Boss GR-D V-Guitar Distortion & Boss GR-S V-Guitar Space

Started by Orren Merton, November 01, 2012, 02:48:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Orren Merton

After many years of no 13-pin twin pedal format V-Guitar processors on the market, Roland has just announced two new ones:

GR-D V-Guitar Distortion: http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1255/475

GR-S V-Guitar Space: http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1256/475

In my dreams, they'd release one just for guitar models, and one just for wave models...

Orren

Elantric

#1
The GR-S looks promising - but if its $499 MSRP and $399 street - I would just get another GR-55 with our Group Buy.

http://en.audiofanzine.com/electric-guitar-multi-effects/roland/gr-s-v-guitar-space/news/a.play,n.14627.html







and GR-D Distortion


Brent Flash

I just can't imagine why they would not put a "GK THRU" on these things. ???

Elantric

QuoteI just can't imagine why they would not put a GK through on these things. ???

Probably a result of not wanting to destroy Roland US-20 A/B/Y Pedal sales
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/61

(DIY version is here:)
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/us-20/


and due to the constraint for this pair of new products to use the existing stock of chassis they built for the old 2001 era Boss WP-20G Wave pedal

(observe the identical Boss WP-20G Wave pedal Chassis below)



http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=166
http://ericsgearpage.blogspot.com/2012/08/boss-wp-20g-wave-processor.html

Compare above 10 year old pedal  with the "new" GR-D here:


Not sure what the price will be - but it might be more attractive price / performance  to simply buy a used 2001 Roland VG-88 on Ebay

Here's one with hard case for $220
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-VG-88-Guitar-Pedal-VIRTUAL-MIDI-SYNTH-FLOOR-MODULE-HARDSHELL-SUITCASE-/121008606148?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1c2caccbc4

Brent Flash

Could be! Maybe someone could come up with a dongle type device that will split all in a small enclosure. The way it is now if you have more than one GK you can only use one at a time. I know we have talked about this before but if they keep coming out with GK devices maybe it's time to build a splitter that powers the GK off the first device and passes the audio on to another GK in.

Elantric

#5
Quotemaybe it's time to build a splitter that powers the GK off the first device and passes the audio on to another GK in.


Agreed - or build a DIY "13 pin "Y cord" splitter:


gandolf

imagine if you could also accommodate a variax / line6 setup...

i think you'd need to have an extra 6 pins to the guitar to switch-box cable.....

it would be a "guitar and pedal switch" to rule them all!

oddguitar

Just a thought here....first Roland rereleases the '07 VG Strat under the G-5 moniker, now they are offering new versions of the GK Twin Pedals.....is Roland going "Back To The Future"?

Elantric....when Roland first released the G-5, my first thought was that they needed to use up all the leftover hardware that didn't get used the first time around due to poor sales of the VG Strat....so you are probably onto something regarding having to use the leftover chassis for the also poor-selling WP Twin Pedals.

For all you VG-99/GR-55 owners....are all of the sounds that these two pedals make contained within the VG-99/GR-55?

-oddguitar

vanceg

Quote from: oddguitar on November 01, 2012, 10:12:08 PM

For all you VG-99/GR-55 owners....are all of the sounds that these two pedals make contained within the VG-99/GR-55?

-oddguitar

These pedals are clearly based around some of the same sounds and capabilities that the VG-99 and GR-55 have.  While the VG and GR (obviously) have a lot of features the pedals don't, the pedals do some things the more expensive older siblings don't.  The GR-S seems to have a true polyphonic chorus on it: Each string has a separate chorus applied to it.  That's something the VG-99 does not have. The VG-99 does seem to have pretty much all of the features of the GR-D. 

Actually I think the GR-S looks kind of interesting. I would recommend it just for the fact that it seems to have the VG-99's polyphonic freeze feature on it, and that's pretty useful effect.

vanceg

Quote from: Brent Flash on November 01, 2012, 03:08:21 PM
I just can't imagine why they would not put a GK through on these things. ???

Absolutely!  What are they thinking?  Well, I guess they figure that nobody would use more than two GK devices together.

Equally obvious is the idea of sending 6 independent processed signals out of the Distortion pedal to be processed independently in the Space pedal....easily accomplished if this theoretical second 13 pin connector was really a 13pin thru/out port. Maybe they put a switch there to define it's use....

Roland baffles me.  I just keep thinking:  "That is SO CLOSE to being REALLY great."

Elantric

#10
Quote
Equally obvious is the idea of sending 6 independent processed signals out of the Distortion pedal to be processed independently in the Space pedal....easily accomplished if this theoretical second 13 pin connector was really a 13pin thru/out port. Maybe they put a switch there to define it's use....

FWIW - The SpiceTone 6Appeal hex fuzz is a better tool than GR-D
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12104.msg88081#msg88081



QuoteRoland baffles me.  I just keep thinking:  "That is SO CLOSE to being REALLY great."

Agreed -  Although these days it no longer baffles me.  Its By Design!

Machh_2

would be an excellent trio WP-20G, GR-S and GR-D, together would make a kick-ass sound!

Machh_2

Quote from: Brent Flash on November 01, 2012, 03:08:21 PM
I just can't imagine why they would not put a GK through on these things. ???

...GK through and 1 feet GK cable to serial conections...

[]´s

shawnb


I read both writeups above, and honestly cannot tell - are these COSM-based?   Is the GR-S PCM-based?  Or are they basically 6-channel FX?   

If 6-channel FX, it's possible these are deeper than the VG-99 poly FX, & have some value-add over the GR55 & VG99.   If these are 'deeper' poly FX, they might really be something new...

I'm on a bit of a quest...   I'm one of those folks who actually purchased the Gibson Darkfire.  With the software bundle for the DF, there was a series of Ableton/GuitarRig presets called 'Wave guitar' orange/brown, etc. that were excellent.  The voices were built up basically applying GuitarRig distortion & Ableton EQ unique to each string.    The result was a sharp, lush, not-overly-synthy distortion; kinda like skysaw but not as raw.  A nice compromise:  clearly 'guitar synth' but warm.     

I don't like the dependency on Ableton/GuitarRig (how much stuff should I carry around - do I have to add a PC to all that???);  It sure seems the VG99 should get close.  Despite trying, I have not gotten the polyFX distortion to approximate the 'wave guitar' presets.  It's a nice effect, but far too subtle, I can't get the PolyFX distortion to add significant bite. 

I wonder of the GR-D might do the trick? 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp


aliensporebomb

#15
Regarding "can your existing devices make these sounds" - The distortion - yes, pretty much all of them.

The "space"?  OMG.  With the GR-S Type 4 pad mode - someone's been watching my videos and turned the concept into a pedal!  :)  Should I ask for royalties?  Should Bill???

Seriously, that could pass for some of the stuff I've done timbrally.

And the Crystal mode almost sounded like steel pans the way he was playing it which I've heard Bill Ruppert do on the VG-99.

But there are some other things that I don't think the 99 has:
the lush chorus although I believe I could get pretty close. - they said three choruses?  Well use choruses on A-B plus modulation (slow) and you could get it especially with delay.



My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

drjoness2001

Wow...it's kind of like they took some of the features included in the VG-99, but left out of the GR-55, and put them in pedals: freeze function, Poly FX (slow gear, poly distortion, etc.).

They seem to be assuming that someone who likes these sounds is a different kind of buyer than a VG-99 user. I wonder if that is the case, or if this will be a re-tread of the smaller 2001 VG pedals that came and went.


Elantric

Looks to me like this was the path:

(Top Roland Management) "The GR-55 sales are strong, but due to the weakening USA Dollar to Yen in 2012 (i.e. "inflation"), We need to create an even lower cost entry level 13 pin GK COSM Modelling product line. Team - Go raid the existing stock parts bin and design something for Winter NAMM 2013."


(Roland Engineering) "We can use that new $16 low cost pSOC (System On Chip) with DSP, 6 in  - 2 Out 24bit CODEC, and Embedded MCU, in one IC,  and port the Hex Distortion and Poly Chorus portions of the code from the old generation VG-88 - and have a $68 BOM (Bill of Materials) - and design new GR-S, GR-D PC Boards that fit inside the 10 year old WP-20G Wave Pedal chassis  - we still are sitting on 2,000 inventory of those old prepunched WP-20G chassis in the back of the stock room - and sell these new GR-S, GR-P pedals for $299 - and solve many problems.
     


(Top Roland Management) "Make it happen asap!"

Bill Ruppert

Come on Todd!
There is nothing new there.
Its all in your 99,this is stripped down.


aliensporebomb

#20
Quote from: Bill Ruppert on November 02, 2012, 09:26:39 AM
WHY????????????????

They want to drive us insane? 

I have an idea though: they might have come up with these (in their minds) that if someone buys these and they like them they might want to drop coin on a 99 or a 55 down the road once they get these.

But, in my mind - if I spent almost as much on a 55 as on one of these I would ultimately think it's kind of limited and might NOT go for additional gear if I spent my money on these so yeah, this doesn't really do anything that new.

Re: Bizzy Buzz Buzz:  LOL!  :)
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

QuoteLooks to me like this was the path:

(Top Roland Management) "The GR-55 sales are strong, but due to the weakening USA Dollar to Yen in 2012 (i.e. "inflation"), We need to create an even lower cost entry level 13 pin GK COSM Modelling product line. Team - Go raid the existing stock parts bin and design something for Winter NAMM 2013."


(Roland Engineering) "We can use that new $16 low cost pSOC (System On Chip) with DSP, 6 in  - 2 Out 24bit CODEC, and Embedded MCU, in one IC,  and port the Hex Distortion and Poly Chorus portions of the code from the old generation VG-88 - and have a $68 BOM (Bill of Materials) - and design new GR-S, GR-D PC Boards that fit inside the 10 year old WP-20G Wave Pedal chassis  - we still are sitting on 2,000 inventory of those old prepunched WP-20G chassis in the back of the stock room - and sell these new GR-S, GR-P pedals for $299 - and solve many problems.
     


(Top Roland Management) "Make it happen asap!"

Exactly.  But now they need a less expensive Gk pickup for these things to make the price of entry even lower.
Low profile GK4 anyone?  Somehow I doubt it. 

People might spring for a $300 pedal but adding a $200+ pickup that looks rather ugly might give some people pause.

And if they did use a new 24-bit system on a chip what are the audio specs of this versus the VG99/GR55 systems?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Orren Merton

Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 02, 2012, 02:06:52 PM
I have an idea though: they might have come up with these (in their minds) that if someone buys these and they like them they might want to drop coin on a 99 or a 55 down the road once they get these.

I have nothing but educated guesses. And my educated guess is along the same lines as yours and Elantric's.

Roland has had VG technology for a long time. They've had GK technology for a long time. They've had GR technology for a long time. While some units have done better than others, or done okay for a while, it's never really caught fire in a major way. Roland, however, has watched Line 6 blow up with their modeling line, and you can be sure that smart people are wondering how they can tap into that market.

We here dream of the "everything box," the "premium" product that will include all the routing and features that as longtime 13-pin/GK users, we know we want (and how to use). Roland could make that box, but they know they'd only sell it to us (and those like us). The fact is, only pros and people already "in the know" buy that stuff. Again look at Line 6; they used to sell inexpensive Variax guitars, but now they're only selling premium variaxes, since they found that the kids weren't so interested in them. And Roland really, really wants to sell to the "Line 6 kids" because there are orders of magnitude more of them than of us.

(BTW, let me be absolutely clear I am in no way disparaging Line 6 or their great gear! I used the phrase Line 6 kids not as a pejorative, but literally: young users who are dipping their feet into playing guitar for the first time, and they're picking up the "kidney bean" POD and progressing to other gear. They rule the hobby end of the market)

So while I think that one day, Roland might decide to come out with an everything box, I think they're far more focused on creating as many low cost GK products with minimal barriers to entry as they can. In that context, it doesn't matter if all this stuff exists in the VG-99 or whatever; it doesn't exist in a cheap package, which is the point.

Orren

Orren Merton

#23
Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 02, 2012, 02:18:07 PM
But now they need a less expensive Gk pickup for these things to make the price of entry even lower.
Low profile GK4 anyone?  Somehow I doubt it.

I don't even think it's the pickup price so much as the fact that most guitarists don't want to fiddle around with installing any sort of additional pickup. I think what Roland really needs is a complete line of low priced GK guitars. Not just Strats. There need to be single cuts, shredder guitars, etc. They need to compete with all the other sub-$500 guitars on the market. Only when young guitarists can buy a "turnkey" solution (that isn't a $1k strat) will it be compelling to newbies.

And as Line 6 found, even that isn't a guarantee the mass market will ever care about hi-tech guitar...

Orren

Elantric

QuoteAnd if they did use a new 24-bit system on a chip what are the audio specs of this versus the VG99/GR55 systems?

same - Roland has been using 24 bit A/D and 24 bit D/A since the release of the VG-99. Same for the GR-55.

I know in many circles  - there exist folks who still think these parts are precious and golden and the heart of their $2,000 Audiophile DAC with 2 inch thick machined aluminum front panel and volume knob  - but modern AKM 24 bit 1118db SNR CODEC ICS are now $6.00 / each.