Line6 is unveiling "Helix"...

Started by guitarno, June 11, 2015, 12:48:24 PM

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alexmcginness

Quote from: Elantric on June 11, 2015, 01:17:52 PM
FWIW - I know Thomas Nordegg is working with Line-6, and emphatically told them to employ similar ergonomic capabilities of the RJM MasterMind GTFootcontroler - with Color Displays and separate LCD screens per pedal

http://www.rjmmusic.com/mastermind.php



and this is nice too  - 800 x 600 Color LCD Display reminds me of the new NI / Akai Keyboards


   What good are color displays to the color blind?
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

gumtown

Quote from: alexmcginness on June 12, 2015, 04:47:15 AM
   What good are color displays to the color blind?
They make your friends envious.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

supernicd

Holy smokes - never guessed L6 was cooking this up. The UI and I/O look like a dream come true.  Hope it sounds just as good!
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

mbenigni

#28
It's funny that they don't call more attention to this, but the routing displayed on the LCD in some of those pictures implies that you can run a full effects chain for your vocals, in parallel with your guitar.  Really useful stuff.  I wonder how well the looper(s) integrate guitar and vocals.

Does anyone have an estimated ship date on this thing?

aliensporebomb

It only was one sound though!  And not much in the way of clean sounds.  It sounded like the VG99 factory preset with the univibe and delay - that Trower thing that they must have spent 5 minutes programming - could have been a lot better.  Is there any other demos of sounds it produces? 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

mbenigni

QuoteThe UI and I/O look like a dream come true.

Agreed.  The only missed opportunity:  a touch screen in place of that LCD would have been nice.  Not as a replacement for the physical knobs (which are great) but to complement them - e.g. for dragging and dropping effects within a chain.  (That's something that I find much faster and more intuitive in an iPad app then on any h/w device I've owned.)

aliensporebomb

#31
I saw a menu option for "harmony feedback".  I wonder how the pitch transposition fares?  I see that there's "guitar in" which is mono but you could use the "returns" as a stereo input from amother preamp or device. 

I presume "1/4" OUT" is the stereo effected final signal. 

I'd like to see what the Variax input really gets you - I presume if you have a Variax equipped axe you're golden. 

All of the jacks on the left appear to be for external expression pedals and external amp control.. 

"AUX IN" - you could plug a playback device into that and jam along I presume? 

The 8-in/8-out USB would be awfully nice for recording but I presume this is USB3 not USB2 - but if an iPad can handle 8-in/8-out my old iMac i7 sure should be able to.  Musing. 

This could be one heck of a "Hey Roland, wake up".  I wouldn't mind playing with something like this.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

thebrushwithin


Elantric

My experience with Line-6 Amp sims, they tend to be Cold and brittle, and need effort to take these tendencies into warm squish dynamic response land of the superior tones and feel of a Kemper , BIAS or Fender Mustang Amp, or the Korg engineered old Vox Tonelab  and recent  Blackstar DSP.

It's USB 2.0 Class Compliant,  and even the iPad with Auria DAW will see Helix as 8 in / 8 out interface. In typical Line 6 fashion the MIDI I/O I expect to be clobbered and not available for full MIDI messages from IOS Apps.

Not everyone is color blind, else we would still be using Green Screen Display Terminals. Buts it's true on pulsing well lit stages Color indicators do get washed out fast

guitarno

Quote from: Elantric on June 11, 2015, 03:23:58 PM
Hmm - thats Quite possible, let me explore  that.

I definitely would be in on a group buy for this if you can arrange one! I was thinking about putting in a pre-order for this from Sweetwater, but it sure would be great to get some kind of price break. I don't normally like to be an early adopter until I have seen some positive independent reviews, and the early "bugs" have been worked out, but this has me stoked. There may be a lot of marketing hype in this launch, but it sure has a lot of great features, and if it sounds as good as it looks, I'm all in.  8)
Suhr Classic Pro SSS, PRS Hollowbody II Piezo, Breedlove Oregon Concerto E, Fractal FM3, Mesa Boogie LoneStar Special

mbenigni

QuoteI definitely would be in on a group buy for this if you can arrange one! I was thinking about putting in a pre-order for this from Sweetwater, but it sure would be great to get some kind of price break. I don't normally like to be an early adopter until I have seen some positive independent reviews, and the early "bugs" have been worked out, but this has me stoked. There may be a lot of marketing hype in this launch, but it sure has a lot of great features, and if it sounds as good as it looks, I'm all in.

I feel the same way - this is the first time I've ever considered pre-ordering hardware.  I'm not much for the "I'll gladly pay you today for a cheeseburger next Tuesday" thing, but yeah, this looks like a lot of solutions in one box.

But common sense prevails and I'll wait for a hands-on opportunity, find all the gotchas... and, of course, see if there's a significant discount available anywhere else.

Chumly

#36
Hmm... I've been tempted by both the Kemper and the Axe-Fx II for quite some time but have not purchased either of them due to their high price and somewhat exclusive / proprietary nature, plus no all-in-one floor unit.

However Line 6 gear is as common and easily available as Levi's jeans, and has an all-in-one floor unit plus as some have mentioned it appears to be aimed squarely at both the Kemper and Axe-Fx II.

I'd be willing to bet it will sound comparable to both the Kemper and the Axe-Fx II and will have its own unique set of functions and there will be no clear winner between the three; but for me if I was to buy one of them it would probably be the Helix.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

thebrushwithin

QuoteLine-6 Amp sims, they tend to be Cold and brittle

Yes, I agree, and so far, I'm not enamored with what little I've heard. Great layout, although it looks very large.

Elantric

#38
With the USB Audio Re-amping feature, its totally possible to skip the Line6 Amp sims and use Helix as an iPad Audio Interface for Positive Grid BIAS / BIAS FX - but there are cheaper iPad Interface solutions. 

I'm not too thrilled with any sound demos of Helix yet -

But I wonder how many here would think differently if Helix  wore a "Yamaha" Badge ?

Chumly

#39
I find it difficult to believe that an assessment of Helix's amp modeling (let alone all the other goodies) can be accurately made via a few YouTubes or the like. I'm reserving judgment however I would bet it's flexible enough to meet a lot of sonic tastes.

Recall that even the venerable first-generation Line 6 Pod is still used by Pete Anderson and some perspective is in order.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Elantric

#40
QuoteI find it difficult to believe that an assessment of Helix's amp modeling (let alone all the other goodies) can be accurately made via a few YouTubes or the like.

Agreed - But I'm not expecting much  - the real test will be one on one quality time with the Helix   


By Contrast  - these Kemper youtube videos sold me on the Kemper, which I ordered based solely on the sounds here:





Chumly

Interesting, what was it that sold you? There was a lot of talking and room ambiance and a guy playing a tele of some description.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Elantric

#42
True - the recording is clipped and NOT the best audio quality, but I could totally hear the Kemper deliver and reproduce that glassy Vox  / Matchless EL84 Class A tube amp "squish", based upon these videos.
And after taking delivery of my Kemper, after spending one on one quality time with the KPA, it totally matched or exceeded my expectations.

While my Line 6 gear collects dust. ( I still love my SonicPort VX for iPad Audio I/O

Get a drink and snack and read the whole Kemper thread here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3331.0

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3331.msg38412#msg38412


Let me make this clear - I'm NOT a Metal head, and rarely use or need metal tones Instead I'm seeking Allan Holsdworth sound with Tony Williams Lifetime, or Sonny Landreth  / Derek Trucks singing sustain. -- IMHO in 2015 , even the little Boss GT-001, GP-10, and GT-100 deliver better Amp sims that outclass bulk of the Line-6 Amp Modeling efforts for the "punchy clean / mid gain tube amp on the verge of breakup with high touch response" tones.  -I A/B them all the time, and the line 6 gear typically reacts more like an On/off switch.


mbenigni

#43
Quote from: Chumly on June 12, 2015, 11:23:32 AM
Recall that even the venerable first-generation Line 6 Pod is still used by Pete Anderson and some perspective is in order.

True enough - but personally I think the first generation POD (and 2.0) sounded much better than the Vetta and PODxt generation.  Something went off the rails with that generation of "improvements".  Everyone complained about their early products being too dark, but I think they pulled the low-pass filter off (or raised its frequencies) before they got that upper content sounding right in the xt/Vetta models.  That's when things got "cold and brittle" to me.

The very brief time I spent with an HD400 seemed to me like a big improvement over my Vetta, though (even though that doesn't seem to be the consensus here).  So I'm hopeful that they've done their homework and gotten the core amp sims right this time, but we'll have to wait and see.  The recording quality in that Sweetwater demo is pretty bad - he cycles through microphone models, for instance, and I can barely tell the difference.  And Line 6 is too hung up on high gain and modulation in their own demo, which isn't surprising - this has been their bread and butter for years.  It's similar to Roland's obsession with chorus - always front and center and edging out functionality that most would consider more important by now, but the shadow of the JC120 etc. looms large.

Elantric

QuoteFair enough - but personally I think the first generation POD (and 2.0) sounded much better than the Vetta and PODxt generation.

Same opinion here - Even Brad Paisley was using a POD 2.0 with a Vox AC30 and Fender Twin for while

I attended the 2000 Jazzfest in New Orleans and I was surprised that many bands played thru the same "House Guitar Rig" - comprised of a POD +FloorBoard into a Fender Twin. - yet each artist still sounded great 

thebrushwithin

Speaking of brittle, I have always wondered if the guys setting up these patches and demos, aren't making things way too bright, simply because their hearing has suffered much, over the years, due to high volumes.

Elantric

QuoteI have always wondered if the guys setting up these patches and demos, aren't making things way too bright, simply because their hearing has suffered much, over the years, due to high volumes.

Exactly!

http://www.hear-it.org/MP3-players-put-teens-at-risk-of-early-hearing-loss

mordecai

Cold and brittle is a good term for a lot of the amps. When used with a DT25 though it all disappears into a superb tone. Wish I still had my ToneLab to compare with the HD500 but sadly it's long gone. For me I just know Line 6 and like using it. Just like I like Logic Pro X/Mainstage 3 over any other DAW. I can make it sound great because I know it's strengths and weaknesses. If I can apply the same HD series knowledge to Helix it'll be a win for me. But yes I do agree that only listening to video clips is really a poor way to totally jump on a product bandwagon, but then again I like being excited over gear and so I'll hop on for the ride for now. The "feel" is the big thing and if the IR stuff coming into play I think this will be a good fit. If I sell the DT25, HD500, and VL3 I'd be well on my way for one of these units but I don't really know if I want to jump that hard just yet. DT25, HD500, FX150, and VL3 with do all I need period as it is, connecting to FOH that is. I think these guys continually try to bring good stuff to us just wondering if the group of Line6er that went over to form Strymon team helped at all with this or if they left Line6 for good. 

Elantric

#48
Quote. I can make it sound great because I know it's strengths and weaknesses.

Essential for all tools we use!

Quotejust wondering if the group of Line6er that went over to form Strymon team helped at all with this or if they left Line6 for good.

I highly doubt Dave Fruehling (DamageControl ,Strymon) will step back into a Line-6 building now that he's been co-designing the Strymon gear for past 10 years.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10129.msg73075#msg73075
Quotein my opinion Line-6's troubles occurred back in 2004, when bulk of the Line6 grunt core engineering department departed to form Damage Control / Strymon.

(covered here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9392.msg67586#msg67586

mbenigni

Quote from: Elantric on June 12, 2015, 11:52:56 AM
Same opinion here - Even Brad Paisley was using a POD 2.0 with a Vox AC30 and Fender Twin for while

I attended the 2000 Jazzfest in New Orleans and I was surprised that many bands played thru the same "House Guitar Rig" - comprised of a POD +FloorBoard into a Fender Twin. - yet each artist still sounded great

I've still got my trusty old Flextone II and I'm always surprised when I plug it in.  For all the time I spend chasing my tail... I actually had a perfectly functional rig 15 years ago.  I typically ran a POD 2 Pro into the effects return of the Flextone - somehow that sounded better than the Flextone alone, even though the preamp was theoretically equivalent. Maybe I was just hitting the return a little hotter than the internal routing did.