Virtual Katana Air device for legacy Katanas

Started by CodeSmart, January 16, 2018, 03:07:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

CodeSmart

Unless Boss releases an external Bluetooth device you can plug into your old Katana USB and use the new phone version of BTS to wirelessly tweak your amp, it feels tempting to develop such a unit, considering the thousands of Katana's out there.

The unit should pretend to be a Katana Air amp and carry out the required BLE communication and USB communication between the phone and the old Katana.

I assume here they communicate "well known" BTS Katana SysEx MIDI messages between iOS/Android BTS and the amp, but do it over Bluetooth instead of a cable.

Does anyone here has experience in sniffing and capturing BLE communication between two devices in the room?  What are the best (low cost) sniffers available?

Thoughts of the idea?
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Elantric

#1
Id just use an off the shelf Raspberry Pi 3 ($40) and custom software you develop

https://www.hackster.io/raspberry-pi/products/raspberry-pi-3-model-b
( but monetising that effort might prove daunting

I imagine there will be a few folks who insist on this bluetooth >USB dongle being 100% compatible with the soon to be released Boss Katana Air apps for IOS/Android as well.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=22462.msg162879#msg162879

vtgearhead

Quote from: Elantric on January 16, 2018, 03:17:34 PM
I imagine there will be a few folks who insist on this bluetooth >USB dongle being 100% compatible with the soon to be released Boss Katana Air apps for IOS/Android as well.

Say what?  Did I oversleep and miss something?

CodeSmart

Quote from: Elantric on January 16, 2018, 03:17:34 PM

I imagine there will be a few folks who insist on this bluetooth >USB dongle being 100% compatible with the soon to be released Boss Katana Air apps for IOS/Android as well.

Elantric, that was the point with the whole thing. I don't understand your phrase "as well".
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

DutchGuitarDude

Quote from: CodeSmart on January 16, 2018, 03:07:12 PM
Unless Boss releases an external Bluetooth device you can plug into your old Katana USB and use the new phone version of BTS to wirelessly tweak your amp, it feels tempting to develop such a unit, considering the thousands of Katana's out there.

The unit should pretend to be a Katana Air amp and carry out the required BLE communication and USB communication between the phone and the old Katana.

I assume here they communicate "well known" BTS Katana SysEx MIDI messages between iOS/Android BTS and the amp, but do it over Bluetooth instead of a cable.

Does anyone here has experience in sniffing and capturing BLE communication between two devices in the room?  What are the best (low cost) sniffers available?

Thoughts of the idea?
New phone version of bts? That's something else than floorboard?

Elantric

#5
Quote from: DutchGuitarDude on January 18, 2018, 05:00:19 PM
New phone version of bts? That's something else than floorboard?

Correct - and they debut next month

read the Katana AIR  press release
https://www.boss.info/us/products/katana-air/
QuoteEdit and organize tones wirelessly with the (new) BOSS Tone Studio app for iOS and Android mobile devices

We await to see if this is Bluetooth or Wifi connection

Wireleess control of AV gear using wireless connections Smartphones  is taking off

just go to iTunes App store or Google Play Store and search on the big names ( Berhinger, Sony, Yamaha, Denon, Canon, Nikon ) all have Wireless GUI control apps 

Elantric

#6
Quote from: CodeSmart on January 16, 2018, 08:14:58 PM
Elantric, that was the point with the whole thing. I don't understand your phrase "as well".

I figured you could create a new ""USB to MIDI BLE Wireless module" that supported all existing Katana's ( except the MINI) using  a predefined MIDI CC#  effects control list which is a subset of the MIDX-20 with Katana Bridge Firmware
https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/bluetooth-le-midi

It would be curious if the CME WIDI Wireless MIDI BLE dongle could be used with the existing MIDX-20
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18416.msg155466#msg155466

Many of the Latest Windows Laptops, as well as Macbooks and iPads since 2012 support MIDI BLE ( Bluetooth Low Energy) Wireless MIDI 
https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/bluetooth-le-midi
http://www.korg.com/us/support/download/driver/1/305/2886/
https://www.midi.org/articles/midi-enhancements-in-windows-10


There are efforts to bring MIDI BLE to Raspberry Pi
https://github.com/oxesoft/rpi-midi-ble

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Low_Energy

Hackster.io - DIY MIDI COntrollers, Bluetooth LE projects
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20116.msg145008#msg145008


https://punchthrough.com/bean

https://www.hackster.io/search?i=projects&q=midi%20ble

vtgearhead

It would seem silly for Roland to release IOS/Android versions of BTS and not make them compatible with first-generation Katana amps via USB.  But, they've been silly plenty of times in the past so who knows.

DutchGuitarDude

Quote from: snhirsch on January 19, 2018, 05:04:39 AM
It would seem silly for Roland to release IOS/Android versions of BTS and not make them compatible with first-generation Katana amps via USB.  But, they've been silly plenty of times in the past so who knows.
That's my thought too. It'd be stupid if they didn't make an app that supports the older Katana's too....

admin

#9
QuoteIt would seem silly for Roland to release IOS/Android versions of BTS and not make them compatible with first-generation Katana amps via USB.  But, they've been silly plenty of times in the past so who knows.
But basic lack of USB Class Compliance on older Katana Amps WILL prevent a USB Connection to iphone/ ipad   = no ability to connect older Katana Amps to the upcoming Boss Tone Studio for IOS - and there are NO wireless receiver modules inside older Katana amps.

We will know more about Roland / Boss plans next week at NAMM.   

But its a bit like asking if the next time I'm near to running out of gas in my gasoline powered minivan, why cant I head over to my local Target store parking lot and use their  Electric Vehicle Charging Station to "fill up the tank". Lack of compatible resources is the issue.

Smash

Maybe the Katana Artist will have BTS phone app connectivity?

gumtown

#11
Maybe attach one of these to a MIDX-20
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HiFing-5-pin-In-Out-MIDI-Bluetooth-4-0-Wireless-Music-Keyboard-Adapter-V4-0-1x/372153772764?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D47301%26meid%3D67f9220192f446a09f2cd2421380dc67%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D362160614129&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851



US$23.22

Product Manual:
Wireless Bluetooth MIDI Adapter is specially designed for music lovers. With Bluetooth LE transmitting MIDI, just connect digital piano and synthesizer and electronic drum kits to for Mac and for iPhone so that you can edit music production and play the hottest music games. 

Features:
* With Wireless Bluetooth MIDI Adapter, it brings convenience for instruments with traditional 5-pin DIN MIDI in and out ports.
* Get rid of MIDI and USB, Wireless Bluetooth MIDI Adapter makes it easy to use plenty of music applications wirelessly. No need to reconnect every      time.
* Play hot music games on digital piano and synthesizer just connected with your for iPhone and for iPad with Bluetooth.
* Music applications offer plenty ways to enhance musical performance.
* Wireless Bluetooth MIDI Adapter supports iOS devices with iOS 9.2 and for Mac 10.10(Yosemite) or higher version. And working distance is up to       10m(30ft).

Specification:
Bluetooth Version: V4.0
Cable Length: Approx. 10cm / 3.94in
Item Weight: Approx. 31g / 1.05oz
Package Size: Approx. 15.3 * 10 * 2.2cm / 6.02 * 3.94 * 0.87in
Package Weight: Approx. 52g / 1.80oz
       
Package List: V2965
1 * Wireless Bluetooth MIDI Adapter
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

GuitarBuilder

Whatever you come up with, CodeSmart, I'm in!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

vtgearhead

Quote from: admsustainiac on January 19, 2018, 05:46:18 AM
But basic lack of USB Class Compliance on older Katana Amps WILL prevent a USB Connection to iphone/ ipad   = no ability to connect older Katana Amps to the upcoming Boss Tone Studio for IOS

That's true if one relies on intrinsic operating system services, but nothing prevents Roland from writing their own USB device driver for IOS / Android as they have for the Windows and Mac environments.

CodeSmart

Quote from: snhirsch on January 20, 2018, 11:21:40 AM
...nothing prevents Roland from writing their own USB device driver for IOS...
Hm....I think 'nothing' is spelled "Apple".
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

admin

#15
Quotenothing prevents Roland from writing their own USB device driver for IOS /

Apple will never allow third party USB drivers in IOS

and why I've been yelling for USB Class Compliance on my new gear. 

it's a big deal


For any  USB  audio /MIDI interface (Katana) to communicate with an iPad/ iPhone or other iOS device (Apple watch, apple TV) it MUST be USB Class Compliant.

Why does a startup "Melo Audio" in China  understand this better than Roland  ?

http://www.meloaudio.com/tone-shifter-mega/

Cant understand it myself

vtgearhead

Maybe I'm missing something here.  I understand class compliance is necessary in order to show up as a MIDI device in IOS. But, are you saying that the Katana amp is flat out inaccessible in IOS - even as, e.g. an HID or generic device?

admin

#17
Quote from: snhirsch on January 20, 2018, 12:25:44 PM
Maybe I'm missing something here.  I understand class compliance is necessary in order to show up as a MIDI device in IOS. But, are you saying that the Katana amp is flat out inaccessible in IOS - even as, e.g. an HID or generic device?


correct

vtgearhead

Quote from: admsustainiac on January 20, 2018, 01:16:12 PM

correct

Obviously I've never done any development for tablets.  Very surprising to me how far Apple has gone to ensure they control all possible uses of the device. 

vtgearhead

What is this discussion from StackOverflow referring to, then?

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28124419/how-does-this-ios-app-communicate-over-the-usb-port

Excerpt:


The information, code and tools to accomplish generic USB port communication is available to those who join the Apple MFi program. You have to do the paperwork and get licensed by Apple.

http://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/

The libraries necessary are included in the app and then the usual streaming libraries and code do the rest.

admin

#20
Quote from: snhirsch on January 20, 2018, 02:35:14 PM
Obviously I've never done any development for tablets.  Very surprising to me how far Apple has gone to ensure they control all possible uses of the device.

What is this discussion from StackOverflow referring to, then?

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28124419/how-does-this-ios-app-communicate-over-the-usb-port

Excerpt:


The information, code and tools to accomplish generic USB port communication is available to those who join the Apple MFi program. You have to do the paperwork and get licensed by Apple.

http://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/

The libraries necessary are included in the app and then the usual streaming libraries and code do the rest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MFi_Program
https://mfi.apple.com/MFiWeb/getFAQ.action
https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-Apple-charge-for-licensing-in-its-Made-for-iPhone-program

http://www.ithingum.com/mfi-certification/


The mFI program IMHO is tax you pay apple for the rights to ship a product with a Lightning cable and a license to  use the required  "Apple mFI Authentification IC" in the product design, and places your product release schedule at the mercy of Apple mFI Review department to review 100% of your final product design and only if you comply and upon mFI Licence payment to Apple - then your product may achieve the right to silkscreen your product as "mFI = Made for iPhone" (mFI). Not all products pass  - many fail
https://press.griffintechnology.com/release/griffin-introduces-studioconnect-hd-an-all-in-one-multi-track-recording-interface-for-ios-and-mac-os-x/



They have changed the mFI authentification IC a few times - I had to respin a PCB this year to maintain mFI compliance because the latest mFI Auth IC had a new footprint 


https://www.scribd.com/document/325596037/MFi-Accessory-Interface-Specification-for-Apple-Devices-R2

But Ive spent 6 years documenting how to connect 'non-mFI" audio / MIDI gear to your ipad/iphone here:

IOS: Connecting USB Class Compliant MIDI / Audio (Battery Power)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9581.0


https://www.scribd.com/document/63864778/Midii-USB-Teorija

Explains my love / hate attitude for that Cupertino company.

gumtown

I'm sure that Roland/Boss could meet half way, as we all know most of their USB gear is NOT CLASS COMPLIANT,
requiring a different software driver installed for each different device.

If Roland/Boss could make their USB partly compliant/driverless by enabling generic audio/midi features with the driver installed.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

vtgearhead

Oh, ugh.  Forget I mentioned Mfi.  So, basically, IOS devices are a hermetically sealed ecosystem that require developers to sell their souls and first-born to Apple in order to achieve interoperation?

No wonder I feel like taking a shower after using my iPad.