Boss GP-10 MIDI I/O on Android 4.4.4

Started by Spider, July 16, 2014, 12:31:51 PM

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supernicd

#25
There has to be something to this.  The Nexus 7 doesn't contain "magic" and I'm sure Android 4.4 wasn't the special Boss GP-10 version. :)

I still have some hope!
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Spider

Another test: GP-10 working with Xperia Z with Android 4.4.3.

Orren Merton

#27
This is a really interesting thread! I didn't jump on the Boss GP-10 group buy, just in case. But if there's even a *chance* that is pretty exciting. Maybe what we're seeing is that the basic firmware for the GP-10 to be class compliant is there but quirky, and right now only the Nexus 7 can take advantage of it—but an update will be needed for across the board class compliance?

Dunno, but I think I'll be jumping in!

Orren

whippinpost91850

#28
Quote from:  Elantric
***** -Wow - Good work - TEN STARS to you my friend!  *****

Wow! Thias is awesome NEWS. But if this is truly the case I just spent some more money!!!!! Yippeee

Ps. Elantric do you really feel the guitar models are better then the JTVs ?

Elantric

#29
QuotePs. Elantric do you really feel the guitar models are better [on Boss GP-10] then the Tyler JTVs ?

Yes - Significantly

Read this recent review by mateomasfeo  - it matches my own Boss GP-10 experience

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11506.msg85876#msg85876

whippinpost91850

#30
Cool will hit the group buy after dinner  8)

Now_And_Then

#31
 Sorry if this seems a naive question, but as an inveterate WinXP user, does the fact that the GP-10 is MIDI class compliant mean anything to me? 

admin

#32
Actually we are still evaluating the Boss GP-10 for USB class compliance, the jury is out and nothing to announce yet.

As a Win XP user , you have nothing of interest here. Roland already has released Win XP USB driver and Boss GP-10 Tone Studio Editor for Win XP so " move along, nothing to see here".

carlb

#33
This is potentially good news for folks who:

1) Want to run midi-based control pedals and expression pedals - without needing a host computer to do the conversion.
2) Want to run a patch editor with a tablet (Android and perhaps Apple, Windows tablet should already work).

I'm hoping!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

#34
Here with all my USB Class Compliant test methods, with Android Tablets, Ipads , powered USB Hubs, iConnectMIDI, etc, -  I must sadly report in regards to "MIDI I/O over USB" (USB Class Compliant testing)  with  my Boss GP-10 I'm not seeing ANY MIDI I/O. Nothing , zip, nada, zero data

"He's dead Jim



I do not have access to an Android 4.4.4 KitKat device with USB OTG Adapter as Spider say's that setup worked for him straight away with his Boss GP-10 - Which makes me consider buying a small Android Nexus 7,  if that path actually works as Spider claims: (maybe its slow day and I fail to see the humor in this thread.)




I encourage anyone else to try and prove me wrong - please! 

Because even with my best powered USB Hubs,  all I still get is this screen below anytime I try to make the Boss GP-10 Connection  with my iPad:


RHCole wrote>
QuoteFirst attempt with Kenton USB Host FAILED, no sound.

Cross-checked with the FTP, everything else (synths, cables) works.

Will try again later but it looks doubtful for the Kenton USB to 5 pin MIDI.

I confirm same experience here - Boss GP-10 connected to USB Host port on iConnectMIDI or iConnectMIDI 4+, I get nothing, no MIDI Output.

Only after I swapped out the Boss GP-10 for  a  Fishman Tripleplay did both iConnectMIDI interfaces begin to  work and output MIDI data. 

BackDAWman

Damn! Just ordered one. Here's hoping there will be success in the future...

Spider

No sucess with Arduino USB Host.
No problem with another Android 4.4.3 (!) tablet. So.. key is Android 4.4.3/4 .

Spider

Problem is that at this moment measured latency for FTP and Android synth is ca. 70-80 ms on Nexus 7.

supernicd

Thank you guys for all of this testing!

By my "figuring", Roland must have intended for the GP-10 to have a class compliant MIDI USB.  Barring that there's some VGuitar fanatic at Google who got an early prototype of a GP-10 and slipped the driver code for this one specific device into Android, then it wouldn't work there either unless it was class-compliant.

So I'm thinking it must be something in the way the device reports itself to the host.  Some bit of the class compliant spec that iOS is particular about and that Android 4.3/4.4 is not.

Assuming the above is true and my logic is sound, I would think this could be resolved in a firmware release.  Maybe it's time to petition Roland for a bug fix?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Spider

It looks like for some reason GP-10 MIDI in/out works with Android 4.4.3 and 4.4.4, And it isn't dependent on apps but on OS version.

Now_And_Then

Quote from: admsustainiac on July 16, 2014, 08:07:47 PM
As a Win XP user , you have nothing of interest here.

I thank you for not making my life any more complicated than it already is.

:)

Elantric

#41
QuoteIt looks like for some reason GP-10 MIDI in/out works with Android 4.4.3 and 4.4.4, And it isn't dependent on apps but on OS version.

Spider - thanks for the update

i assume you are using a latest "Gen2 Nexus 7 ?

Snapdragon S4 Pro Quad-Core 1.5GHz, 2GB RAM, 32GB storage
7" 1920 x 1200 IPS (323 ppi), 802.11b/g/n, 10 hr. battery life


This also appears to be device dependent  - because My November 2012 era Samsung Galazy Note 2 running Android 4.3 and official Samsung USB OTG Adapter  does NOT work with Boss GP-10.

So here's a possible path that can work  for remote GP-10 control, and patch change

TouchDaw Running on Sony Xperia or Nexux 7 running Android 4.4.x or newer.

http://www.humatic.de/htools/touchdaw/


TouchDAW is a full-featured DAW control and general purpose MIDI control app for Android™ tablets and phones. It allows you to tweak a large set of parameters in popular digital audio workstations as accessible through standard hardware control surfaces.

Version 1.5.1  [Release Notes]  has dedicated support for Cubase / Nuendo, Live, Logic, Pro Tools, Sonar, FL Studio, Reason, REAPER, Studio One, Samplitude, SAWStudio, Digital Performer, Acid/Vegas, Tracktion and Bitwig workstations. Standard functionality in other DAWs with basic MCU support will be accessible alike.


Besides control surface emulation, the app brings a number of general purpose MIDI controllers, such as a multitouch keyboard, multitouch launchpads, a MIDI mixer, configureable xy-controller pads and the possibility to link a phone's sensors to MIDI controllers.

TouchDAW works with RTP or multicast MIDI over WIFI. Later versions added support for USB, wired LAN and - given the hardware supports USB host mode - class-compliant MIDI interfaces. It is directly compatible with Apple's Network MIDI implementation in Mac OS X, native RTP MIDI implementations for Windows and ipMIDI. For most connection methods there is no computer side server or protocol conversion software required.



http://www.humatic.de/htools/touchdaw/manual.htm




The app is available from the Play Store in a full featured paid and a limited free version. It will work on devices running Android version 2.2 or higher and supports screen sizes from 320*240 pixels up to 2560*1600 pixels. Whether you will be shown the tablet or the phone interface depends on device characteristics. Rule of thumb:

Screen >= 1024*600 mdpi - tablet layout
Otherwise - phone interface

Some small tablets and xhdpi phones can use either the tablet or phone layout. In case this is supported on your hardware you will find an extra option at Setup / Global (Requires restarting the app to take effect).



There are reports that MIDI Designer will be ported over to  Android
http://mididesigner.com/why-ios/

---

EDIT:  Read:

Boss GP-10 - How to implement 5 pin MIDI I/O with Raspberry Pi
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0

FrugalGuitarist

#42
NEXUS 7 now on wish list...

EDIT: My Galaxy S3 has 4.4.2. Let me see if I can grab one of those adapters and try it out this evening.

Elantric

#43
Quote
EDIT: My Galaxy S3 has 4.4.2. Let me see if I can grab one of those adapters and try it out this evening.

I look forward to your report!

FWIW - on my Samsung Galaxy Note2, the "generic USB OTG adapter never worked,



I had to get the "official Samsung USB OTG adapter "before anything woke up and smelled the coffee"  and started working.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Media-peripheral-Adapter-Galaxy/dp/B005LGUCYM/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1405618498&sr=1-4&keywords=Samsung+USB+OTG+adapter


For those new to this  thread - my  Samsung Galaxy Note2 on AT&T can only go up to Android 4.3 and i know that does NOT work for Boss GP-10 MIDI communications.

carlb

Quote from: SuperNiCd on July 17, 2014, 04:21:18 AM
...
So I'm thinking it must be something in the way the device reports itself to the host.  Some bit of the class compliant spec that iOS is particular about and that Android 4.3/4.4 is not.
...

That seems plausible based upon the extent that it works with Nexus/Android, but is not recognized as a "supported device" for iOS.

It may well be that Roland/Boss started with the MIDI over USB protocols, but didn't think it important to fully implement them.

The problem with Boss/Roland releasing a patched release for this: They'd have to do extensive testing and fixes to claim support for iOS or Android. My guess is they don't feel it to be enough of a profit-maker to persue.

But the good news is: there seems to be enough compliance to allow tweaking of drivers (gotta love open-source) such that an iterative support could be achieved within the VGuitarforums community. This is what we could push ...
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

QuoteBut the good news is: there seems to be enough compliance to allow tweaking of drivers (gotta love open-source) such that an iterative support could be achieved within the VGuitarforums community. This is what we could push ...

You make too many assumptions

Remember in regards to Roland Corp and VguitarForums - we have zero "clout", and Roland actively laughs at our so called" product support" which they consider to be inferior, and based upon egos of "random internet hooligans".

Repeat - VGuitarforums is NOT affiliated with Roland Corp in any shape or manner - we are pure "end users" just trying sort out the best use of a confusing array of gear for modern guitarist.

mbenigni

Quote...based upon egos of "random internet hooligans".

Hey, I resemble that remark!   ;)

FrugalGuitarist

Quote from: Elantric on July 17, 2014, 10:31:45 AM
I look forward to your report!

FWIW - on my Samsung Galaxy Note2, the "generic USB OTG adapter never worked,



I had to get the "official Samsung USB OTG adapter "before anything woke up and smelled the coffee"  and started working.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Media-peripheral-Adapter-Galaxy/dp/B005LGUCYM/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1405618498&sr=1-4&keywords=Samsung+USB+OTG+adapter


For those new to this  thread - my  Samsung Galaxy Note2 on AT&T can only go up to Android 4.3 and i know that does NOT work for Boss GP-10 MIDI communications.

Hmmm...well if a shop on the way home has one, I'll pick it up. If not, may be a few days before I can try anything.

carlb

Steve, I probably didn't make my post clear ...

I'm in agreement with you, a solution here would not involve Roland/Boss. We're on our own here, same as it ever was.

My assumption is that perhaps the Roland/Boss MIDI-over-USB is "relatively compliant," which it seems to be, given Spider's success so far.

If it is, then a developer could start with existing driver code, and begin modding it. Perhaps something along the lines of:

1) Remove the "are you a compliant device?" check (or more simply hardwiring the return to a "Yes").
2) Try things out for the start of functionality, hopefully getting something like Spider is seeing.
3) Iterate more trial fixes and testing cycles in that venerable old coding practice.

My hope is there's a developer in our midsts (or one we could recruit) who could try something like the above out ...
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

#49
QuoteIf it is, then a developer could start with existing driver code, and begin modding it. Perhaps something along the lines of:

1) Remove the "are you a compliant device?" check (or more simply hardwiring the return to a "Yes").
2) Try things out for the start of functionality, hopefully getting something like Spider is seeing.
3) Iterate more trial fixes and testing cycles in that venerable old coding practice.


Problem is implementing that route is not even possible on iPad, unless you jailbreak.

In regards to iPad MIDI control of Boss Gp-10, its the Apple  IOS that presents itself as the "Gatekeeper"  - and has tight controls and IOS will actively block all access to external "non USB Class compliant" devices.

Remember we are running "driverless" - and at the mercy of the Tablet computer's Operating system's USB support.

On Android, its more open, with fewer restrictions, but Android's lack of an equivalent model of "Apple Core Audio /MIDI" that renders higher latency (more geared to hobbyists due to 70-80 milliseconds latency under best circumstances in 2014.     


A bit off topic, but Tonight I will install the official Roland GP-10 USB Driver and Boss Tone Studio on my old 2009 Dell Inspiron Duo convertible 10 inch touchscreen netbook / tablet PC running Win7
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Inspiron-duo-Series.55025.0.html



I'll report my results.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11869.msg86019;topicseen#msg86019