VGuitar Forums

Related Gear => Wireless Instrument / IEM Audio => Topic started by: Don Juan de Marco on August 04, 2010, 11:33:51 PM

Title: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Don Juan de Marco on August 04, 2010, 11:33:51 PM
any ideas on how to do it?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: DctN on August 05, 2010, 04:43:56 AM
I hope is possible because, the only problem that i have when i play my vg is the cable...
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: TheGuitarPlayer on August 05, 2010, 07:05:37 AM
It's totally possible, the problem is that it's not practical in the slightest.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: bob e on August 05, 2010, 03:54:42 PM
Speaking for myself only, of course, I ask "When did practical or simple become a concern?"

Please, explain how it can be done.

MIDIme
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Don Juan de Marco on August 05, 2010, 05:19:16 PM
I heard you can do it by MIDI... But my question is how? What are the names of those equipments? And a Step By Step guide on how to do it.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: TheGuitarPlayer on August 06, 2010, 01:29:08 AM
Well, first you would need a wireless transceiver that's operates on the spectrum available for use by Joe Average.  It would need to have enough bandwidth to transport seven independent audio streams without lossy audio compression, plus a little bit more for the control switches.  Then you would need someway of multiplexing the audio streams and the control changes into one wireless stream, then de-multiplexing it on the other end.  Finally, you would need a power source capable of powering both the guitar, and the wireless transmitter.

I'd estimate that any solution, if even possible on the unlicensed spectrum, the requirements in terms of both power and cost would be prohibitive.

And no, it can't be done with MIDI.  MIDI is fundamentally different to what the VG-99 does.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on August 06, 2010, 07:44:35 AM
I completely agree with the post above, TheGuitarPlayer has summed up the hurdles and design constraints very well.

But I suspect there are a few secret labs currently working on such a system, but running into the the limitations of physics and FCC legislation. When I do the math, a 7 channel wireless rig with the
Mux/demux and wireless transfer end to end over wi-fi  - it would add at least 20 milliseconds latency, and most Roland VGuitar system users are extremely concerned with not adding more latency to our rigs. Plus such a system would have to be priced more than the VG-99.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: musicman65 on August 06, 2010, 06:09:26 PM
Ok...here's a way. Get 12 wireless guitar transmitter/receiver pairs to handle 6 individual strings, 1 normal guitar signal, 4 switches, and 1 gk potentiometer. Attach all 12 transmiters to your guitar strap and use a RMC breakout box to split the signals out to the transmitters. Glue it to the back of the guitar. Use another breakout box to rejoin the signals from the receivers and that should let you roam about with complete freedom!

...of course your guitar will be 10lbs heavier and Duracell will become your sponsor. I am not sure anyone makes wireless devices with enough separate unlicensed channels but maybe they do.

Good luck!  ;D

Bill in TN

Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: onemoreguitar on August 06, 2010, 08:04:24 PM
Supposedly RackVax is working on wireless 13pin.  I messaged the guy who runs the company and he says it's doable, but their unit is a little ways off.  I believe they already have a proof of concept unit.  A little ways from prototype, but the last I spoke to them was around the Dec/Jan so I'm not sure if they've made any headway yet.  
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on August 07, 2010, 08:39:25 AM
With wireless, you can do 12 channels easily and even more, but not with the cheaper units. You need the professional units, usually the top line, which is most expensive. So far I don't see a workable solution with the current bandwith of wireless units.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Hennisdk on October 29, 2010, 11:48:55 PM
Hey Guys

I know this subject is only of dreams.

But check out this wireless transmitter for MIDI from M-Audio

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MidAir.html (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MidAir.html)

Makes me think that going wireless can be possible!!!

Maybe we should contact them and here what they have to say about bringing a wireless GK system.

Cheers

Hennis

Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Brent Flash on October 30, 2010, 02:42:55 PM
Quote from: Hennisdk on October 29, 2010, 11:48:55 PM
Hey Guys

I know this subject is only of dreams.

But check out this wireless transmitter for MIDI from M-Audio

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MidAir.html (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MidAir.html)

Makes me think that going wireless can be possible!!!

Maybe we should contact them and here what they have to say about bringing a wireless GK system.

Cheers

Hennis


What comes out of a 13 pin guitar is not MIDI. Sorry, won't work.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: paults on October 30, 2010, 05:51:17 PM
Any of the companies who are currently marketing wireless stereo headphones/headset mic combo units have the technology to do wireless GK.  One of them, or Roland could do it - if they think it will be a marketable enough product. 

There are also products that multiplex up to 16 analog signals through a single XLR cable. If that multiplexed signal can be run through a conventional wireless mic, you're prety much there. 

Line 6 has hinted about wireless variax hardware for a future generation of their products. Maybe Roland will do wireless GK to compete.   
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: musicman65 on October 30, 2010, 06:32:15 PM
It would take 7 or more channels most likely. Multiplexing is an option but encoding/decoding 6 full range analog signals and vol/s1/s2 would be a challenge. I would think latency would be a big issue. Yes, a single cable can carry a large ammount of high speed data but most data rf technologies aren't as capable without having a delay. The digital wireless headphones I've tried have a delay that wasn't good for monitoring in real-time.

Line6 bought a company that is a pioneer in low-latency digital wireless. Lets hope they come out with a multi-channel solution. Roland isn't even a player in that market so I doubt we'll see a solution from them.


We can always hope...

Musicman65
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: vanceg on October 31, 2010, 09:41:16 PM
Quote from: paults on October 30, 2010, 05:51:17 PM

There are also products that multiplex up to 16 analog signals through a single XLR cable. If that multiplexed signal can be run through a conventional wireless mic, you're prety much there.  

That's true, but those 16 multiplexed signals take about as much bandwidth to transmit as...well....16 channels of audio.  Standard wireless mics can deal with one channel of audio. You'd still need much, much, MUCH more bandwidth to get that multiplexed signal to be transmitted wirelessly.

Yes, the technology exists - but the point is that there isn't a market for such a device.  We really would really need to have either 7 distinct channels of mono audio being transmitted using low cost wireless hardware (which would produce interference problems of it's own) or we'd need to multiplex that signal, digitize it and then transmit it using much higher end wireless gear.  I can't imagine this item costing anything under $3000 at the moment.  Not even with the economy of scale manufacturing many units.

It could be done, though!

Vance
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Hennisdk on October 31, 2010, 11:09:45 PM
Quote from: Brent Flash on October 30, 2010, 02:42:55 PM
What comes out of a 13 pin guitar is not MIDI. Sorry, won't work.

Yip, I know midi is different from GK setup, was just thinking, might be a step in the right direction.

Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: DctN on December 12, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
There are some news???
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on December 13, 2010, 11:06:41 AM
It should be possible using the regular wifi network. It should have plenty of bandwidth for 6 audio channels. I believe some manufacturors are already using regular wifi for wireless systems (line6?) But having 6 beltpacks will make a heavy guitar strap...
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: musicman65 on December 13, 2010, 11:18:42 PM
Standard Wifi technology as it stands is not suitable due to latency and the fact the ethernet buffers and retries on errors. You would have bits of your sound delayed and re-sent radomly. Also there are too many wifi devices that could interfere. My android phone could easily jam a players signal as I walk in the club.

Also six channels is all you can get with no overlaps and then you would have nearly 100% chance that something would interfere since the signals would span the entire 802.11g bandwidth.

I suspect line6 is using a connectionless streaming protocol designed in-house to achieve digital wireless.

bd in tn
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on December 14, 2010, 11:59:18 AM
Line6 are using the ISM-band, according to this whitepaper:
http://line6.com/pdf/Line%206%20Wireless%20microphones%20Whitepaper.pdf (http://line6.com/pdf/Line%206%20Wireless%20microphones%20Whitepaper.pdf)

See this section - it looks like they are in the same band:
QuoteLine 6 digital wireless microphone systems operate in ISM bands. These bands do not require a license, and are free from high powered interference such as broadcast TV.

   As a result they are also free of geographical restrictions and can operate on all channels worldwide
without the need to determine what commercial broadcast TV channels are operating nearby.

   They do, however, have to coexist with other users of these bands. In the 900MMHz range, this typically
includes some cordless telephones and other low power remote applications. The 2.4GHz range also includes WiFi and Bluetooth communication. But since all of these devices are transmitting data as opposed to analog audio, the spectrum can be effectively shared with multiple devices.   Unlike analog transmission, digital data is coded for the specific recipient of that data and all other data is ignored.  This also applies to WiFi communication, which can support dozens of computers all in the same room without worry that one will receive information intended for another
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: musicman65 on December 15, 2010, 08:36:51 PM
Did a little reading on the Line6 digital wireless and it just might be suitable for a 13pin application one day. Since they make a hex pickup guitar, maybe one day they will offer something. Their rack mount receiver is already multi-channel so we just need a transmitter with 9 channels for 6 strings, s1, s2, and GK volume. They do use ISM like wifi but not the same protocol. Latency is a constant 4ms which would have same effect as being 4 feet further from your amp using a chord.

bd in tn

Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jeremysdemo on February 22, 2011, 03:27:36 PM
Hey guys, new here, but this discussion is what brought me...

Still nothing from RackVAX.

I did a bit of research about the pin assignments for this, we don't REALLY need 13 signals to be transmitted, we could get by with as little as 6.
the first 6 pins are the only relevant audio data related to the midi notes besides the 8th which is synth Volume (but which can be set up in advance or changed in real time with the use of midi pedals or midi control tracks) the other pins are program change +1 or -1 (which again can be done without the pick up) the last two pins are Volume +1 or -1.(also able to be programs or set by another midi device.

SO what we NEED is a transmitter that can send 6 mono audio signals on different channels to either the Line6 receiver mentioned or one that is similar and something to supply power to the pickup (if it even really needs power to work the pickups?) I mean the pickups on guitars don't need power unless they are active pickups....my guess is the power that is supplied to the GK via the 13pin chord is for the led display and whatever power is needed to send the program changes and other commands, if we are strictly talking using the AUDIO ONLY from the pickup the rest is unnecessary for a "wireless" application of the pickup.

Nady also makes an 8 simultaneous channel mic receiver
http://www.publicaddresswarehouse.com/page-nady-u81-hs.html (http://www.publicaddresswarehouse.com/page-nady-u81-hs.html)
but I don't know what the delay on them is and interference it may get, if it compares to the digital line6 option or not.

But in theory you could take apart 6 of those transmitters set them all to different frequencies and put them in one chassis with 6 pv batteries...it may be a bit heavy and awkward, but it would work.
Then all you have to do is get the audio signals from the receiver and route them back into a 13 pin chord to their proper pins.....

little side note* if you where using this on an acoustic guitar (I know it is problematic) you could hide the transmitter boards inside it!  :D

keep shinin

jerm  8)



Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on February 22, 2011, 03:32:21 PM
QuoteThen all you have to do is get the audio signals from the receiver and route them back into a 13 pin chord to their proper pins.....

. . . . .  and have zero desire for children, because lugging around 6 RF transmitters inside  your axe will surely make you sterile.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61cBqvQTCnL._SL1000_.jpg&hash=222fc232b0789e6ac00fa2398c68d20be06b1349)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jeremysdemo on February 22, 2011, 03:43:04 PM
Quote from: Elantric on February 22, 2011, 03:32:21 PM
. . . . .  and have zero desire for children, because lugging around 6 RF transmitters inside  your axe will surely make you sterile.
I hope that is not true since I already have one for my vocal headset, one for my regular guitar signal, one for my Sure in ear monitor system....a midi one for my AXIOM25 and GNX4....not to mention all the guys in the audience texting and calling people.....what can I say I just don't like WIRES!!!!!!

Are the LIne6 systems RF? I thought they were doing something different with the digital wireless receiver in the 2.4GHz range? that is the same as the 2 wireless phones in my house...been using them for years and the swimmers are still jumping!  ;D

What we need is ONE transmitter that sends on 6 different channels at once...would that make your balls feel safer if it was in one box?
imagine how many other unauthorized things are transmitting through you right now.....I don't like to think about that.... :-X

I would have replied back sooner but kept being rejected by the verification, how am I supposed to know Fenders first name I am an Ibanez man! j/k leo....

keep shinin

jerm  8)


Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on February 22, 2011, 04:06:50 PM
Yes - the Line 6 gear at 2.4GHz is considered "UHF" RF frequency



Realize some folks are more sensitive to RF than others.

me - i can not wear a bluetooth headset for more than 2 minutes before my brain feels like its in a frying pan.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on February 22, 2011, 04:17:13 PM
But hey Jeremy,
Congratulations, looks like you are VGuitarForums member #3000  !!

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.istockphoto.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F315144%2F2%2Fistockphoto_315144-celebrate.jpg&hash=3543a3f823614d9933b11bdafd3bfe51739ab311)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jeremysdemo on February 22, 2011, 04:17:40 PM
Man that is terrible,,, :'(

I guess I am one of the lucky ones never noticed any reaction to it, 

another thing to consider is using wireless mics, some of the electronics in them are tiny and you could easily in theory take 6 of them apart and put all of them in one very small box that would be close to the size of a regular transmitter.

The biggest problem I can see for RackVax is supplying power to 6 transmitters at once....each one generally used 1 9v battery....if you could find some way to get around that maybe find microphones that operate off of 1 AA...6 of those in a box or one 9V equivalent would not be too bad.

keep shinin

jerm  8)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jeremysdemo on February 22, 2011, 04:18:47 PM
Quote from: Elantric on February 22, 2011, 04:17:13 PM
But hey Jeremy,
Congratulations, looks like you are VGuitarForums member #3000  !!

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.istockphoto.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F315144%2F2%2Fistockphoto_315144-celebrate.jpg&hash=3543a3f823614d9933b11bdafd3bfe51739ab311)
WOOHOO! party on the big boat!

keep shinin

jerm  8)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on February 22, 2011, 04:22:28 PM
Jeremy, In honor of your special achievement,

enjoy this episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000
Mystery Science Theater 3000 (MST3K): Gumby in Robot Rumpus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M4_XZ3FLHw#)


We had planned on awarding VguitarForum member #3000 a special gift,to commemorate our expanding user forum, but we can not locate the walwart for it ;)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg403.imageshack.us%2Fimg403%2F7067%2Fzoom3000playeryd9.jpg&hash=9411834aae162ff476e43582338f8ab5f4b34a33)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jeremysdemo on February 22, 2011, 04:28:08 PM
Quote from: Elantric on February 22, 2011, 04:22:28 PM
Jeremy, In honor of your special achievement,

enjoy this episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000
Mystery Science Theater 3000 (MST3K): Gumby in Robot Rumpus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M4_XZ3FLHw#)


We had planned on awarding VguitarForum member #3000 as special gift, but we can not locate the walwart for it

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg403.imageshack.us%2Fimg403%2F7067%2Fzoom3000playeryd9.jpg&hash=9411834aae162ff476e43582338f8ab5f4b34a33)

Hey thanx!

but I ain't achieved nothin yet,  ;D
we get a wireless prototype going then it will be time to bust out the congratulatory bottle of champagne!  ;)

Gumby....man take me back a ways....

Speaking of wall warts.....I recently eliminated 10 of them from my racks!
Yes, I designed and built a 9v power supply 1U rack that supplies all of them now....working on fitting a 12V one in the same rack to get rid of the rest.....Free my brothers FREE at last!

Gotta go..will pop in later and see if anyone has any other suggestions for this project.

keep shinin

jerm  8)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on February 22, 2011, 04:34:47 PM
QuoteYes, I designed and built a 9v power supply 1U rack that supplies all of them now....working on fitting a 12V one in the same rack to get rid of the rest.....Free my brothers FREE at last!


Post a pic!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jeremysdemo on February 22, 2011, 04:41:07 PM
Not much to see....just a plain gray face 1U rack I got from a computer wholesaler with a power switch on the front....I don't know what it was used for before scuzzy drives or something.....

OR did you mean a picture of the insides....and back panel...that's were all the action is.  ;D

Standard 9V 35amp power supply inside you can get at any electronic component outlet, some wires that lead to a channel strip on the back a few fuses....in hindsight I should have taken pictures for a DIY tutorial but I was too caught up in the excitement of being rid of those pesky black boxes!
Will document the next one better....(might start building them and selling them on Ebay like the Footar!)

keep shinin

jerm  8)

Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jeremysdemo on February 27, 2011, 05:58:49 AM
3 of these would do it:

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/cc8520.html (http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/cc8520.html)

That's texas Intruments RF SOC, since they are stereo, we can send two signals per unit.

They only require 3v, many other similar quality and size devices on the market.

manufacturing begins in March, will post a link to finished units.  ;)

price range is going to be $150~200 for complete unit, but will sell DIY kit's with breakout wire adapter for $40.

The DYI kit uses already available manufactured products with your choice of battery packs (AA powered, usb powered like iphone battery chargers ect..) you will be give a list and URLS to the devices and the breakout wires for the GK's to hook them all up.


keep shinin

jerm  8)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on February 28, 2011, 05:27:27 PM
Forget about having multiple transmitters and receivers, the answer is in high speed multiplexing, and using one wideband transmitter/receiver setup.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/40/402535_1.pdf (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/40/402535_1.pdf)
I would go for digital multiplexing, including the 6 analog/digital hexpickup channels, plus the GK volume and S1/2 switches as part of the digital in band signalling.
For the hexpickups, i would think 12 to 16 bit sampling would be sufficient, which you could possibly squeeze it all into about 128 Kb bandwidth.
I wouldn't bother with the 2.4GHz frequency either, everyone and everything uses it, 5.6GHz band is still relatively free.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jeremysdemo on March 02, 2011, 04:10:59 PM
Some interesting observations, thank you for sharing them.

Multiplexing was talked about before, but if it was that simple companies like rackvax that talked about it 2 years ago would have something to market by now, http://www.rackvax.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10 (http://www.rackvax.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10).
The bulkiness of a multiplex device's and their power supplies was also mentioned.(we are talking portable wireless prototype)

transmitters in the 5.6GHz band seem to have a greater range, but their expense certainly reflect that:

http://www.appliedwireless.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=2&ParentCat=1 (http://www.appliedwireless.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=2&ParentCat=1)

For 1/4 the price of one of these ^^^ systems, you could get 3 of these:

http://www.gtadigital.com/?product_detail&ID=144 (http://www.gtadigital.com/?product_detail&ID=144)

Yes they are in the 2.4 range (16 channel selectable) with only 4ms delay at 25ft, but they are smaller than most transmitters so 3 of them together would not weigh much or take up too much space, also they can be powered by thin long lasting USB battery devices (like an portable Ipod charger/power supply) just one idea, would prefer to use the TI stuff and integrate all three stereo transmitters into one board and chassis.

As far as I know the "volume" is for the guitar signal not each individual pick up, most people send their regular guitar pickup signals elsewhere (not through the GK) so that volume nobs does not get used. Midi volume as well as the program changes can all be controlled by other devices so it is not a necessity for those controls to be transmitted, seriously who is changing those program numbers with that goofy knob as they are playing? not me, all my program changes on modules are either done with pedals or control tracks....so my hands are free to PLAY!  ;D

Trying to put together a cost effective practical affordable wireless system for the audio only from this pickup, if this was going to be a marketable product put out by a fortune 500 company yes multiplexing and 5.6 frequency would be the starting ground......and $1000 price tag would be the finish line.
PS*
I read that pdf, 24bit 192k completely unnecessary for wireless live audio transmittance especially when the "audio" is never heard.....

Great ideas! keep them coming.  ;)

keep shinin

jerm  8)



Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on August 28, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
Here is something interesting, a complete high quality 4 channel transceiver on a chip, using the 2.4GHz ISM band with auto frequency hopping.
Two of these and you have a hex + normal PU and GK Volume using A/D D/A converters, plus each chip has a few digital I/O's spare too for S1/S2 + GK selector.

You can get two different varieties of the this chip, one Analog>digital>analog, and the other analog>digital>USB.
Latency down to 10.7 ms, and up to 16bit 48kHz digital audio.

There may be hope yet for a compact wireless GK system..

http://www.ti.com/ww/en/analog/cc8520/index.shtml?DCMP=hpa_rf_cc8520&HQS=Other+OT+purepathwireless (http://www.ti.com/ww/en/analog/cc8520/index.shtml?DCMP=hpa_rf_cc8520&HQS=Other+OT+purepathwireless)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on August 28, 2012, 11:58:49 PM
QuoteLatency down to 10.7 ms,

Sounds interesting  - ( I learned about the T.I. Purepath Wireless chipset a few weeks ago.)
They advertise "configurable, <20ms"


However, while that  10.7 ms wireless transmission latency at first appears adequate for live use, for most MIDI guitarists I know, it  translates into very diminishing interest IMHO.

How many are willing to accept an additional 10- 20 milliseconds latency for wireless?

Also those T.I. Purepath Wireless audio chips are the building blocks, but the burden of obtaining the necessary FCC  / CE approval remains with the final system integrator.

I perform this type FCC testing with my "day gig" products , and its typically around $7k to $10K to obtain an FCC Certification for a new wireless product, therefore who ever designs with these chips must factor in those FCC Certification fees into the total design costs.     

It all boils down to nobody is getting rich designing gear for MIDI guitarists.



Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: arkieboy on August 29, 2012, 02:59:51 AM

What you are asking is - to a first approximation - a bus powered wireless 24 bit, 8 channel USB2 audio interface with midi.  7 channels for the audio, send S1, S2 and the controller according to midi protocol.  Wireless USB is good for 110Mbit/s at 10m: 24bit * 96k * 8 = 18Mbit/s so no bandwidth or sound quality issues.  A decent laptop battery should be able to power one of these for 3hrs.

Discuss

Of course, I'm not questioning that bringing one to market and making some money out of it would be a problem ...

Steve


Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on August 29, 2012, 06:53:45 AM
Nobody wants to carry the weight of a laptop battery.

(There are other lighter energy sources BTW )
But more importantly  - the potential market for a "wireless 13 pin" system is becoming exceedingly diminished with the imminent release of the wireless Fishman TriplePlay, which I predict will capture bulk of the market for Guitar to MIDI users, leaving the main market for a wireless 13 pin device with the COSM Guitar Users (VG-99, VB-99)   

which we already know reflects 0.01% of the Guitar market.

Do the math and it becomes an exercise in burning money, with diminishing paths for economic return.

As my Dad used to say - "Its like designing and building a Rudder for a Duck Then blame the marketing department for lack of sales."

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gbtholding.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2FDFSS-Swing.png&hash=32d9e8965b2e54ea351babb7244e504232455744)


But certainly there are other guitarists who would want wireless multichannel audio - the Ricky Graham PD folks
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4222.msg28621#msg28621 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4222.msg28621#msg28621)
I look forward to the T.I. Purepath Audio chips on pre- FCC approved  modules from a third party integrator, who absorbs the FCC certification costs.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on August 29, 2012, 03:16:30 PM
I think the best way around latency issues is to go the old fashioned analog R.F. way,
and yes, a commercial venture would certainly be unprofitable and unsustainable.
The only way around 'legal issues' is to supply D.I.Y preassembled short-form boards or kitsets.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on August 29, 2012, 03:24:05 PM
QuoteI look forward to the T.I. Purepath Audio chips on pre- FCC approved  modules from a third party integrator, who absorbs the FCC certification costs.

Found some
http://www.anaren.com/products/wireless-audio-air-solutions (http://www.anaren.com/products/wireless-audio-air-solutions)

http://www.anaren.com/sites/default/files/Part-Datasheets/A8520E24A91_0.pdf (http://www.anaren.com/sites/default/files/Part-Datasheets/A8520E24A91_0.pdf)

http://www.anaren.com/sites/default/files/user-manuals/A8520E24A91_Users_Manual.pdf (http://www.anaren.com/sites/default/files/user-manuals/A8520E24A91_Users_Manual.pdf)

The A8520E24A91 is a high-performance, FCC & IC certified and ETSI compliant audio module based on the Texas Instruments CC8520 transceiver and CC2591 range extender in the industry's smallest package (11 x 19 x 2.5 mm).
The module incorporates the required RF matching & filtering, crystal, integral antenna, and digital line filtering for good noise reduction and sensitivity. The result is quick low power wireless connectivity without having to deal with extensive protocol, RF, antenna design and regulatory compliance; thereby providing quick time to market. The modules are 100% tested in production to ensure consistent performance. The A8520E24A91 has an RoHS-compliant ENIG finish and is packaged on tape & reel or in matrix

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anaren.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F8520-for-web-2_0.jpg&hash=f992d9cc1f230e972a4a4594f00b1b446eb855a8)

$37 per module

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Anaren/A8520E24A91-EM2/?qs=dFaqhILVACGrvw7iXMxVzOAJAgAljsq%252b (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Anaren/A8520E24A91-EM2/?qs=dFaqhILVACGrvw7iXMxVzOAJAgAljsq%252b)
http://www.anaren.com/sites/default/files/Part-Datasheets/A8520E24A91-EM2_0.pdf (http://www.anaren.com/sites/default/files/Part-Datasheets/A8520E24A91-EM2_0.pdf)
Well now - let me think about this.

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/645/5.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/645/5.pdf)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: arkieboy on September 08, 2012, 03:44:57 PM
Quote from: Elantric on August 29, 2012, 06:53:45 AM
Nobody wants to carry the weight of a laptop battery


But they'll tote a Les Paul around all evening ...


Just saying ;)


steve
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Spawn-X on December 04, 2012, 08:04:59 AM
P'tit lu all...
Just my 2 cents to talk about the Rackvax guy who planned to create a wireless for GK systems.
Can't find the topic, but sure of it.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on December 04, 2012, 03:20:37 PM
I talk to Corey at RackVax all the time. Per my most recent communication he got a new gig at Intel

FWIW - I assisted by designing the main internal CPU PC board for the RackVax

Regarding wireless GK-3 pickups - todays ballpark would still be in the + $700 MSRP range, and of course ANY wireless system WILL add latency and a battery weight and a finite run time  - therefore interest in a wireless GK-3 at those prices remains low.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jbgm on September 05, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
Guys, even though this is an old thread, I just found something interesting that answers the initial question: Harald Milz has published detailed schematics and a set of instructions to build a wireless device for a 13-pin GK cable.  Available under GNU license at:
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Wireless-GK/ (http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Wireless-GK/)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: GraemeJ on September 05, 2013, 01:53:53 PM
Quote from: jbgm on September 05, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
Guys, even though this is an old thread, I just found something interesting that answers the initial question: Harald Milz has published detailed schematics and a set of instructions to build a wireless device for a 13-pin GK cable.  Available under GNU license at:
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Wireless-GK/ (http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Wireless-GK/)

That document was last updated in 2003 - I think we can reasonably assume the idea went nowhere.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on September 05, 2013, 01:57:51 PM
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Wireless-GK/ (http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Wireless-GK/)

Its from 2001. - Looks like he is stuck in a 12 year R&D Cycle

Electronics is changing every 2 years now - so there are better technologies today.

Remember the Guitar to  MIDI (and the entire 13 pin)  market and is very small - and the profit  vs R&D loss makes this a labor of love.

Nobody is getting rich off guitar to MIDI

But contact him for current  status
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Guitars/gibson-lp-artisan-00230976/ (http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Guitars/gibson-lp-artisan-00230976/)
last known email
Harald Milz <hm <at> seneca.muc.de>
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jbgm on September 05, 2013, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: GraemeJ on September 05, 2013, 01:53:53 PM
That document was last updated in 2003 - I think we can reasonably assume the idea went nowhere.
It is true that it seems like it went nowhere. This does not mean that the idea had no merit. It simply means that it had no takers. Harald's posts starts with: "... the basic concept should be all right, and there is nothing in it which makes it physically or economically impossible. I am still looking for serious fellow developers... :-)". As an engineer with basic knowledge of electronics, I think that Harald's design is sound and doable now. As other posts have already mentioned, developing a wireless GK might be economically unfeasible for a large company. As a community project, it might be overambitious... unless we have in this community enough people willing and able to do some serious (pro bono) work in electronics.   
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on September 05, 2013, 03:46:08 PM
I'll assist where I can

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82.0)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on September 14, 2013, 01:00:55 AM
Is a 7.1 stereo wireless headphone using a "true" 8 channel fully separate sound channel transmission?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on September 14, 2013, 06:07:37 AM
QuoteIs a 7.1 stereo wireless headphone using a "true" 8 channel fully separate sound channel transmission?

no,

Most are wirelessly transmitting a pre-exisiting Dolby AC3 or DTS multichannel bitstream with meta data control for real time steering of the signals and decoding in the headphone.
http://www.astrogaming.com/a30-headset-ac3-edition (http://www.astrogaming.com/a30-headset-ac3-edition)

To employ that tech on a DIY solution would have several hurdles -  guitar mounted real time low latency AC3/DTS encoding ICs and obtaining legal license to use that tech.

Today both Dolby and DTS make 85% of their income from licensing their CODECs, and have fierce legal teams.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: montyrivers on September 14, 2013, 06:28:24 AM
Quote from: Elantric on September 14, 2013, 06:07:37 AM

Today both Dolby and DTS make 85% of their income from licensing their CODECs, and have fierce legal teams.

Those Bastages.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on September 14, 2013, 07:15:03 AM
This tech holds a lot of promise, Maybe it could be used for a GK-Wireless solution
The WiGig Serial Extension (WSE) v1.2 specification from the Wi-Fi Alliance® will provide the initial foundation for the Media Agnostic USB specification.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-if-wi-fi-media-agnostic-ma-use-spec,24200.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-if-wi-fi-media-agnostic-ma-use-spec,24200.html)
There's a new USB spec in development allowing the USB protocol and speeds over a wireless connection.



The non-profit USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF) announced on Monday (pdf) the development of the new Media Agnostic USB (MA USB) that aims to enable wireless devices and docking stations to communicate over the USB protocol without the need for a physical, wired connection. The spec is also shooting to achieve wireless gigabit transfer rates while using the existing USB infrastructure.
http://www.usb.org/press/USB-IF_Press_Releases/USB_WSE_Tech_Bulletin_FINAL.pdf (http://www.usb.org/press/USB-IF_Press_Releases/USB_WSE_Tech_Bulletin_FINAL.pdf)


The USB-IF group said this week that the WiGig Serial Extension (WSE) v1.2 specification from the Wi-Fi Alliance will provide the initial foundation for the new MA USB specification. The WSE specification has been formally transferred to the USB-IF from the Wi-Fi Alliance, and the WSE specification already incorporates the USB protocol.

Wireless devices using the MA USB spec will be compliant with USB 3.1, USB 3.0 and USB 2.0, meaning the devices will use existing drivers and APIs.The WiGig spec can achieve several times the speed of Wi-Fi, up to 7 Gbps, by accessing the unlicensed 60 GHz frequencies within a short range like the bedroom or den. WiGig became a part of the Wi-Fi Alliance at the beginning of the year.

The non-profit USB-IF group has also established an MA USB Work Group that is currently developing the MA USB v1.0 spec, which can supposedly use any kind of wireless system including WiGig, Wi-Fi and UWB (Ultrawide Band). This development will take around a year to complete, and then likely another year before devices with wireless USB technology will appear on the market. Work on wireless USB began sometime around 2004.

"We are pleased to see the USB-IF use the WiGig Serial Extension in its development of the Media Agnostic USB specification," said Edgar Figueroa, president and CEO of Wi-Fi Alliance. "Advanced wireless usages of serial bus technology have the potential to deliver great benefit to users."

News of the new spec arrives after the Wi-Fi Alliance revealed new WiGig CERTIFIED branding on Sunday for certified products entering the market as soon as next year. Unlike the current dual-band 802.11ac Wi-Fi spec which operates on the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands, these devices will operate on the 60 GHz frequency band as previously stated. This allows for low-latency traffic, multi-gigabit speed and secured connectivity between nearby devices.

"In addition to developing a certification program to validate product interoperability, Wi-Fi Alliance has initiated several projects to address 60 GHz implementations of data, display, and audio applications," the group stated. "Newly-formed cooperative relationships with other industry organizations will also help ensure delivery of the best user experience with a variety of applications on WiGig CERTIFIED products."

WiGig CERTIFIED and Wi-Fi CERTIFIED products are expected to implement USB functionality, the group said.


and

http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/wireless_connectivity/wireless_audio/overview.page (http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/wireless_connectivity/wireless_audio/overview.page)
http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/wireless_connectivity/wireless_audio/products.page (http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/wireless_connectivity/wireless_audio/products.page)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on September 14, 2013, 01:37:55 PM
Cool stuff happening!!! Thanks for sharing Elantric.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on September 17, 2013, 01:48:26 AM
I like the sound of that, could be the best digital option yet.

Other alternatives for wireless GK with minimal latency would be an Analog form of Time Division Multiplexing (TDM),
or old school analog stacked channel wideband RF (bulky too).
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on April 08, 2014, 03:27:15 AM
A net search on low latency multi channel RF chipsets has brought me back here..ha.
Looks like TI Purepath is still the best at 10~16ms  :-\
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on April 09, 2014, 02:50:10 AM
So two 2xCC8531 could transfer 8 audio channels, where the 8'th channel could be used for a coded S1/S2/VOL transmission using a couple of PIC's. However, how would this latency "feel" to the guitarist? To slow?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on April 09, 2014, 04:06:46 AM
These look interesting
MRF24WB0MA/MRF24WB0MB Data Sheet
2.4 GHz IEEE 802.11b™
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/70632C.pdf (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/70632C.pdf)
1~2 Mb/s throughput could support up to and well over 192kHz sampling rate per string with some added A/D like this
http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS5368_F4.pdf (http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS5368_F4.pdf)
and D/A
http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4362a-82a.html (http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4362a-82a.html)
Can't find any info on latency, but they talk about 10uS wakeup times.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on April 09, 2014, 04:02:57 PM
Yup chips looks very workable acc. to the data sheets.  :) One battery powered transmitter strap-on box with a input 13-pin input jack + one (synth powered or adapter powered with integrated charger? for transmitter) receiver with 13-pin output.
Two short cables included. Component cost + mounting, assembly, testing, packaging, margin => street price incl. VAT = my guess $599
I WANT!!!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on April 09, 2014, 04:37:01 PM
QuoteComponent cost + mounting, assembly, testing, packaging, margin => street price incl. VAT = my guess $599
I WANT!!!

Add about $25K to $50K for non recurring R&D charges (minimum) for two folks to work on this  - and fund engineering prototypes.  I estimate at the end of the day this type system will still add approx 12-20 ms latency - in addition to any other latency (Guitar to MIDI)  - and the forced need to run batteries on the Guitar side explains the low interest level. If it did exist at $600 each for the wireless 13 pin system - my hunch is there are only 40-50 buyers willing to pony up those funds for a sale.

There is always Kickstarter !

But remember 80% of guitarists still think the GK 13 pin cable is MIDI. 
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Yug on September 10, 2014, 05:02:07 PM
I've been thinking about wireless GK-3 for a long time and this thread has made for some interesting reading.
Given that we are looking for a bandwidth in the region of 7Mbits per second to satisfy the transport of 7 audio channels and control with 24 bit and 44KHz sample rate, this doesn't seem to difficult to imagine over an rf link. Obviously, using existing Wifi, bluetooth type protocols is a no go due to latency so a more direct form of rf link is required. Latency could never be much better than say 2ms due to the group delay of the convertors, which will most likely be sigma delta convertors at each end of the link. As a rule of thumb, 5ms would be the absolute maximum latency given that man can begin to detect latency over 5ms - as is the case with in-ear monitors. Also bearing in mind that 1ms represents about 1 foot in distance. This means we have to implement an rf digital link offering a letency of no more than 3ms in order that the player's experience is not compromised.
So, it's probably time to investigate the transport of 7Mbs with a latency of less than 3ms using a unidirectional rf link transporting a low level error correcting protocol which challenges my knowledge of rf links inspite of this being chicken feed with my work on wired links. One of these being a recent project in developing a full duplex 48k 48 channel USB interface. USB2 supports 48 channels of bidirectional audio. At least this gives us some known benchmarks in some critical areas. I think even WAVES offers latencies in its UDP Soundgrid protocol of less than 1ms, so an rf implementation is certainly not rocket science in acheiving that required.
As has been mentioned, the biggest killer is going to be the supply demands of the guitar electronics needs. However, the current quad port ADCs are fairly low power. For example using two PCM4104's would demand about 188mW. Factoring in processor and rf requirements, we probably can get reasonable play time per change of Li-ions.
It seems the appropriate rf link is the key area of investigation, not forgetting all those nasty legal requisites.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on September 12, 2014, 05:37:42 PM
One way to get past the latency is to go all analog (stacked wideband+ inverted channels), or just all out high speed digital.

A nice option/compliment to a wireless system would be to make use of a regular jack guitar cable to carry DC and/or recharge the internal transmitter battery, and also pipe the rf down the guitar cable.
Although it defeats the purpose of wireless, it does make 13 pin systems more palattable by using a regular robust industry standard mono guitar cable connection for GK guitar.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on September 13, 2014, 08:11:23 AM
Quote from: gumtown on September 12, 2014, 05:37:42 PM
One way to get past the latency is to go all analog (stacked wideband+ inverted channels), or just all out high speed digital.

A nice option/compliment to a wireless system would be to make use of a regular jack guitar cable to carry DC and/or recharge the internal transmitter battery, and also pipe the rf down the guitar cable.
Although it defeats the purpose of wireless, it does make 13 pin systems more palattable by using a regular robust industry standard mono guitar cable connection for GK guitar.
Now I like this idea 8)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on September 13, 2014, 08:27:23 AM
Quotemake use of a regular jack guitar cable to carry DC and/or recharge the internal transmitter battery, and also pipe the rf down the guitar cable.
Although it defeats the purpose of wireless, it does make 13 pin systems more palattable by using a regular robust industry standard mono guitar cable connection for GK guitar.

Similar designs have been used before.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musikladen-bendorf.de%2Fgebraucht%2Fbild%2Fshadow.JPG&hash=1684c79fc3b0cd67633b500d31e34b8197d4f0e9)
The 1986 Takamine / Ovatiion  / Charvel MIDI Guitars employed the Shadow GTM6 system using one TRS 1/4"  cable with power on the ring and PAM Multiplexed 6 audio channels on the Tip.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2485.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2485.0)

A similar type system was used on the Gibson /Tronical/Echo designed Gibson Dark Fire / Dusk Tiger/ LP LTD 5 years ago
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on September 13, 2014, 08:30:59 AM
yes I remember these. I used to have Shadow GT. Loved not having to use 24pin at the time. But didn't like the even greater latancy and sadly it broke fairly easily
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on October 17, 2014, 03:03:29 PM
Quote from: whippinpost91850 on September 13, 2014, 08:30:59 AM
yes I remember these. I used to have Shadow GT. Loved not having to use 24pin at the time. But didn't like the even greater latancy and sadly it broke fairly easily
Technology has evolved since the 80's. We don't have to assume that it's impossible. I really like Gumtowns ideas. A wireless or DC carried 6-channel audio+control signals using a shared protocol would be great.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on May 12, 2015, 02:20:44 PM
New apt-X LIVE codec White paper
Is this the way of the future?
As the radio spectrum of older analog gear is re-assigned to mobile broadband, making all current wireless guitar/mic gear virtually useless,
the old analog TV UHF spectrum is to be opened up to "White Space" wireless digital audio.

Quote
PERFORMANCE
apt-X Live can deliver a single channel of 24bit, 48kHz audio at 144kbps and a codec latency of less
than 1.9ms. The majority of this delay can be attributed to the subband analysis and synthesis filter banks. An average bit error rate of 10-3 is subjectively insignificant across a wide range of test material. In the event of restoration of reception after longer-term data loss, apt-X Live recovers the audio stream after an additional delay of approximately 3ms

This could path the way to (multi channel digital audio) wireless GK technology with a 1.9ms latency.

http://www.csr.com/sites/default/files/white-papers/low_bit_rate_audio_coding_for_digital_wireless_microphones.pdf (http://www.csr.com/sites/default/files/white-papers/low_bit_rate_audio_coding_for_digital_wireless_microphones.pdf)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Tony Raven on May 19, 2015, 01:59:18 AM
All in all, wouldn't it just be a LOT easier to hang a VG-99 or GR-55 off my belt (balanced by the battery pack on the other hip) & send THAT output wireless to the board...?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: danscan25 on May 28, 2015, 07:46:38 PM
http://m.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/ (http://m.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: imerkat on May 29, 2015, 03:47:31 AM
Quote from: danscan25 on May 28, 2015, 07:46:38 PM
http://m.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/ (http://m.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/)

WHUUUAAAAA! TAKE MY MONEY!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on May 29, 2015, 02:05:08 PM
Well then, spend it and tell us later if it's good :D  Not to be negative but there's no info about what technology used and how it will operate on stage with other wireless systems/FM radios in the area.
I wish the guy could present the system in this forum. It's very interesting if it's properly made.
If you stand there and a close by radio station kicks in playing hip-hop on one of your strings while you're doing the rock'n'roll it could be problematic.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on May 29, 2015, 05:07:30 PM
Definitely need some basic specs, it does not seem to carry GK Volume, S1/S2, or GK Switch.
You can easily make your own GK wireless by using 3 or 4 stereo FM transmitters (MP3 to Car radio type), and matching FM band receivers in a 1U rack box.
But you need to know the radio frequency bands used, and need at least 5~6 frequencies available (auto channel hopping) if the radio spectrum is already used.

Here are some pictures of his creation.
I am not that keen on the rack unit format for the receiver.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200007952-6576d666e9-public%2FIMG_6808.JPG&hash=50e28f39aa335eb69cecb8514bd4d8ac2696581e)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200007949-be4b6bf451-public%2FIMG_6804.JPG&hash=3cec138ea6d12ff08055f57a45e4d7db1ee89234)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200007948-d6b3cd7af4-public%2FIMG_6802.JPG&hash=b14d82469d23a6147c8747de731ad2f5763ef7c3)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: RogerVG8EX on January 12, 2016, 01:05:10 PM
You can buy a Roland GK-KIT-GT3 and change the 13 pin output with a VGA female connector and then use a wireless VGA to go to a converter that converts the VGA  into a normal 13 pin. If you want you can replace the GR/GI/VG/GP 13 pin input with a VGA female connector
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Fwww.engadget.com%2Fmedia%2F2006%2F01%2Fwireless_vga.jpg&hash=9379844226d430967aa410a42ffbafb24ada146f)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on January 12, 2016, 01:17:30 PM
Quote from: Roger GR S/D on January 12, 2016, 01:05:10 PM
You can buy a Roland GK-KIT-GT3 and change the 13 pin output with a VGA female connector and then use a wireless VGA to go to a converter that converts the VGA  into a normal 13 pin. If you want you can replace the GR/GI/VG/GP 13 pin input with a VGA female connector
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Fwww.engadget.com%2Fmedia%2F2006%2F01%2Fwireless_vga.jpg&hash=9379844226d430967aa410a42ffbafb24ada146f)
And this actually works ?? LOL   ::)
Can you show me a picture of it working..
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on March 03, 2016, 11:51:25 AM
Just ordered some materials and going to try out an idea for a wireless GK.
Been researching for a while and have decided the best way to go is analog audio for the 7 channels required + low speed digital for the GK Vol/GK Sw/S1/S2 and avoid the digital audio latency problem all together.
It has been frustrating to find good highly integrated analog radio chips with digital tuning, as most are now obsolete or at EOL.

It will be fun to play with and trial..
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on March 03, 2016, 03:00:04 PM
Quote from: gumtown on March 03, 2016, 11:51:25 AM
Just ordered some materials and going to try out an idea for a wireless GK.
Been researching for a while and have decided the best way to go is analog audio for the 7 channels required + low speed digital for the GK Vol/GK Sw/S1/S2 and avoid the digital audio latency problem all together.
It has been frustrating to find good highly integrated analog radio chips with digital tuning, as most are now obsolete or at EOL.

It will be fun to play with and trial..

Great news Gumtown. I knew you would do this walkabout  ;)
I know you can do it. I want one!!!!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on March 16, 2016, 03:44:03 AM
Made a start !!
Working on a 'proof of concept' prototype.
I have a receiver which does 8 tracks of audio and one slow rate data channel (for GK Vol and GK type from pin 9 analog voltages, and S1/S2 outputs from a micro.
I have it receiving test signals (thanks to a Marconi radio test set) from it's I.F. frequency which itself has a 800kHz bandwidth, with 32 programmable radio channels (over a 32mHz range).

About to start on the transmitter equivalent, which will run from a 3.7 or 7.4 v LiPo rechargeable battery, with a 3v to +/- 7v converter to run the GK pickup.

Just need to find the right programmable R.F. up/down converter/mixer chips, with built in PLL Osc and LNA/PA amps, preferably one that can select operating bands of user choice, 400mHz, 900mHz, 1.5gHz and 2.5gHz, or there about, and use any 32 selectable channels within those bands.

Currently running a regular 16x2 LCD display until the OLED 128x64 .96" displays arrive.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: imerkat on March 16, 2016, 08:49:34 AM
Well you definitely have a potential customer in me!  ;D 

This reminds me of the Geiger counter Pro. I asked William Mathews of WMD for the concept 5 years ago  and I'm still interested and he is still working on it lol
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: ratbastid on March 17, 2016, 06:21:08 AM
Another customer here. I'm VERY interested in this.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Vade on March 17, 2016, 07:16:17 AM
Here's wishing you Godspeed on your Journey Gumtown!

(and on your latency;)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on March 17, 2016, 07:46:58 AM
Yes me tooooo
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on March 28, 2016, 04:35:41 AM
Making a lot of progress on this so far.

Here is a teaser on the transmitter startup screen


limited production wireless GK 13 from europe- but its no longer available

https://youtu.be/Gbrt2G8lhXU



https://youtu.be/Ek9ydo4c_C4

(https://s6.postimg.cc/3kfqxk7ht/rocky_wireless_gk.png)
https://web.archive.org/web/20160422201117/http://www.kapela-gibon.cz:80/roland-gr55-wireless-system/
https://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/


(https://kapela-gibon.cz/_files/200009922-d1a36d29e1-public/IMG_8567.JPG)
(https://kapela-gibon.cz/_files/200009923-cfb1ad0aad-public/IMG_8568.JPG)
(https://kapela-gibon.cz/_files/200009924-76d9e77d11-public/IMG_8570.JPG)
(https://kapela-gibon.cz/_files/200009925-3087a3181b-public/IMG_8572.JPG)
(https://kapela-gibon.cz/_files/200009926-d97a2da74d-public/IMG_8573.JPG)
(https://kapela-gibon.cz/_files/200009927-0788808827-public/IMG_8574.JPG)
(https://kapela-gibon.cz/_files/200009928-e72e6e828d-public/IMG_8575.JPG)
(https://kapela-gibon.cz/_files/200009929-829d383948-public/IMG_8576.JPG)
Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2588.0
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on March 28, 2016, 07:15:15 AM
Man, You are a tease!!!! LOL
Title: Re: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on March 28, 2016, 07:59:00 AM
There are a lot of exiting DIY projects on this forum lately. I really hope you will succeed, Colin.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Vade on March 28, 2016, 05:57:23 PM
+1 that you're spending so much time and effort to bring this about Gumtown. Should you succeed wine will flow, the people will cheer, and there will be an abundance of cute young animal vids posted in your honor. Now if that doesn't inspire you...
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on April 04, 2016, 02:02:03 AM
More progress, I now have a GK wireless transmitter (packaged in a nice cardboard and tape custom case) which sends 6 GK string audio channels, a normal pickup channel, and streams data for GK-Vol, GK switch, S1 and S2 buttons, and has a DC/DC converter to supply the GK +7 and -7 volts.
And last night magically teleported my GK2A guitar signal wirelessly to my GR-55, albeit short distance since the build currently stops at the I.F stage (intermediate radio frequencies), but now I know that the composite of all the channels and data work, the rest of the UHF design will have to be done on custom circuit board.
I am currently using a 4000mA/h 3.7 volt Panasonic Li-Po cell from a laptop battery, which should run the transmitter for around 20 hours.
The transmitter and receiver have 20+ channels to select, and with the array of programmable chip features, like muting on no signal, it is possible to have one transmitter send to 2 or more receivers (and two or more GR/VG units), either at the same time on the same channel, or two receivers on different channels, and use the two 'favourite channel' buttons on the transmitter to select between one or the other receiver unit.

With good progress so far means the endeavour is still worth pursuing further,
just those OLED graphical displays are a bit noisey on the audio, shielding required to separate the digital and analog.

Once there is something worthy of showing off, might be best to start a new topic.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on April 04, 2016, 04:45:33 AM
Very exciting Gumtown. Great news.
Is there any problems with RF regulations?
I mean are the frequencies "free" to use in most countries?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on April 04, 2016, 04:54:09 AM
Quote from: CodeSmart on April 04, 2016, 04:45:33 AM
Very exciting Gumtown. Great news.
Is there any problems with RF regulations?
I mean are the frequencies "free" to use in most countries?
That will take a little bit of research, many public frequency bands are shifting around an changing at the moment, and the crowded 2.4 & 5.8 GHz bands should be avoided.
I am hoping to find chips flexible enough to enable the user to select their preferred frequency band, between 900Mhz and 1.9GHz is looking pretty good.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on April 04, 2016, 09:03:28 AM
Sounds like you are making awesome progress. I can imagine this supplying wireless hex to Gr and Autotune and maybe FTP as well. Colin, You do have the magic.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on April 18, 2016, 12:48:28 AM
Tackling the mundane things like reducing digital noise in the audio (decoupling and ground planes), voltage ranges, and stuff like chip selection.
Have managed to ruin the first LiPo rechargeable battery by running it down to 2.2 volts (3.7v nominal) in the transmitter.
It lasted 2 1/2 weeks without a charge (80 hours?) , note to myself, add low battery warning and shutdown !!
Now working on menu items like adjustable/programmable audio and compression/limiter levels (separate for N.PU and GK), noise gate/muting thresholds, and inputting your local country/region for legal band selections.
Some more R.F. design and testing before moving on to prototype PCB layouts.
Started building a second receiver also , so I can test switching between 2 VG/GR devices remotely from the transmitter.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Smash on April 18, 2016, 06:55:42 AM
Wow - just caught up with this thread. Proper holy grail stuff!

No idea how you get all this stuff to work but super glad you take the time to do it - such exciting times. MIDI via 1/4 inch jack...wireless GK3....awesome!!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on April 18, 2016, 07:15:46 AM
This sounds amazing. Thanks for the update. Count me in
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: HecticArt on April 18, 2016, 02:33:27 PM
Count me in with the "Count Me In" folks.
I'm in awe that this is something that is growing in someone's spare time without the benefit of a corporate engineering department and development budget.

If you get it to the point of producing some for sale, I'd be interested.
I mean, as long as the cost is somewhere between the value of my car and my liver. (My liver isn't worth nearly as much as it used to be....)




Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on April 18, 2016, 03:19:15 PM
Quote from: HecticArt on April 18, 2016, 02:33:27 PM
Count me in with the "Count Me In" folks.
I'm in awe that this is something that is growing in someone's spare time without the benefit of a corporate engineering department and development budget.

If you get it to the point of producing some for sale, I'd be interested.
I mean, as long as the cost is somewhere between the value of my car and my liver. (My liver isn't worth nearly as much as it used to be....)

Same here
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Smash on April 19, 2016, 04:52:15 AM
I'm in as well - also no idea if you've considered it but if you ever do a kickstarter project for this I'd absolutely invest without hesitation.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: OldGuitarDude on April 20, 2016, 04:06:10 AM
Quote from: Smash on April 19, 2016, 04:52:15 AM
I'm in as well - also no idea if you've considered it but if you ever do a kickstarter project for this I'd absolutely invest without hesitation.

Ditto. I dont think there would be any lack of investors or buyers, at least not here..... Hope you can squeeze this project into your schedule Colin!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Kenmac on April 26, 2016, 09:28:57 AM
Gumtown, here's something I saw on YouTube last night. I hope this doesn't make you feel frustrated or angry.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9ydo4c_C4#)


http://youtu.be/Gbrt2G8lhXU (http://youtu.be/Gbrt2G8lhXU)

http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/ (http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: drbill on April 26, 2016, 09:55:07 AM
This is pretty exciting. Do you see it as something you'd have to install inside the guitar, wear on the strap like a regular wireless, or what?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Smash on April 26, 2016, 10:45:46 AM
The YouTube video shouldn't make him angry or frustrated - whilst it works it's half the job. It only does the 6 hex outputs , no switching functionality or mag output.

Do it once, do it right - Gumtowns got my money :)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on April 26, 2016, 10:47:10 AM
Quote from: Kenmac on April 26, 2016, 09:28:57 AM
Gumtown, here's something I saw on YouTube last night. I hope this doesn't make you feel frustrated or angry.

We have discussed this already here: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13696.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13696.0)

But so far there is no info on this project. No info how to order of build one.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Kenmac on April 26, 2016, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: sixeight on April 26, 2016, 10:47:10 AM
We have discussed this already here: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13696.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13696.0)

But so far there is no info on this project. No info how to order of build one.
I only posted the one video which hadn't been seen up until now. admsustainiac added the second one with the sea foam green strat which I've seen before in the thread you linked to. Sorry, but I didn't realize it was the same person.  :(
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on April 26, 2016, 12:42:52 PM
QuoteI only posted the one video which hadn't been seen up until now. admsustainiac added the second one with the sea foam green strat which I've seen before in the thread you linked to. Sorry, but I didn't realize it was the same person

Sorry -

Just doing house keeping / organizing / merging - to keep the relevant info in one thread

Rocky Wireless GK page, with a few pictures.
http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/# (http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/#)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009925-3087a3181b-public%2FIMG_8572.JPG&hash=fb016b38b013f5b70ee96edac9a4d804cb9cd041)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009922-d1a36d29e1-public%2FIMG_8567.JPG&hash=cc23370a8f3ea1d59d04c917d3c71574c6379c5c)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on April 26, 2016, 01:19:26 PM
QuoteBut so far there is no info on this project. No info how to order of build one.
...but looking at some of the comments in the original video, it looks like this receiver will go into production.

Quote+kulu hara. Currently working on a version that will work with existing or integrated sensors (for example fender ready Roland) System will be on two AA batteries, lasts 8 to 10 hours. Availability next month, soon you will enjoy video and new photos... 

The website does not state this in the English part yet, and I do not read Czech.
http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/ (http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on April 26, 2016, 01:20:17 PM
Here is his Wireless page, with a few pictures.
http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/# (http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/#)!


Still no specifications on that, except it only does the 6 strings of the hex pickup, and requires a separate normal pickup transmitter.
The only other bit of info I have managed to find is that the range is 10~20 feet..

For my design, it does all GK signals, 6 hex channels, 1 normal P.U, S1/S2, GK-Volume, and GK-type (required by the GP-10 for auto GK sensing).
I am optimistically shooting for a range of 1000 metres (user selectable power levels), and 75+ selectable channels over 4 frequency bands.
Transmitter rechargeable with a regular (universal) micro USB phone charger, and it will probably be used on the receiver too, as the internal 7 volt supplies reliability between different Roland units seems a bit variable.
It will be a typical external belt pack, not sure about an internal kit due to the space required.

I am currently waiting on SMD component stock and tools to arrive, R.F. side of things is quite fiddly, making hand etched prototype printed circuit boards.
Very time consuming..
I also ordered a pair of these funky looking watch repair type glasses, my eyes are not like they used to be..
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2FaM0AAOSwgQ9VsRbl%2Fs-l500.jpg&hash=51ff9d468d0375955282dfb5197bb5fb454bccf5)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: drbill on April 26, 2016, 01:30:27 PM
Sweet! Belt pack definitely a better choice, imho. Do you have even a guess as to how much you will need to price these to make it worth your time? Your software has always been free, which never seemed fair to you.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on April 26, 2016, 02:58:22 PM
Dear Colin,
I'll be in NZ mid December and January. Most probably for the only time in my life.
Really would like to meet you for an hour and see this magic :D
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on April 26, 2016, 07:53:42 PM
Quote from: CodeSmart on April 26, 2016, 02:58:22 PM
Dear Colin,
I'll be in NZ mid December and January. Most probably for the only time in my life.
Really would like to meet you for an hour and see this magic :D
We shall make sure that happens  :)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: mbenigni on April 27, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
This is amazing!   :o
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Kenmac on April 27, 2016, 08:53:46 AM
Quote from: admsustainiac on April 26, 2016, 12:42:52 PM
Sorry -

Just doing house keeping / organizing / merging - to keep the relevant info in one thread

Rocky Wireless GK page, with a few pictures.
http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/# (http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/#)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009691-e3fc4e4f78-public%2FIMG_8349.JPG&hash=fdca6503af695d420e8900f338569e484bd6dce8)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009662-c067cc25c4-public%2FIMG_8295.JPG&hash=7d7121c4a587278d4d9aeb32e36b18a51aa9e47e)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009663-30dbf31d6f-public%2FIMG_8304.JPG&hash=ee365673785808097b7c97ef4947df0e3d6859e4)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009664-f2399f3332-public%2FIMG_8305.JPG&hash=f4d413fb6dca05693a2f65f83c667138e76597b1)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009665-c2622c35cd-public%2FIMG_8306.JPG&hash=0ed534ad862381ab20788d3914f2ffe438587461)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009666-c0703c169b-public%2FIMG_8307.JPG&hash=c64b39dc38fe509ea16e158941b0f0fbed6c852b)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009667-e58bfe6891-public%2FIMG_8308.JPG&hash=51041f53cf56a5499f0b060ce160458eb1c94890)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009668-afda3b0d6e-public%2FIMG_8309.JPG&hash=845e24d877b83fd14ba1faa5f5064e083926dc41)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009690-68efb69e7d-public%2FIMG_8348.JPG&hash=b79468c55620a04aef7946d0d22866b2b047a67a)






(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F1162016%2F1461704343_1718755177_Rocky_WirelessGK.PNG&hash=4123a95763b819c99545a6cf82d139a0c451b8b0)


(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.kapela-gibon.cz%2F200009690-68efb69e7d-public%2FIMG_8348.JPG&hash=b79468c55620a04aef7946d0d22866b2b047a67a)

Not a problem. Organization is a good thing.  :)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: kiwimighty on April 28, 2016, 03:52:34 PM

Quote
For my design, it does all GK signals, 6 hex channels, 1 normal P.U, S1/S2, GK-Volume, and GK-type (required by the GP-10 for auto GK sensing).
I am optimistically shooting for a range of 1000 metres (user selectable power levels), and 75+ selectable channels over 4 frequency bands.
Transmitter rechargeable with a regular (universal) micro USB phone charger, and it will probably be used on the receiver too, as the internal 7 volt supplies reliability between different Roland units seems a bit variable.
It will be a typical external belt pack, not sure about an internal kit due to the space required.

I am currently waiting on SMD component stock and tools to arrive, R.F. side of things is quite fiddly, making hand etched prototype printed circuit boards.
Very time consuming..
I also ordered a pair of these funky looking watch repair type glasses, my eyes are not like they used to be..
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2FaM0AAOSwgQ9VsRbl%2Fs-l500.jpg&hash=51ff9d468d0375955282dfb5197bb5fb454bccf5)

Take My money now  !!!! cant wait to see what you come up with.. Chur Bro.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: viramundo on May 22, 2016, 06:22:52 AM
Quote from: gumtown on April 26, 2016, 01:20:17 PM
Here is his Wireless page, with a few pictures.
http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/# (http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/#)!


For my design, it does all GK signals, 6 hex channels, 1 normal P.U, S1/S2, GK-Volume, and GK-type (required by the GP-10 for auto GK sensing).
I am optimistically shooting for a range of 1000 metres (user selectable power levels), and 75+ selectable channels over 4 frequency bands.
Transmitter rechargeable with a regular (universal) micro USB phone charger, and it will probably be used on the receiver too, as the internal 7 volt supplies reliability between different Roland units seems a bit variable.
It will be a typical external belt pack, not sure about an internal kit due to the space required.

I am currently waiting on SMD component stock and tools to arrive, R.F. side of things is quite fiddly, making hand etched prototype printed circuit boards.
Very time consuming..


Sounds amazing, when it gets done I want one, much more suitable for my purposes than the Czech guys design.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: viramundo on May 24, 2016, 05:04:37 PM
The Czech guy Rocky has started selling his wireless system for GR on ebay but wow they aint cheap!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-system-for-Roland-Guitar-synth-GK-/152101201072?hash=item2369f024b0:g:JUAAAOSwR5dXQ2Jw (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-system-for-Roland-Guitar-synth-GK-/152101201072?hash=item2369f024b0:g:JUAAAOSwR5dXQ2Jw)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on May 24, 2016, 07:27:55 PM
$700 sounds about right
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Smash on May 25, 2016, 01:40:51 AM
Really? I know you're well connected in the industry so respect that but if this is right money for hex only, no mag and no control what is right money for Gumtowns full GK spec?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on May 25, 2016, 07:57:11 AM
Anything he wants to charge and have enough margin ( profit) to make the exercise of going into production worthwhile

But I hate to bring it up but due to wide ranging variance of regional  enforcement of FCC /CE global RF emissions compliance regulations , a wireless GK product line invites undesired government attention with possible costly intervention and monetary loss. 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11234.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11234.0)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Smash on May 25, 2016, 12:48:41 PM
Fair comment - and "Argh!!" re: link - nothing is ever easy...
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: viramundo on May 26, 2016, 04:23:19 PM
When answering my question about latency Rocky responded. 'Hey, the delay is 0.5 ms, the device transmits only six strings, the guitar is the main transmitting the smaller box (can be used separately), and both signals are received in that larger box.'

I don't know if that's a lot or not tbh but given the already quite large latency & tracking issues with the GR55 (IMO) maybe I'd be loathe to increase it further.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on May 26, 2016, 04:55:08 PM
Quote'Hey, the [wireless transmision] delay is 0.5 ms,

about the same as FTP and Panda MIDI Beam
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9878.msg70879#msg70879 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9878.msg70879#msg70879)
Andras Szalay wrote>
QuoteWireless Latency: 0.38 milliseconds
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on May 31, 2016, 05:45:25 AM
Still working relentlessly on this concept, while waiting on arrival of some more materials to build the up/down R.F. converters & front end (looking to cover the 520~960Mhz range in 1Mhz steps (about 400 channels selectable) at this stage to cover the new 'legal' wireless mic radio bands), I have been covering other design concepts too.
Below are two concepts which I have been experimenting with.

Full Digital design - after some testing using 2Mbps 2.4 Ghz radio modules, to squeeze all that data down a narrow pipe line, would end up with less than 12bit audio, so to do 7 or 8 channels of 24 bit audio and GK data will require 8 Mbps throughput, so complicated R.F. modulation techniques are required (OFDM), as used in WiFi modules, so I am looking at the 5.8Ghz band for this, and in the near future, there are some crazy 60Ghz WiFi chips on the way.
I have the basic chip programming sorted for A/D D/A packet handling and data transmission, but with the current CPU chip, using C language is too slow, and requires programming in assembly language for a 20x speed update to minimise latency.
I had the 2Mbps wireless GK concept working with 7 channels 8bit audio at a low sampling rate, the sound was truly terrible, definitely needs to be 20~24 bit @ 44.1~48Khz rate, but the concept and transport does work.

Low Tech Analog - Currently building a simple low cost design using double side band modulation  for 'Group' wideband stacking of the audio (reliable method from analog days of old - Frequency Division Multiplexing - FDM), which will utilise a regular analog video input/output, so an ordinary wireless video sender/receiver can be used, there are very miniature low cost modules available for the 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz bands available, such as those used in drone video transmission systems.

but back to the build..
Once I get the 'proof of concept' build finished and working 95%, which are a collection of various strip boards, modules, and hand etched boards, I can then get a few professionally etched prototype circuit boards to assemble. The Wireless GK will be quite configurable as most of the selected chips used in the Transmitter and Receiver are very programmable with options.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on May 31, 2016, 09:58:50 AM
Sounds awesome. Count me in :)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on July 14, 2016, 06:38:09 PM
Starting to get somewhere again, successfully have an R.F local oscillator software programmable from 140Mhz to up over 1.1Ghz with a steady and consistant output.
A bit painful having to build your own chip interface software libraries.
Successfully soldered a few QFN20 chip packages to a board too, my first attempt at installing SMD chips.

So I am still working on 3 different technologies in 3 different wireless projects, some initial designs have failed due to flawed concept,
but I am able to take that in stride and keep pushing forward, and build up the pile of rejected prototype boards..

There are some very high tech chips and modules out there, but very difficult for those suppliers to share any information on the product.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: RogerVG8EX on July 28, 2016, 10:53:46 AM
Gumtown, I haven't tried it yet, I am currently working with 24 pin synths and in a few weeks I'm going to start a 13 to 24 pin converter project. The next project is the substitution of a 13 pin output jack with a DB15 and after that I can try the wireless guitar synth.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on July 28, 2016, 11:05:36 AM
Quotein a few weeks I'm going to start a 13 to 24 pin converter project.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11980.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11980.0)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F1662014%2F1402957533_2146533316_BC13.PNG&hash=b1f1a504120ed205c7b6ae2dd6beaf3f20d8db8e)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on July 28, 2016, 06:48:19 PM
On the other hand..
the digital version of the project I have settled on using 4 x PCM1803 for A/D conversion and PCM1770 for D/A conversion.
Been looking at packetizing the data and seem to have come up with something so similar to ADAT format, that I might as well do it as ADAT format.
8ch x 24bit 48kHz NRZI encoding in a 256bit packet with reserved proprietary bits (for the GK controls).
the Raw digital audio would be at a rate just over 12Mbps, with NRZI encoding, it would be around 6Mbps.
This leaves a spare audio channel for either a second guitar in/out or a headset microphone.
If I put an optical I/O in the project, it could double as an 8 track ADAT interface for recording from the guitar, or ADAT playback into the receiver unit.
It may also be possible to utilise the system also as a wireless ADAT interface.
Have some WiFi modules on order capable of up to 72Mbps data rate.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Smash on July 29, 2016, 01:13:02 AM
Digital upcycling - love it!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on July 29, 2016, 08:20:32 AM
Looking forward to your progress with this

Ive wanted a hex Pickup guitar with optical ADAT interface for years

QuoteOn the other hand..
the digital version of the project I have settled on using 4 x PCM1803 for A/D conversion and PCM1770 for D/A conversion.
Been looking at packetizing the data and seem to have come up with something so similar to ADAT format, that I might as well do it as ADAT format.
8ch x 24bit 48kHz NRZI encoding in a 256bit packet with reserved proprietary bits (for the GK controls).
the Raw digital audio would be at a rate just over 12Mbps, with NRZI encoding, it would be around 6Mbps.
This leaves a spare audio channel for either a second guitar in/out or a headset microphone.
If I put an optical I/O in the project, it could double as an 8 track ADAT interface for recording from the guitar, or ADAT playback into the receiver unit.
It may also be possible to utilise the system also as a wireless ADAT interface.
Have some WiFi modules on order capable of up to 72Mbps data rate.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: imerkat on August 02, 2016, 07:44:29 AM
So i know I'm getting ahead of the process but what's the form factor of the receiver? are we talking half rack, or 1u rack mount?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on August 02, 2016, 04:10:03 PM
Haven't given the form factor much thought yet, so far I just envisage a rectangular box that sits on the floor.

I personally have a dislike for plastic rack unit enclosures, and metal ones add significantly to the price (no idea on that either at this stage).
Of the 3 concurrent design projects, I have now eliminated one, so the remaining two will be

1.) a general consumer short range (50~100 mtrs) WiFi digital model - probably as a compact sized receiver.

2.) a semi pro 900MHz (possibly insertable R.F. modules to suit specific countries/radio bands 170MHz to 1GHz) long range (~1000 mtrs) hybrid model - probably rack mounted receiver.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on August 10, 2016, 02:58:04 PM
Been looking at various WiFi RF modules, and I came across this new to the market one..
http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/wysbhvgxg/60682?mpart=WYSBHVGXG&vendor=587 (http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/wysbhvgxg/60682?mpart=WYSBHVGXG&vendor=587)

Data Rate:433.3Mbps
•Frequency:2.4GHz, 5GHz
•Mounting Type:Surface Mount
•Operating Temperature:-30°C ~ 85°C
•Package / Case:Module
•Packaging:Tape & Reel (TR)

•Power - Output:14dBm
•Protocol:802.11a/b/g/n, Bluetooth v4.2
•RF Family/Standard:Bluetooth, WiFi
•Sensitivity:-87dBm
•Serial Interfaces:SPI
•Voltage - Supply:3.3V

then looked up it's data sheet
http://www.yuden.co.jp/wireless_module/document/datareport2/en/TY_WLAN_WYSBHVGXG_DataReport_V1.1_20160331E.pdf (http://www.yuden.co.jp/wireless_module/document/datareport2/en/TY_WLAN_WYSBHVGXG_DataReport_V1.1_20160331E.pdf)

and damn... the thing is only 10mm square, how do they make them so small?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Majiken on August 13, 2016, 11:11:39 AM
I understand maybe half of this at best, and I'm already drooling all over myself  :o! I am SO looking forward to this project maturing. Also wondering what incredible thing might happen when you and Robert put your heads together ;-).

Don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but here in Europe (at least in Germany) the 2.4 GHz band is hopelessly overloaded, so I am happy to see the 5 GHz option being considered.

Best, Kenny
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: ( . )( . ) on September 03, 2016, 07:34:20 AM
I'm definitely bookmarking this one... :o
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on October 17, 2016, 12:53:43 PM
How are you doing on this project, Gumtown? Haven't seen any updates lately. Is the project on hold? Need some encouragement...
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on October 17, 2016, 01:13:27 PM
Quote from: sixeight on October 17, 2016, 12:53:43 PM
How are you doing on this project, Gumtown? Haven't seen any updates lately. Is the project on hold? Need some encouragement...

Yeah! I'll give some encouragement as well  :P
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on October 18, 2016, 12:22:03 PM
Had a series of events which had slowed me down recently,
a work project in my regular day time job requiring long days, and a few set backs with the project.
Been playing with PIC micro MX32 chips and the MPLABX with Harmony framework, as I need something ultra fast to encode and decode 8 audio streams.
After many hours of frustration, I discovered that out of the 5 pack of PIC micro chips, only 1 worked, although all 5 have been plugged into the same board.
Must have been a bad batch?

With the Hybrid version, I have been playing around with various compander designs, and trying to locate a source of digital noise, which I suspect is from the OLED display.

So I am still working on the project, but with a few recent setbacks, there has been nothing new to report (in good news) ... so far..
Still doing the R & D stuff.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on October 19, 2016, 12:51:14 AM
I know how it feels...the day job is a burdon 8)
However, watch out for industrial espionage. Foreign intelligence might sneak around your area just a few days before Xmas with a portable antenna, metal detector and Geiger counter, searching for signs of wireless activity. However I'm afraid I'm not sure what you do to trespassers in your country. You offer hailshots or coffee...? ;D
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on October 19, 2016, 01:05:49 AM
Quote from: CodeSmart on October 19, 2016, 12:51:14 AM
I know how it feels...the day job is a burdon 8)
However, watch out for industrial espionage. Foreign intelligence might sneak around your area just a few days before Xmas with a portable antenna, metal detector and Geiger counter, searching for signs of wireless activity. However I'm afraid I'm not sure what you do to trespassers in your country. You offer hailshots or coffee...? ;D

Coffee or beer in this case..  ;D
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumbo on October 19, 2016, 07:10:02 AM
...but watch out for the Wild Feral Sheep....  :o    they're trained to seek out foreigners..
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: michaiel on May 24, 2017, 10:18:38 AM
Any update on this from gumtown yet?

I sure everyone has seen these videos...i have contacted the guy, but never received a reply...may be a hoax?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9ydo4c_C4&t=50s
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on May 24, 2017, 11:14:42 AM
Here is the one from  Czechoslovakia - but he has not built any more since 2016
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2588.msg128297#msg128297
http://www.kapela-gibon.cz/roland-gr55-wireless-system/#
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: michaiel on May 24, 2017, 11:51:26 AM
Thats the guy I contacted...I think a lot of us here on the forum would be interested in one of these...

Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Elantric on May 24, 2017, 12:12:08 PM
QuoteThats the guy I contacted...I think a lot of us here on the forum would be interested in one of these...

The Wireless GK hurdles will be

* added latency

* less dynamic range  / higher noise floor for COSM Guitar modeling

* FCC Compliance
FCC / CE Standards have teeth
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11234.msg81966#msg81966
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: adamlee011 on July 19, 2017, 11:52:10 AM
Don't give up! You have another taker here! I think there's a magnet embedded in my gk cable with its brother under my fc300 volume pedal. EVERY... SINGLE.... TIME!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: rowka on January 28, 2018, 09:13:38 AM
Just another bit of encouragement for gumtown.

Take my money!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: jefersontorres on July 17, 2018, 08:20:36 PM
Hi! I'm posting here to encourage you guys to create some kind of system one can use to go wireless with Roland GR55. I'm from Brazil, and I'm sure it would be a sucess seller. Just love my GR55, but I really wish I could go wireless...
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BladesToyShop on August 11, 2018, 03:52:36 PM
Quote from: gumtown on August 10, 2016, 02:58:04 PM
Been looking at various WiFi RF modules, and I came across this new to the market one..
http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/wysbhvgxg/60682?mpart=WYSBHVGXG&vendor=587 (http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/wysbhvgxg/60682?mpart=WYSBHVGXG&vendor=587)

Data Rate:433.3Mbps
•Frequency:2.4GHz, 5GHz
•Mounting Type:Surface Mount
•Operating Temperature:-30°C ~ 85°C
•Package / Case:Module
•Packaging:Tape & Reel (TR)

•Power - Output:14dBm
•Protocol:802.11a/b/g/n, Bluetooth v4.2
•RF Family/Standard:Bluetooth, WiFi
•Sensitivity:-87dBm
•Serial Interfaces:SPI
•Voltage - Supply:3.3V

then looked up it's data sheet
http://www.yuden.co.jp/wireless_module/document/datareport2/en/TY_WLAN_WYSBHVGXG_DataReport_V1.1_20160331E.pdf (http://www.yuden.co.jp/wireless_module/document/datareport2/en/TY_WLAN_WYSBHVGXG_DataReport_V1.1_20160331E.pdf)

and damn... the thing is only 10mm square, how do they make them so small?


Put the board in something the size of a Boss or DOD foot pedal, like Boss did with the WL-50 on the receiver side; I'm not quite sure how to handle the transmitter side due to the power requirements.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on August 31, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
https://www.rfvenue.com/resources

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/316692/Three_Essential_Concepts_in_Wireless_Audio_rev2.pdf?t=1535731355742
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on March 05, 2020, 11:03:38 AM
WISA Wireless Audio
Audio Latency:  8 channels  = 2.6ms a@ 96kHz sample rates (5.1ms @ 48kHz),
https://www.techhive.com/article/3378198/wisa-low-latency-wireless-multi-channel-audio-standard.html

https://www.wisaassociation.org/


http://www.summitwireless.com/uploads/6/5/9/2/65922691/tx_dongle_pt%EC%9E%90%EB%A3%8C_v2.pdf


Development Transmitter &Receiver boards now available

(https://www.profusionplc.com/images/outlines/sws997-rx.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J4YTQYvp/summit-rcvr.png)
http://www.summitwireless.com/uploads/6/5/9/2/65922691/summit_sd_rx_mod_pb_v1.1.pdf
https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/sws997sd-rx-module


Transmitter
(https://i.postimg.cc/4yN56p5C/summit-trnsmtr.png)
https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/swm908sd-tx-module


Development Transmitter board  - for Raspberry Pi  - works with latest 7.1 Soundbars ( LG, Onkyo, Harman, etc
https://www.wisaassociation.org/
https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/tx-dev

http://www.summitwireless.com/uploads/6/5/9/2/65922691/summit_tx_devkit_pb_v1.0_2.pdf

One stop shop for all hardware needed here
https://www.profusionplc.com/pdf/2019cat-web.pdf
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: adamlee011 on September 08, 2020, 01:29:01 AM
Wow. Took me a min to figure out what thread I was being alerted to. Didn't expect this one to wake up soon. 👍
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: schfiftyfive on November 15, 2020, 03:43:48 PM
A wireless unit to replace my 13-pin cable to GR-55 would be lovely. I have emailed the Czech guy (bounces) and run down several leads. If this becomes available someone please hit me up. Some of the places I play I'm already tethered to an in-ear belt-loop box. If I could shake the 13-pin cable, I'd work on the wireless in-ear next.

If someone has the schematics and was looking for motivation, I recon cable freedom would be worth several hundred USD. In the market now. Thanks All :D
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: adamlee011 on November 16, 2020, 01:41:56 AM
The Fishman hex pup uses Bluetooth. Does it send only midi? Would bt be a possibility?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: kenact on November 17, 2020, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: adamlee011 on November 16, 2020, 01:41:56 AM
The Fishman hex pup uses Bluetooth. Does it send only midi? Would bt be a possibility?

Not for a GK3 pickup. The GK3 transmits 6 individual analog signals, which are converted to midi inside the synth.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on November 17, 2020, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: adamlee011 on November 16, 2020, 01:41:56 AM
The Fishman hex pup uses Bluetooth. Does it send only midi? Would bt be a possibility?

Fishman Tripleplay does NOT use Bluetooth

It uses a proprietary 2.4GHz wireless protocol-its why its supplied with a proprietary USB Wireless receiver -which provides MIDI OUTPUT to the Host Computer
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BluCoE on February 18, 2021, 01:01:47 PM
Hello everybody,

I developed a prototype for a GK Wireless system. I posted some demo video's on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvlO4GNIUG0&list=PLpiEQqD2GQorRBHNEjf4v2WtOR8nCbdwm

If everything goes as expected I will commercialize it in the coming months. If there is enough interest in the product?
Please let me know what you think about it. Thanks!

Regards,
Rico

https://www.blucoe.eu/faq/

Here are some more clarification video's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw9-Y0Psow8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fbI9e6GZVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ_mJTRDRew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJwGDXeVyzI&t=1s
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on February 18, 2021, 01:08:10 PM
Congratulations !!  :)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: cags12 on February 18, 2021, 01:08:16 PM
I was literally starting my research to offer a wireless solution using the WiSA chips. Great you beat me to it :).
Albeit it would have been a monumental task to me.

Is this solution using WiSA too? Can you give more details about the wireless technology being used?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: adamlee011 on February 18, 2021, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: BluCoE on February 18, 2021, 01:01:47 PM
Hello everybody,

I developed a prototype for a GK Wireless system. I posted some demo video's on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvlO4GNIUG0&list=PLpiEQqD2GQorRBHNEjf4v2WtOR8nCbdwm

If everything goes as expected I will commercialize it in the coming months. If there is enough interest in the product?
Please let me know what you think about it. Thanks!

Regards,
Rico
that's amazing. Is the latency the video, the gr, or the wireless?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on February 18, 2021, 02:04:38 PM
Many gelukwensen BluCoE!
Great work! I'll buy one.

Homepage says default latency 18ms corresponding to 6m/19ft air distance from an amp. Sampling rate 48kHz.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: adamlee011 on February 18, 2021, 04:36:34 PM
Quote from:  Bluesbird on February 18, 2021, 03:03:13 PM
So adding in the GR55 latency you would be at 35 (high e) to 50 feet (low E) from your amplifier.  Ouch.

Yea. That's what I was thinking. I would like to see how it does with a vg or the like.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: adamlee011 on February 18, 2021, 04:38:13 PM
Still, this is a pretty big step for wireless gk, right? This thread has been dead forever.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: aliensporebomb on February 18, 2021, 04:43:36 PM
The package looks like a fully realized product rather than a garage shoppe experience.

I could see this working well with VG best not necessarily synth.  Really intriguing. 

If the player is using a wireless for his regular guitar signal why not a special GK wireless to go with it?

UNLEASHED!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on February 18, 2021, 06:18:00 PM
Awesome
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on February 18, 2021, 07:41:20 PM
Quote from: BluCoE on February 18, 2021, 01:01:47 PM
Hello everybody,

I developed a prototype for a GK Wireless system. I posted some demo video's on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvlO4GNIUG0&list=PLpiEQqD2GQorRBHNEjf4v2WtOR8nCbdwm

If everything goes as expected I will commercialize it in the coming months. If there is enough interest in the product?
Please let me know what you think about it. Thanks!

Regards,
Rico

Here are some more clarification video's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw9-Y0Psow8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fbI9e6GZVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ_mJTRDRew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJwGDXeVyzI&t=1s

https://www.blucoe.eu/gkws/

https://www.blucoe.eu/cannot-wait-buy-a-prototype/
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BluCoE on February 18, 2021, 11:59:00 PM
There is a trade-off between latency and link robustness (cq range). Currently the latency is set to about 15ms - 18ms. I am still trying to strengthen the RF signal so that I can go a bit lower with the latency, but there will always be latency.

There is also latency on the GR55, but that depends on the selected patch. Some patches have high latency and some low. The total latency will be the sum of the wireless and the patch.

What is acceptable latency is a personal decision. Some people claim to start noticing at 1ms, some at 20ms or higher. For me personally at 18ms, I don't notice any latency difference against the cable. You must decide for yourself what is acceptable. You can experiment by moving away from your guitar amplifier. Each foot is 1ms, or each meter is 3ms.

I saw a nice video on YouTube about latency perception.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxj_Cg6Fc_Y&t=66s

As an alternative setup you can use a plain guitar wireless system for normal guitar and the GK wireless for your synth/modeler. I measured the Sure GLXD16 to only have 5ms latency. For the GR55 you have higher latency in any case, also with the DIN cable.

I will make some latency measurements for a number of GR55 patches to visualize what the actual total latency is and post them later.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: cags12 on February 19, 2021, 03:45:53 AM
Looking forward to try this out.

The reason I was starting to look at the WiSA chips was because they operate at 2.6ms latency. The delay is fixed – it is not impacted by RF interference, distance between transmitter and receivers, or  number of audio channels.

https://www.summitwireless.com/summit-pro-wisa/

May I ask if you could share a bit more info on the Wireless technology, what frequency is it operating? proprietary standard?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BluCoE on February 19, 2021, 04:13:46 AM
Quote from: cags12 on February 19, 2021, 03:45:53 AM
Looking forward to try this out.

The reason I was starting to look at the WiSA chips was because they operate at 2.6ms latency. The delay is fixed – it is not impacted by RF interference, distance between transmitter and receivers, or  number of audio channels.

https://www.summitwireless.com/summit-pro-wisa/

May I ask if you could share a bit more info on the Wireless technology, what frequency is it operating? proprietary standard?

I didn't know the WISA chips, but it seems interesting and will read up on it. My design is based on the CC8530 chip from Texas Instruments. It uses the 2.4GHz ISM band and provides RF proprietary channel hopping for robustness. But if you read my website (in progress), you can get more info. https://www.blucoe.eu/faq/
Or look up the datasheet. https://www.ti.com/product/CC8530
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BROCKSTAR on February 19, 2021, 05:13:01 AM
Everything is possible if people put time in it :D Smart people anyway (not me) lol... Excited to see how that wireless gk thing goes. I'd love to be wireless even if i just sit in front of my desk, just like the feel of freedom of moving without a hanging cable.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: adamlee011 on February 19, 2021, 05:25:56 AM
Quote from: BluCoE on February 19, 2021, 04:13:46 AM

Great details, thanks. I use vg99 and 88 which is why I asked. Latency isn't part of my vocabulary. Even though I've been a Roland guitar guy forever, I've never had a gr or played with midi much.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on February 19, 2021, 08:49:58 AM
Excellent work. I am definitely interested.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: kevorkian on February 19, 2021, 09:30:54 AM
This looks really great. I'm also very interested.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: Mikko127 on February 19, 2021, 04:00:02 PM
Very interested in this product. Please put into production ASAP.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on February 19, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
I contacted them earlier today.  Looks like will be available in Europe soon, but US sounded a little iffy or far off. I would really like this
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: thebrushwithin on February 19, 2021, 04:46:59 PM
Maybe they would be interested in a bulk, group buy sort of thing.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on February 19, 2021, 05:38:20 PM
That might be cool
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: CodeSmart on February 20, 2021, 12:38:34 AM
"They" are probably one guy and he's scared about FCC regulations. From what I have understod it is YOU as importers that are doing something "illegal" when you buy something from abroad that does not have the FC stamp on it.

What BluCoE has to realize is that he will find most of his sales within US at least when promoting on this forum.

Of 100 sold units, 70-75 will go to the US, 5 to AUS/NZ, 1 to Asia and the rest to Europe. Something in that ballpark. Numbers by own experience.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BluCoE on February 20, 2021, 01:03:57 AM
The USA is definitely the next region on my wish list, but I am a startup company and it is another big investment to pay a notified body for FCC certification. So the plan is to use the money from EU sales for certifications in other regions. It will take some time but it is coming. Thanks.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumbo on February 20, 2021, 02:38:46 AM
Quote from: CodeSmart on February 20, 2021, 12:38:34 AM
"They" are probably one guy and he's scared about FC regulations. From what I have understod it is YOU as importers that are doing something "illegal" when you buy something from abroad that does not have the FC stamp on it.

What BluCoE has to realize is that he will find most of his sales within US at least when promoting on this forum.

Of 100 sold units, 70-75 will go to the US, 5 to AUS/NZ, 1 to Asia and the rest to Europe. Something in that ballpark. Numbers by own experience.

Well said, Robert...

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BluCoE on February 20, 2021, 03:46:29 AM
Quote from: CodeSmart on February 20, 2021, 12:38:34 AM
"They" are probably one guy and he's scared about FC regulations. From what I have understod it is YOU as importers that are doing something "illegal" when you buy something from abroad that does not have the FC stamp on it.

What BluCoE has to realize is that he will find most of his sales within US at least when promoting on this forum.

Of 100 sold units, 70-75 will go to the US, 5 to AUS/NZ, 1 to Asia and the rest to Europe. Something in that ballpark. Numbers by own experience.

This is a grey area at least. If I send a device without FCC certification to a consumer in the US, I know that he/she cannot legally use it, and therefore they can keep me responsible. Especially, if many devices with my company logo turn up. Unless you are a reseller who certifies it before selling, I am not allowed to sell to the US without FCC certification.

Besides that, I do not want to start out this way. I want to be a honest, responsible and legal company. I will get there the right way. Just takes some more time.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on February 20, 2021, 04:41:20 AM
I'm sure you're right!   They/he needs to get FCC approval so he can ship to the US
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BROCKSTAR on February 20, 2021, 06:56:47 AM
Yeah doing it right is the only way to build trust among consumers and so it doesn't have any faults along the way.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: thebrushwithin on February 20, 2021, 07:31:58 AM
Sell the design to Roland ?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumbo on February 20, 2021, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: thebrushwithin on February 20, 2021, 07:31:58 AM
Sell the design to Roland ?

...and then watch it disappear for another ten years ?  ::)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: chrish on February 20, 2021, 01:47:59 PM
Welcome to the forum BluCoE. That's quite an introduction. :)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on February 20, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
Hi BluCoE great to see your wireless GK design is out there.
By now you will be hearing all sorts of ideas from everyone on how and what you should do, and what features they want in your design,
and then the naysayers who only have negativity that it can't be done.

Don't listen listen to the bombardment from others, stay true to your plan to do as you set out, these will sell.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: BluCoE on February 21, 2021, 12:11:00 AM
Thank you for your support gumtown! In fact, thanks everybody for your comments. It gave me some valuable insights.

I think the question of this thread has been answered. Yes, a wireless GK pickup is possible.
There is a tiny market for it, mainly in the US. But as it looks now, it is not worth the investment to make a product of it.
Maybe that is the reason why Roland has not come up with a wireless product themselves?

But some people are very enthusiastic, so here is what I will do.
I will keep my website live for the coming time and keep recording the emails of prospective buyers and the region they are from.
Only, once I have 350+ prospective buyers for a region, I will contact them and propose a bulk production project.
Then, I will get the required certification for that region and pass on the cost to the sales price.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on February 21, 2021, 12:37:18 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/4yN56p5C/summit-trnsmtr.png)

Depending on the protocol-there may be pre approved CE/FCC compliant wireless modules to build from

(Like the WISA MODULES HERE
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2588.msg204114#msg204114

That's how Roland/Boss implemented Bluetooth on GT-1000 (pre approved CE/FCC compliant wireless module)

But each global region has unique RF compliance  rules, and (sadly) its often a competing music company who feels threatened in the marketplace and blows the whistle and raise awareness to the FCC about your product.

Some get around FCC compliance certification by  selling the item as a DIY STEM TRAINING hobby Kit.

Further reading

FCC / CE Standards have teeth
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11234.msg81966#msg81966

I can add, prior to my forced retirement from QSC Audio ( April 2020), I was the FCC/CE /UL compliance Engineer and have brought dozens of DSP Audio products through the certification process- PM me if you need assistance or want to bounce ideas.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: GuitarBuilder on May 03, 2021, 08:29:46 AM
Quote from: BluCoE on February 21, 2021, 12:11:00 AM
Thank you for your support gumtown! In fact, thanks everybody for your comments. It gave me some valuable insights.

I think the question of this thread has been answered. Yes, a wireless GK pickup is possible.
There is a tiny market for it, mainly in the US. But as it looks now, it is not worth the investment to make a product of it.
Maybe that is the reason why Roland has not come up with a wireless product themselves?

But some people are very enthusiastic, so here is what I will do.
I will keep my website live for the coming time and keep recording the emails of prospective buyers and the region they are from.
Only, once I have 350+ prospective buyers for a region, I will contact them and propose a bulk production project.
Then, I will get the required certification for that region and pass on the cost to the sales price.
Have you considered a Kickstarter campaign to cover FCC certification costs?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: rog85 on September 23, 2021, 05:53:37 PM
Hello everyone, I found this very interesting, I hope I have helped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBTU5koh6og
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on September 23, 2021, 06:41:09 PM
I see someone recently has a prototype, and is doing the Facebook Group rounds, promoting its sales.


https://www.facebook.com/diegomaderal/videos/907289116584481 (https://www.facebook.com/diegomaderal/videos/907289116584481)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on September 23, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: gumtown on September 23, 2021, 06:41:09 PM
I see someone recently has a prototype, and is doing the Facebook Group rounds, promoting its sales.


https://www.facebook.com/diegomaderal/videos/907289116584481 (https://www.facebook.com/diegomaderal/videos/907289116584481)

https://www.blucoe.eu/faq/

Hes still seeking  preliminary interest
(https://i.postimg.cc/9F48mxPH/bluco.jpg)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on December 31, 2021, 03:09:42 AM
Quote from: admin on September 23, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
https://www.blucoe.eu/faq/

Hes still seeking  preliminary interest
(https://i.postimg.cc/9F48mxPH/bluco.jpg)

Apparently limited numbers of these are now shipping in Europe Dec 2021
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on December 31, 2021, 03:15:11 AM
https://youtu.be/6flofQAnXd8
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on December 31, 2021, 03:18:35 AM
https://m.facebook.com/groups/VGuitarForums/permalink/1881368848919192/

(https://i.postimg.cc/zDsZG3kC/Screenshot-20211231-030906-Chrome.jpg)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on December 31, 2021, 12:09:30 PM
On sale now

https://www.blucoe.eu/
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumbo on December 31, 2021, 02:09:21 PM
Hmmm...

by the time it gets here in Oz, including GST (VAT) and freight and whatever else our government and postal authorities will throw at it, it will be well over 1000 AUD...then there's the issue of its probable yes-or-no compliance with Australian wireless transmission rules ... .....maybe I'll wait for the moment and still keep making Jacks..

...great idea though...

;)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on December 31, 2021, 02:43:56 PM
Almost just bought one of these .
Has anyone, of the European members , tried one of these wireless 13 pin units yet?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on January 13, 2022, 06:58:24 AM
Quote from: admin on March 05, 2020, 11:03:38 AM
WISA Wireless Audio
Audio Latency:  8 channels  = 2.6ms a@ 96kHz sample rates (5.1ms @ 48kHz),
https://www.techhive.com/article/3378198/wisa-low-latency-wireless-multi-channel-audio-standard.html

https://www.wisaassociation.org/


http://www.summitwireless.com/uploads/6/5/9/2/65922691/tx_dongle_pt%EC%9E%90%EB%A3%8C_v2.pdf


Development Transmitter &Receiver boards now available

(https://www.profusionplc.com/images/outlines/sws997-rx.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J4YTQYvp/summit-rcvr.png)
http://www.summitwireless.com/uploads/6/5/9/2/65922691/summit_sd_rx_mod_pb_v1.1.pdf
https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/sws997sd-rx-module


Transmitter
(https://i.postimg.cc/4yN56p5C/summit-trnsmtr.png)
https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/swm908sd-tx-module


Development Transmitter board  - for Raspberry Pi  - works with latest 7.1 Soundbars ( LG, Onkyo, Harman, etc
https://www.wisaassociation.org/
https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/tx-dev

http://www.summitwireless.com/uploads/6/5/9/2/65922691/summit_tx_devkit_pb_v1.0_2.pdf

One stop shop for all hardware needed here
https://www.profusionplc.com/pdf/2019cat-web.pdf

https://www.summitwireless.com/
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: admin on January 13, 2022, 06:59:50 AM
Quote from: whippinpost91850 on December 31, 2021, 02:43:56 PM
Almost just bought one of these .
Has anyone, of the European members , tried one of these wireless 13 pin units yet?

One facebook member just took delivery of BluCoe GK Wireless
https://m.facebook.com/groups/VGuitarForums/permalink/1891215861267824/?ref=m_notif&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic

(https://i.postimg.cc/Fsh5ftQs/img-1-1643947994607.jpg)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: roachone on August 20, 2022, 05:28:18 PM
Has anyone here on Vguitarforum actually heard or seen one of these?  I would love to buy one of these!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on August 20, 2022, 05:43:14 PM
The member doesn't appear to have said anything about it one way or the other :-\  :-\
I know I sure would like to know about it
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: gumtown on August 20, 2022, 06:32:33 PM
I just stirred up a couple of F.B groups which have had previous discussion on the BluCo GK wireless,

I asked the question that if there is no user discussion on the product, then I can only assume it is a failure ?

That might stir up a response from some of the device users.
Kind of odd that there has been a blanket silence from all the owners of the product.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on August 20, 2022, 06:39:35 PM
I agree the complete silence is rather odd
I so much wanted it to work
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on August 28, 2022, 04:18:14 AM
I sent a message to Rico, the guy from BluCoE. Here is his response:

"The product has been officially certified for CE, FCC and IC for a long time, so that's no problem. But it's a lot of work to produce manually and it's a low priority in my opinion because there's not much to be gained from it. I still make batches every now and then, but they quickly go up to people on the waiting list, so nothing for sale appears on the website."

You can join the waiting list and wait for your turn.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on October 05, 2022, 08:31:04 AM
I received something in the mail today...

(https://i.postimg.cc/J4bnK39C/IMG-20221005-172452692.jpg)

Batteries are still charging and I have a meeting this evening. But I will keep you posted.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on October 05, 2022, 09:59:27 AM
Awesome! Can't wait to hear your analysis 😊
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: simon t on October 05, 2022, 12:35:54 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: HecticArt on October 05, 2022, 09:46:14 PM
Cool!
Looking forward to the review!
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on October 06, 2022, 10:41:24 AM
Batteries are charged. Time to plug it in! And.... it works!

The unit was sold to me with the comment: "It is still a prototype and there are some minor issues, which you can find here: https://www.blucoe.eu/faq/ (https://www.blucoe.eu/faq/). Check if you can live with that, before you buy one."

So here is a quick first impression:
* Connection between sender and receiver is established within a second after switching on the sender. Almost instant.
* All signals, including the normal guitar pickup are sent through the unit.
* Noise is not too bad. But I don't do very high gain patches. Perfectly usable. Signals seem to have the same level as a connection through a GK cable.
* I do notice noise in the GK signals when using the GK volume or GK switches. With hi-gain patches, this is quite loud.
* I managed to hit the power switch on the GK Sender twice and accidently turn it off. So be careful when you sit down.
* The GK sender uses 18650 Li-ion batteries. These are a lot bigger than normal AA batteries and they are quite heavy. This does make the Sender a bit bulky, but it is OK.
* Latency: the wireless system adds 16 ms of latency. On my system this makes the total latency very noticable and it does make playing feel a bit disconnected. My signal chain: GKWS => SY-1000 => HX stomp => M-audio Profire 2626. When I plugged headphones straight into the HX stomp it was getting better.

I will do some more testing later. I may try it at church one day and see how it behaves in a room with 150 mobile phones.

Let me know if you have any questions or if you want me to do any tests.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: HecticArt on October 06, 2022, 04:13:10 PM
It sounds promising sixeight.
Since it's still in the prototype stage, does it sound like some of the latency and noise issues might still be getting refined?
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on October 06, 2022, 08:20:45 PM
Thanks for the initial update. Keep them coming
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: roachone on October 20, 2022, 07:06:28 PM
Any more info SixEight? Did you try it at Church? That sounds like quite a bit of latency to me.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on October 21, 2022, 01:01:58 PM
Quote from: roachone on October 20, 2022, 07:06:28 PMAny more info SixEight? Did you try it at Church? That sounds like quite a bit of latency to me.

Not. I haven't had much time lately to work on this. Much going on in life currently and not a suitable moment yet to test this.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: roachone on October 24, 2022, 04:05:30 PM
Gotcha. Keep us updated. Thanks.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: sixeight on December 26, 2022, 08:09:56 AM
I was contacted by the builder of the wireless GK if I wanted an update of the unit to improve the noise in high gain patches. So the unit has been sent down and up the Netherlands. The noise has been improved, so that is excellent.

I also had a discussion about the latency. But there is not much to be gained here unfortunately. Maybe one 1 millisecond could be removed, at the risk of the unit not properly resending data when there is a data error. So no changes have been made here.

I hope to do a video review soon, so you guys get an idea of what the unit is capable of.
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: roachone on December 26, 2022, 08:27:20 AM
Thanks for the reply!! unfortunately , seems the latency is going to be the death of this unit but I look forward to seeing your video. Thanks again, Richard
Title: Re: Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
Post by: whippinpost91850 on December 26, 2022, 11:29:03 AM
That would be awesome