Best Strings for VGuitar and MIDI Guitar

Started by rhyane, March 26, 2009, 04:52:30 AM

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tightlow

#125
Hello all:
I know this topic has been addressed on the vg-99 side, but I didn't find anything useful.
I am concentrating almost entirely on piano/ EP patches because they're most critical to my writing, plus we all know the place to go is the most fickle "CONCERT GRAND" for your technique. It's still going well, but while I ponder putting on acrylic or gel nails, to access all the layers of sound and have fine control, I keep asking my self: " WHY NOT GO TO SUPER LIGHT STRINGS?" I actually play super slinkys .009-.042 on my current Les Paul with the GK-3 ,(and I think I may have an 8, 12, 14 on the top 3), but on ALL my nine other axes, strats, PRS, Lesters, Danos, I actually use .008, .009, .012, .022, .030 and .040".
I can control these just fine, very low action , except on some strats, where they need the tension to get good volume.

I'm studying "Great Gig In The Sky" by Pink Floyd now, and thinking, (since I just filed my nails down again for my bass tone: I'm a bassist 1/2 of the time, and nails suck to me.) WHy not go to featherweight strings? Maybe then I can access all the sound layers & have volume control without hitting the strings hard?

Seriously, is anyone out there using .008s or a custom super light gauge, and can you say you get good sensitivity without too much misfires?


It's a given, if you're using super light strings, you have a very light touch and control is not an issue.

Thanks!

Elantric

#126
Each of us has a different playing technique.

Myself  - changing to  lighter gauge strings would be the opposite direction I need for good Guitar to PCM Synth or Guitar to MIDI tracking regardless of system used ( Roland, Axon, Tripleplay) - because a lighter gauge string tends to slap the frets and get pulled too sharp on the initial pick attack with my technique, creating far too many ghost notes for me

I always have better  Guitar to Synth tracking results with thicker strings, and even better with Flat wound D'Addario Chromes strings   


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5320.msg36668#msg36668
QuoteI have been using 0.010" - 0.046" Elixirs on my XTSA for a few years now.  It originally had a set of 0.011's when I bougtht it used.  Other than tweaking the truss rod when I changed down, I haven't had any neck issues. For a short time, I tried 0.009's but seemed to get too many "ghost notes" with the lighter strings.

tightlow

Unless I misunderstand the GK3, I wouldn't think the string composition would affect one's tone with nearly the same valence as it would with a magnetic pickup. Ergo, Cobalt by EB shouldn't do anyting to your COSM and especially synth tones in a direct fashion.
I did find Cobalts to be different than slinkys, for sure. I heard a very stron push in the mids, low mids to high mids, but mostly in the very center. They are also substantially stiffer than slinkys, even the unwound strings. They left a hell of a mess reacting with my skin (whether that's actually deposits of metal or a reaction with my skin), than steel or nickel alloy strings do. They felt almost powdery, like super-fine shavings of metal were all over them. They were not slick at all, but tacky. They were stout and loud, but I really missed the highs.
This was only on one guitar, though, a 1993 PRS EG (alder body maple neck rosewood board bolt-on). The PuPs are H-S-H, with the bridge PuP being much like a Duncan JB, and aged about 20 years, so just like a 20 year old JB, the bridge PuP has lost some sparkle, and it's roughly 16k Hz DC resistance already yields a mid- heavy sound, but when it was younger, it had shimmer. Maybe that's why the cobalt strings seemd SO mid- heavy; they may have been pushing the pickup's native sound, just louder.

Elantric

#128
Quote
Unless I misunderstand the GK3, I wouldn't think the string composition would affect one's tone with nearly the same valence as it would with a magnetic pickup. Ergo, Cobalt by EB shouldn't do anyting to your COSM and especially synth tones in a direct fashion.

With COSM Hex Processing (VG-8,VG-88, VG-99, GR-55, GP-10) ,  the String is the Oscillator source, and string type and hex PU type (6 channel Piezo, or 6 channel  Magnetic, or 6 channel Optical) play large roles, (along with Guitar type)  in your resulting COSM Modeling tone. 

You will be misguided if you believe the COSM Modeled Les Paul or COSM Modeled Strat tone on (VG-8,VG-88, VG-99, GR-55, GP-10) will each sound identical irregardless of what type 13 pin PU or what type Guitar the hex PU is mounted to. 

taupo_axeman

I played for many years using 008's as my style is all about bending notes.  I found the best way to "have your cake and eat it" regarding light bendy strings for expressiveness and heavier ones for sustain and better VG performance was to change my guitar fret wire to tram-lines.
I refretted all my guitars (Vintage Strat, Godin XTSA and even Maton acoustic) to the heaviest fret wire (Dunlop 6000) years ago and never looked back.  I now uses 009 or 010 instead of 008 with the same bending ease yet more sustain.
My luthier gave me a funny look when I asked for my brand new 2012 XTSA to be re-fretted.  But the last time I saw him, he had changed all of his guitars to Dunlop 6000 :)
https://www.gigbag.app/
Guitars: 1975 Strat, Godin XTSA, Maton Acoustic, Roland GC1
Amp:Tech 21 Trademark 60
P.A.: Mackie SRM 450's, 15 Mackie Active Subs
Floor: Boss GP-10, VG8 EX, VG-88
Studio: Logic Pro, Omnisphere, Korg Triton, Tria Event speakers
www.tasmanhoppers.com/music/

tightlow

Originally written bt Taupo_ Axeman:
I refretted all my guitars (Vintage Strat, Godin XTSA and even Maton acoustic) to the heaviest fret wire (Dunlop 6000) years ago and never looked back.  I now uses 009 or 010 instead of 008 with the same bending ease yet more sustain.

Yeah, Taupo, I keep wanting to address the tension/ sustain connundrum this way. I have one friend wh runs 10s on LPs and 10s or 9.5 on strats, a bona fide shred monster, and he almost always manages his setups to seem (at least on first examination) to be as easy as mine are, low, great sound, even though I use increasingly customized sets, and we're talkng LIGHT. Now, it's taken years for me to arrive here, and almost no one can believe what I'm playing, or the light touch it takes, but, YES, I'd very much like to have a few axes strung up with 10s and be real low.
I find I don't like the railroad ties so much...Pretty much the Gibson fret is best for me. Of all things (can't figure this out), PRS put these very large, tall frets on the 25th anniversary SC245 (I have a new old stock selected for Wildwood Guitars that's only 7.5 poinds, 10 top, 57/ 08 PuPs...as fine a guitar as I've ever touched. It took me a good year to get used to these giat rails. It's only a 24.5" scale, for god's sake...that's a lot of metal in those little positions, but I'm ok with it now.
Set up , IMO is a mystery best left for each player to eventually master for himself, b/c short of having a dedicated tech/ luthier on the road with you, you never get what you really want, consistently otherwise.
BTW, in my 40th year of playing I have yet to refret because I wore strings down. I wear frets so slowly it's almost immeasurable. Super light touch. But I swear, observing the shred-monster friend I just mentioned, he goes through frets in 2-3 years guaranteed. Go figure. I used rotosound swing bass on all my basses for 20 years, and never wore a single fret down. Today I use Thomastik Infeld Jazz rounds, which couldn't wear down a fret if you sawed across them.
I must pick one guitar and stick with the 10 gauge and set up over & over again to see if I can strike the magic balance with them. My Guitar synth guitar is the logical choice because as I depend on the GR55 mainly as a true piano/ EP substitute, there's not much bending. (RELATED): up until this point, light strings/ heavy strings, all settings , yadayada, t seems to me it's about 90% technique that rules the GR55. I thought I'd fiddle with "Great Gig In The SKY" by Floyd today, and four hours later, found I'd completed it. (Piano). It was al about intense focus on technique. For now i'm done with tweaking internal & PuP settings, they affect very little for me. Just down to string gauge and perhaps artificial nails.
Thaks for the idea.

jerrycali

I have been using Ernie Ball 9-42 for years - tried the Cobalt and didn't like them- I am now using the M steels- they last and last and sound great - they seem to have a feel of a 10-46 set but still with lots of snap and solid bottom - my guitar likes them too - tracking improved on GR 55 as well - JC

Brak(E)man

I use halfrounds D'Addario 0.009- 0.042 or 0.08 - 0.039 on my fretless necks due to better sustain and slide,
brighter that flatwounds, but low in volume , works fine with midi and / or any VG system, have not tried vith GR55
or GP10 but i see no reason that they shouldn't work great. I never change strings unless they brake and that's maybe every 5 - 7 years.
(On the fretted neck 0.011 Gibson)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

teejay

GHS Boomers .009-.042, double ball.
My KGB headless (internal GK kit) has super jumbo frets, and I get superb tracking with the GR55, and lots of people come up to me after gigs and complement my tone from the VG99. (Some then take that back when they realise its not my (unused) mags and amp making the sound  ???)
Works for me.........
Custom KGB headless, internal GK2a and sustainiac stealth plus. GR55 straight into PA.   Guitar out (COSM) feeding digitech VL4 vocal harmoniser.

mooncaine

Where you folks gettin' your superlight .008 string sets? I don't see 'em anymore.

PD FX

If you want to tune down your bassstrings vitually with COSM, you'll notice that the sound becomes untight with thin steel strings.
This is due to the string actually detuning temporarily when you pluck or stroke them, the effect is enlarged by the transposing algorhythm.
Then there are 2 solutions for this that I tested and worked fine:
-use thick strings, typically the basses of a .012 set. typical usage: fingerpicking and picking. 
-use classic strings with nylon core, they dont detune at all when you pluck/stroke them harder. You only can do this with piezo guitars, for those strings are not magnetic (enough ).  typical usage: fingerpicking and tapping.

There are special strings from thomastick that have flatwound chromesteel windings on nylon core, they work best. in this example I use 4 flatwound strings (E,A,d,g) and 2 nickel steel strings (b,e'). This way I can do bends on string 1 & 2, and the general sound is normal.
These are the strings: http://www.thomann.de/de/thomastik_cf128.htm

here's a demo using cosm and pcm with this string setup, showing that the basses perform very well.


Majiken

Well, that video just pushed my envelope way out  :P, well done, Guitarpoison  ;D!
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

PD FX

Quote from: Majiken on January 03, 2015, 06:24:40 AM
Well, that video just pushed my envelope way out  :P, well done, Guitarpoison  ;D!
thanks majiken!
my nickname is guitarpoLson however ")
Paul Driessen is my real name, I'm on yt and fb

Brak(E)man

Here's something for all nylon acoustic players that want to have vg or gp or gr etc access.

Don't know if this is something you've already discussed.
The strings works great with fretless as well.
And no need for a hex piezo

QuoteThomastic Infeld Classic S series,  KR116, weighting in KGs from 1st to 6th: 7.2 7.2 6.4 6.5 7.2 6.6  they all have steel cores so you can use a GK2/3 pickup, works great I've tried it on the Glissentar, the double courses of strings work fine (Roland says they won't!)
From Jeff Berg unfretted.com forum
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Fusion

#139
I recommend checking out Thomastik-Infeld strings, more expensive but just a level above common strings. My Power brights have brass plated plains to preserve the lifetime and brightness without a "coating". The winds are so smooth and tight around a hex core they feel like flat wounds, very little wear. Amazing strings, the output on my Power Brights-heavy bottom (11-50) is greater than most other standards I used to use like A'darrio coated which I liked a lot, my fav coated string.
The Thomastik(Tomas-tik)-Infeld are professional levels strings ranging from George Benson Jazz custom sets, to blues and and metal rock types. I find the GR-55 loves the Power Brights which also enable me to play a range of music styles. Which I play heavy fusion of rock, blues, and metal, sorry no country or real poppy stuff. From my more massive gain structures to cleans the Power Brights are a treat and for the first time I noticed a big difference in strings.
Tracking is great but watch the output level on a new set, and yes as strings get older the output drops off as well as the dynamics and high end.
For this reason I have used coated for consistent output from new to older.

You get more life time out of the Thomastik-Infeld from the brass plating which is sort of cool to have gold colored brass plain strings over the normal silver/nickel. Personally I find steels and some of the newer metals too bright and shrill while the Power Brights the best of all worlds in lifetime and tone but just a cut above in quality and manufacturing excellence. Each string is sealed in plastic air tight inside an envelope as well. Very nice. I never had heard of the them until this year. Expensive, but professional quality and they last as long as my coated ones which is quite some time. 

:-\[Sorry goofed on the gauge size, these are 10-50, not 11, I also play a half step down as I still use my std guitar rig as well as the 55. My tracking is very good, as long as the sensitivity level is not too high I find tracking is largely technique and feel. I also from my many years of playing guitar still tune to Eb a half step down w 10s through 50 that eases the tension for my hands and makes for the best combination for me. I would probably be using 9-46 if std tuning pitch tension. But Thomastik-Infeld that is the vendor for me. They have so many types of string and manufacturing innovations.]
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Elantric

Others also report good results using Thomastik-Infeld "Flat-Wound" strings,


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1319.msg6898#msg6898


Also D'Addario "Chromes" Flatwound strings provide fewer random ghost notes during Guitar to MIDI 

Fusion

Actually the wound strings on mine are so smooth to the touch and feel you would think they were flats or semi-flats but they are not. Might be why I see such improvement on them w the 55. Intonation issues on them are also better than typical strings I have used.
There are so many sets they make for different styles and types of playing. Pure flat Jazz sets for me are not very good for the higher gain stuff I also like to play. The Power Bright-Heavy Bottom make the best all around set for me.
I think those who try the the T-I sets are going to stay with them. I know I am not going back to what I have used.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Tony Raven

#142
Quote from: mooncaine on January 03, 2015, 12:17:30 AM
Where you folks gettin' your superlight .008 string sets? I don't see 'em anymore.
Only 15 choices here:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/.008-gauge-electric-guitar-strings

The vast majority of sets on the market are .009/.010. You oughta check out this complicated Internets thingie called a "search engine," though, that finds me at least one .007 set:
http://www.interstatemusic.com/927328-Dunlop-RWN0738-Reverend-Willy-Extra-Light-Electric-Guitar-Strings-007-038-RWN0738.aspx

And there's custom options out there that go as teensy as .0059.
http://garrygoodman.com/Plain%20Steel%20Strings.htm

My self-image is that I'm a ham-handed player, but then I look at my old Univox -- bought new in 1974, my ONLY guitar to 1996 -- & see there's only light/moderate fret wear. Nowadays, I mostly use .010 & .011 sets; being a slim guy with teensy hands, I've got no problem making crazy bends. I'm getting around to setting a guitar up with at least .013 (a really sweet guitar I got cheeeeep because of a very slightly back-bowed neck), & fitting a GK3 is an option.

While I try to avoid being superstitious about crap like strings, seems like half my guitars are strung with some version of D'Addario.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of stringing a guitar with six heavy G strings: easy to keep tuned, consistent across the frets, total lack of tone-modifying wraps. No cost except the hassle of putting in a new nut. (If it works out, I might even put on a blank pickplate! 8))

Darn, almost forgot to add: if you've got one clearly go-to guitar, get a FULL pro setup. Many times I've read something like "the shop put on a new set of -------- strings & made a few adjustments, & -------- are the BEST strings ever!!" without seemingly being conscious of the "adjustments" part.

Guitarists aren't necessarily nuts-&-bolts guys: I once talked someone out of a total refret by simply tweaking the trussrod, & the results spoke volumes. I trade a few used guitars here & there, & am forever baffled by the heavily played instruments I see that have a VERY high nut, or the saddles in a perfectly straight line, or a readily visible neck bow.

ron45

#143
Flat or round wound? Light or heavy. I plan to try a set of 10 flatwounds unless otherwise advised and I'll thank you in advance for your help.

I'm setting up and Eastman 910 to drive my GR1 and GR33 synths. Made a small cocobolo table that will attach under the ebony pick guard via hi tack double sided tape with Cork feet out at the free end of the table. I'll have to see how that tape does. Reading up on the wood, it's oil content sometimes interferes with bonding agents. Got some fingers crossed.

Guess there wasn't enough traffic on the GR! part of the forum. That area seems to be gone.

Ron
3 Eastman Archtops, Ibanez PM100, Custom built tweed Princeton 34 watt 12" spkr Roland HPD15  2 Avalon 737sp  8buss 16 track Tascam Mixer  Lexicon PCM91 reverb deity Digital Performer Mac pro, Kurzweil K2500, GR 1 GR 30 GK3 on Eastman 910  64 fender jazz bass bought new  AKG 712  CAD VS2 tube mic

ConstruKction

I never tried -- I'm actually wondering myself.

But theoretically, flatwounds should yield naturally more tension which could perhaps result in more efficient synth tracking. Probably not that much of a difference for regular scale guitars and standard tunings.

However, I'm wondering now if a 0.052 flatwound on a 24"-scale would produce better synth tracking results on my low C than my current 0.052 roundwound. Not like it's terrible, but the GR-300 emulated on the VG-99 doesn't exactly like anything that's below C# (while the GR-30 seems to be doing fine (unless you start to play faster)). Perhaps a flatwound would slightly improve that behavior.

Vade

#145
Some good info here...

Best Strings for VGuitar and MIDI Guitar?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1606.0
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Tony Raven

#146
Briefly: yes, tapewounds ought to be tonally superior to drive a hex pickup. Vastly reduced overtone series AND near-elimination of string noise & pick scratch. Initial pick contact will throw off less of the spike that messes with initial tracking lock-on so could well make play sound crisper.

However, I originally learned to play on tapes, so no big change; others might find the "snakey" wraps (particularly with the wound G) take some adaptation. And anyone who's running the pass-through guitar output to effects & amp might have to overhaul their rig to get a suitable sound.

As with "hot" pickups, we've been telling ourselves for decades that "brighter is better!!" without stopping to actually question that assumption. Pushing a GK (& perhaps piezo as well), the goal ought to be a fundamental as pure as possible, right? Brightness is complex, therefore counterproductive.

In my early youth, my dad was a fan of The Ventures, particularly Surfing. Eventually, I got a remastered CD of it. One point that jumped out at me was how all the instruments were clearly strung with flats. Of a sudden, I felt like covering the tunes with stainless roundwounds was just... wrong. :o Even when the band has the amps cranked to distortion, the tonal characteristics of the flats is distinctive, particularly the "lub-dub" bass notes.

Almost all flatwound (tapewound) guitar strings nowadays are stainless. Though smoother (so throwing off fewer overtones) & denser (emphasizing the fundamentals) than wirewounds, stainless is still moderately hard.

So, softer metal, then. ;) Thomastik & Pyramid make nickel tapes. These are likely MUCH more early-'60s than stainless.

Better yet (IMO), RotoSound has the RS200 "Top Tape" set (12-52) where the wraps are monel, a nickel/copper alloy. They are marketed as jazz strings. I know they're available, as two sets arrived last week. Not cheap at $12 each, but that's half the aforementioned nickels. Even in the wrapper, they FEEL chunkier.

I can't find tension data on the set, though. Installing them might require filing the nut AND tightening the trussrod.
________________

Quote from: Vade on March 05, 2016, 08:59:41 AM
Some good info here...

Best Strings for VGuitar and MIDI Guitar?
(pssst -- dude, that's this thread...)

;D

admin

I play lots of styles and use different guitar / different strings depending on the gig.
I'm not so anal about my string gauges, but same gauge strings on a Fender Strat (25.5" scale)  will tend to feel looser / less tension on a Gibson (24.75" scale), and even looser on a Fender Jaguar ( 24" scale)


There was an old general rule that if you desire similar tension, and use a set of .009" - .042" on your Fender Strat (25.5" scale) , then use .010" - .046" on your Gibson LP ( 24.75" scale) to have a similar tension.


In my surf band I play Fender Bullet .010- .052"

But I'm getting older ( arthritis) and trying a set of Pyramid .008-.040

the big deal is playing technique - and on Electric Guitar you can get big tone with light gauge strings with the right gear and technique -  let the pickups and Amp do the work, and avoid excess pressure / wasted motion with your hands and fingers



String tension calculators
http://geargods.net/tutorials/how-to-choose-string-gauges-for-your-guitar/

http://chordgen.rattree.co.uk/tensiontool.php

http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html
https://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_string.htm
http://stringtensionpro.com/SetBuilder?id=23

mooncaine

I bought a few packs of Rev Willy G.'s lights with an .007 on top. Also tried some 8s. Boy, it's a different instrument, whew, a lot of adapting (for me).

But my fave for VG is still D'Addario double-ball 10-46. I put the next-lighter set on my practice guitar, but when I get onstage, I get excited and forget not to squeeze too hard. The 10s are more forgiving of my ham-handed busker bashing.

chrish

I used to use .012 for the high E.

I have one electric guitar strung with a .009 high E set and it does take a little adaptation but not too much.

The fun part is to be able to bend whole chords with a lighter gauge set up.