondering if anyone has used the ubertar pickups on their bass. I was thinking about getting four of the individual coils and mounting them just in front of the saddles on my bridge. They are said to work passive with just the gk13 jack which would be ok seeing I could use the gr55 volume pedal and patch buttons for controls. Also if they do work, what would be the pinout for a four string bass?

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2008/08/six-output-pickups-for-stereo-guitars.html
http://ubertar.com/instruments/
Gr-55, Gr-33, Gr-1, Vg-88, Jamman looper, Brian More 88.13  ,/ 8.13 , Fender hm strat( gk-3 ), Hammer( int gk-2) , Behringer V-ampire Lx1200 / fcb1010

nix808

Heya,
be careful not to give them any power with Roland gear

Paul is very good to deal with, I would shoot him a mail, as he will be able to tell you whether this is possible.

I have a query on the amplitude of the Ubertar being close enough to GK
Rock and Rock my boat, as long as you don't rock and rock my boat!hehe

vanceg

Quote from:  mercury1 on June 20, 2016, 06:45:54 PM
I was wondering if anyone has used the ubertar pickups on their bass. I was thinking about getting four of the individual coils and mounting them just in front of the saddles on my bridge. They are said to work passive with just the gk13 jack which would be ok seeing I could use the gr55 volume pedal and patch buttons for controls. Also if they do work, what would be the pinout for a four string bass?

You might also consider the CycFi NuMulti pickups. These are nice because they sound fantastic, and you can combine the signal from multiple pickups easily if you want to run them in mono into a regular amp.   They are active, so they require power.

http://www.cycfi-research.com/

Ubertar does do some cool work.  I have a set of his standard hex pickups that I was going to install in a guitar and never got around to it.

admin

#18
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18832.msg135537#msg135537

Unlike the GK pickups, mine go in regular pickup cases (no-holes strat single style or no-holes plastic humbucker style). They're standard sizes and directly replace stock pickups in most guitars. I can make them in other style cases also. They're not set to a radius, they're flat to the inside top of the case, but that's never been an issue. They should be set as close to the strings as possible, for best separation and strongest output.

But if you want something that mounts between the strings and body, and not in a pickup cavity, I can do a set of "little torpedoes" to an inline 7 or 13 pin jack. Then you can set the spacing and heights individually. I recommend poster putty for adjustability. You can switch to epoxy putty if you want to make it permanent. Another option that's not yet on my site is a set of "tiny torpedoes", the same thing but smaller. A set of those as close to the bridge as possible will give you the best possible separation. The output level is less than the little torpedoes, though.
http://ubertar.com/hexaphonic/one_and_two_string_pickups.html

whippinpost91850


Sonnec

This seems the best kept secret regarding pickups. Nothing in search. This product excites me. He also makes breakout boxes.

www.ubertar.com/hexaphonic

Elantric

#21
Quote from:  Sonnec on December 05, 2017, 08:18:00 PM
This seems the best kept secret regarding pickups. Nothing in search. This product excites me. He also makes breakout boxes.

www.ubertar.com/hexaphonic


Ubertar Pickups
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13405.msg98177#msg98177

http://bfy.tw/FPmx


[/img]

Rhcole

Nice guy. I spoke with him last year. He's willing to do custom work, etc.

vanceg

#23
I've got a couple of his humbuckers.  Installed one in an instrument (since sold) about a decade ago and have another at the shop.  Nice stuff.  Very "rustic" build quality. Entirely solid and functional, but not fit and finish is a little rough.  I like the aesthetic, myself.

Ubertar has been around for a while and has been a supporter of many a creative guitar project.

My personal assessment is that if I was using hex pickups with modeling or pitch to MIDI, then I'd go for a pickup that I can put as close to the bridge as possible and has the max string separation.  So far the GK-3 and Cycfi pickups seem to be great options for that.  But I might use the Ubertar if I was going to simply put the Hex pickup at the neck or standard bridge position and I wasn't doing modeling or Pitch to MIDI.

My 2c.

Sonnec

@Elantric: the lack of search results may have been a glitch and I didn't follow it up, or a mis-spelling I didn't notice.

@Rhcole: his site says he's not doing custom work right now. I'm waiting to hear back from him on some basic questions.

@vanceg: my interest is in traditional pick-up functionality that is hex, though. Are there different designs for neck and bridge? For the latter, what would it compare to in output and sound?