Roland GR-30/33 question: Anyone using one of these for soft synths?

Started by polaris20-fgn, July 14, 2010, 07:39:09 AM

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polaris20-fgn

I'm quite pleased with how this unit (GR-30) is working in terms of tracking with the internal sounds, and I was going to head over to GC today to get a MIDI to USB device for use with soft synths.

Is anyone doing this? How well does it work, in terms of tracking speed/accuracy/glitchyness?

Elantric-fgn

The GR-30 operates on its internal sounds with very low latency, however the MIDI Output adds approx 25ms latency average, and longer for the low strings.
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

shawnb-fgn

I use the DF/GR30/Soft synth combo a lot, and I love it.

My biggest lessons were:
   -  Ensuring that the pitch bend ranges are common between the GR30 and the soft synths.   Unfortunately, the PBRs tend to vary voice by voice on all the presets on the soft synths I have, so this was a bigger issue than it oughtta be.... 
   -  My DF initially had a tendency to bounce out of hex mode and into 'live mode', usually after charging or after it turned itself off.   Then you pick up the guitar and think its midi tracking had gone haywire.   But no, configure the DF to stay in hex mode.  Most important - turn OFF the 'charge after 5 minutes of inactivity' RIP setting.   
   -  Adjusting string sensitivity on the GR30.    I think E & A are down to 2, and D G B & E are all the way down to 1.    The DF signal is hot, and this is needed to reduce crosstalk. 

Once I'd figured these things out, things got much, much smoother.   I use that config all the time now. 

Yes, as Elantric points out, there is a latency issue, and it is not minor...   

Nonetheless, it opens up a ton of new voices & capabilities!    Enjoy!
Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp

polaris20-fgn


shawnb-fgn

I think I need to correct/clarify myself...  Above I state that:
QuoteMy DF initially had a tendency to bounce out of hex mode and into 'live mode', usually after charging or after it turned itself off.   Then you pick up the guitar and think its midi tracking had gone haywire.   But no, configure the DF to stay in hex mode.  Most important - turn OFF the 'charge after 5 minutes of inactivity' RIP setting.

Today, I predominantly stay in hex mode, and the truth is I don't have this issue anymore...   It's possible this was behavior I picked up under the old RIP firmware (5.2.1) that is no longer an issue in 5.5 (???)   Old habits...   

I believe the behavior is:
   - Under 5.2.1, certain activities (charging, changing voices) would knock you out of hex mode.  You'd have to use the MCK to turn hex back on.  This is no longer an issue in 5.5.  This appears to be a benefit of the upgrade.
   - Under 5.5 & the DT firmware, however, you cannot switch back & forth from hex to live mode using the MCK.   You must use the RIP console.   This appears to be a drawback of the upgrade. 

I think folks that want to go back & forth between hex & live modes a lot have a tough time with either version of the firmware.   Lots of unnecessary MCK work in 5.2.1, and dealing with the RIP console in 5.5. 

Shawn
Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp

DF400-fgn

I've used soft synths in combo with my GR-33 with decent results. It has opened up a completely new set of possibilities for me, but there is the latency issues. Not such a big factor for strings or such, but for stabs, keys, and horns I have found that I have to make some minor adjustments when playing live. I agree that the DF is HOT, I have trouble getting the signal down to a workable level. Fun nonetheless...


DF400-fgn


Elantric-fgn

For benefit of 'newbies" to Future Guitar Now, we began this forum in 2009 as a group of disgruntled Gibson Dark Fire owners  ( a Robot / hexaphonic processing capable Les Paul ), to share info and grow our knowledge base. Thus the large amount of Gibson Dark Fire, Dusk Tiger discussions here.  This was a direct result of Gibson dropping the ball on their Gibson Forum by "force hiding " all posts older than 6 months  -  which made it impossible us Dark Fire owners to build a continuing library of knowledge about our tools!

From the very start, MCK and I decided that Future Guitar Now should cover the complete scope of high tech guitar, and go beyond focusing on Gibson's product offerings.

and some more trivia  - i had prior experience with forums and growing an online resource community, as I cultivated the www.vguitarforums.com focusing on the Roland VG-99.

   
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

shawnb-fgn

And we are all truly grateful! 

This forum is my favorite place to visit on the web.      We talk about everything from strings & fretboard conditioner to esoteric electronics to reminiscing about our first concerts.......

Thanx!!!!
Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp

polaris20-fgn

Oh I see. The Dark Fire was a neat idea, but I wouldn't trust those Gibson dirtbags any farther than I can out drink Zakk Wylde.

I wish more companies would pick up the ball with this stuff, but it seems slow going.

Vic1iful-fgn

Great Idea, So in your experience, what is the difference between the DF and the DT? aND WOULD YOU DO IT OVER AGAIN IF YOU KNEW WHAT you do today. Sorry caps stuck.

DF400-fgn

So, I was just playing around with my GR-33 and my newly installed GK-3A pickup (in my Strat) and decided to record this little...thing. Be forewarned, it's rough as it was completely improvised, in one take on GarageBand. Except for the loop percussion, it's all GR-33 synth sounds (into the Line In input on my MacBook Pro). I used Bass, Organ, Horns, Synth and Trumpet. Very simple, I know. To me it sounds like the soundtrack to a detective show, hehe. 

I have recently been using my GR-33 in a funk band - lots of fun as we cover lots of old funk covers. I have learned a lot of guitar solo licks just doing horn stuff!

gaustu-fgn

I use software synths which receive midi in mono mode. They are not a lot out of here :(
As about latency, there just mesured +5 milliseconds after the output sound front of GR-30. I use USB to MIDI cable.
By the way, there is the only way to define what the soft synth is proper for midi guitar - is only to test it.
For my pity some great synths are not proper: FM7, Zebra, Sylenth, Absynth...
Sytrus works in mono, and I use Reaktor NI  - got to know how to make any synth from its library to receive in mono by 6 channels.
There is another way to use non-mono synth for guitar, I mean charge 6 instances of it into Chainer VSTi in parallel and adjust channels. But this is too complex.

Maybe some of us may point on other synths which are proper for midi guitar.

arkieboy-fgn

I think the key to mono mode on midi guitar is in the soft synth host, not the soft synths themselves.

If you have a mac, pick up a copy of Mainstage for £30 from the mac app store and create a patch with six instances of the synth you want.  Not sure about the PC situation ...

I have a public link to a mainstage starter project with all of the standard logic synths set up for midi mono mode as templates - I should look at it again because I have a few tweaks and simplifications I could apply.

Just pick the synth you want to use, copy the template, rename and change the patch for each of the strings.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3305696/guitar-synth%20starter.zip

Steve

Elantric-fgn

I should add that the major aspect of the Fishman Tripleplay is the included VSTi Host app that supports midi mono mode for all the VSti's that get loaded.
The included software suite with FTP is more powerful than it first appears 
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .