Native Instruments RigKontrol 3

Started by mbenigni, May 13, 2013, 07:37:32 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jim Williams

That is scary, I just bought a Rig Kontrol 3 for $200.00 from eBay today. My email said I could expect delivery next week on Wednesday or Thursday. I can't wait, to think I almost went to GC and bought one for almost $400.00. I hope my experience with eBay is better.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Elantric

#26
The important thing to know is this:

* The Prior Owner of any "used"  NI Rig Kontrol Hardware must contact Native Instruments first before selling the unit, and deactivate / remove this specific serial number unit from the NI Service Center. If the prior owner does not perform this important step, you may end up not being able to fully use the "pre-owned" NI Rig Kontrol Hardware, nor apply any future firmware patches or have difficulty obtaining drivers or support from NI.   


* NI Customer Service in USA is really sub par and no help in these matters. Last time I tried to contact them via telephone ( during my FTP Beta testing in March 2013) using their Native Instruments Los Angeles support line telephone number , it took nearly an hour on hold, then the NI Support person who answered acted like I was interrupting his joint rolling session, and told me all the answers are already on the Ni web site. They are no help to assist you getting a "used" unregistered  RK3 working. and of course its impossible to register a used RK3 unless the prior owner "de-registered" it with N.I.  first.


* The current retail price of the NI Rig Kontrol hardware alone (no software) is $249 - you only see this price AFTER you log into Native Instruments with your existing NI Account. 

mbenigni

Quoteits only been 3 business days

Sounds like he had a second Memorial Day weekend for good measure.   ::)

I agree that NI customer service leaves a lot to be desired.  They drove me crazy with empty promises of MIDI support for the RK2 way back when, which is why it took me 5 years to pony up for an RK3.

I just hope you like it when it finally arrives.  My feelings about the RK3 are mixed, but there's no other single product that will quite replace it.

Elantric

#28
Just an update on my used RK3 purchase, to act as a reminder for folks buying on Ebay.

Paypal resolution center gave the seller another week to ship the unit.

Seller finally supplied a Fedex Number to me on Monday June 10, 2013, but after 2 days Fedex still reports the latest news is "Shipment Information sent to Fedex" = which translates into only a shipping label was created , but the box was never dropped off.

So the whole transaction seems to be a fraud IMHO.

Seems the only trustworthy sellers on ebay are Chinese, or the normal retail sellers that also have an ebay site  - selling gear for the same as full retail!

For example, If I  buy a pair of GFS Rectotron Liverpool pickups for $46 with free shipping from China on a Thursday, I typically get my package less than 5 days later  - its a scary bizarre world today. Use caution on Ebay.

Jim Williams

Yes I am Still waiting for mine as well. I thought it might arrive today but I guess not. I got in touch with the seller and he said he shipped it almost a week ago. I am still waiting.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

mbenigni

Sorry you guys are having such a hard time.  eBay is just a mess nowadays.   >:(

Jim Williams

I checked the item tracking and it was last checked in Texas... Still along way away from Mass.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Elantric

#32
QuoteI checked the item tracking and it was last checked in Texas... Still along way away from Mass.

Hopefully when it arrives and you open the box, its not a filled with a bag of sand

My Ebay Seller prefers no contact, and all i have is a Fedex message that a label was printed but the package is not in their possession yet - 12 days after I won the Ebay auction.


utensil

Quote from: Elantric on June 12, 2013, 02:56:58 PM
Hopefully when it arrives and you open the box, its not a filled with a bag of sand

My Ebay Seller prefers no contact, and all i have is a Fedex message that a label was printed but the package is not in their possession yet - 12 days after I won the Ebay auction.

I think without paypal buyer protections ebay would be complete chaos. I have had 2 things never show up (I can't be sure if it was ever sent) but paypal refunded me completely. It took really long though since I think you have to wait 45 days after the auction to file a claim.

Jim Williams

It finally got here today and it will be a bit of a learning curve before I put it to practical use.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Jim Williams

OK I figured how to set the program changes and assigns with the control editor. It works like a charm with Kore 2 as a host. Now I just have to make a performance set, right now I have been playing around with settings learning how to make software and hardware work together. Later I plan on doing a video to demo the potential and some setup tips.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Elantric

The Ebay seller of my N.I. Rig Kontrol 3 dragged / stalled shipping the unit until very late Monday 6/17/2013, and missed the Fedex truck (2days with Fedex)   Its been 20 days since I "won" the Ebay auction, and the seller lives under 200 miles away.

My Rig Kontrol 3 finally arrived this afternoon, and I just gave it a full checkout - all seems to work OK. But I'm probably going to use my HD-500  / Variax instead for an upcoming gig with The Kristen Black Band

https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/kristen-black/id167809728



mbenigni

Again with the uncanny timing... I just happened to find my CCK last night, too.  So now we're both in a position to confirm/deny the RK3 class-compliant claims, at least where iOS is concerned.  (Were you interested in Linux compatibility as well, or just iOS?)  I'm guessing we'll find that iOS apps recognize audio but not MIDI.

By the way, what do you think of the switches?  Do you agree that they're too loud, or do you typically work in contexts where this won't be a problem?  Mine feels like it's going to rattle itself apart whenever step on one...

Elantric

#38
Of course if there is any hope of RK3 working with ipad+CCK - you must also insert a Powered USB Hub between CCK and RK3.

I think the switches are very loud too, but I think they can  be modified  - these are actually metal plungers that manipulate internal PCB mounted mini switches.


mbenigni

QuoteI think the switches are very loud too, but I think they can  be modified  - these are actually metal plungers that manipulate internal PCB mounted mini switches.

That would be a game changer for me.  I'm working in a very "live" room with hardwood floors, and these switches are so distracting I practically cringe before stepping on one.  Inspiration killer.

I'll disassemble again tonight and see if there's an obvious way to remove the plungers and "reskin" the mini-switches.  Are you aware of a commonly available, standardized, silent part that might replace these plungers?

Elantric

QuoteAre you aware of a commonly available, standardized, silent part that might replace these plungers?

I'm working from an assumption - never had any Ni Rig Kontrol  taken apart yet to look at the actual switches. They seem similar to the Fender Mustang Floor switches

But here's another question on Rig Kontol 3 - Does this support the old Rig Kontrol 2 function of embedding Control automation messages in the Audio?
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb06/articles/niguitarrig2.htm

QuoteLike the original, Rig Kontrol 2 transmits its control messages to the computer not as MIDI, but embedded inaudibly in the audio signal from your guitar

mbenigni

Quote from: Elantric on June 20, 2013, 10:22:04 AM
But here's another question on Rig Kontol 3 - Does this support the old Rig Kontrol 2 function of embedding Control automation messages in the Audio?
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb06/articles/niguitarrig2.htm

Hmm... I wouldn't have thought that was true of the RK3 or the RK2.  I just assumed that when they went to a USB connection they went with a proprietary control scheme that was not part of the audio signal.  Now I suppose I'm not sure either way.  But it seems strange that they would stick with what was obviously a workaround for the fact that some RK1 users would not have MIDI interfaces.  The RK2 and 3 do have MIDI interfaces (even if they're only half-implemented) so I don't see where control signals embedded in audio would represent any real cost savings for NI (unless it's the only way they could get such high resolution control of expression pedal input.)

Either way, Guitar Rig itself doesn't have any automation features, and any VST host will require that you first convert to MIDI (with Controller Editor) before recording automation, so I think it's a moot point.


Jim Williams

I have been using the control editor and found you can do most anything with it. you can set up different modes for different pedals and save the different setups that you can recall later. I have not figured out how to have the prv and next switches to be bank up and down while switches 1-4 be patch changes. it is not too bad just scrolling through patches while having more controls per patch.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

mbenigni

QuoteI'm working from an assumption - never had any Ni Rig Kontrol  taken apart yet to look at the actual switches.

Took mine apart on Friday and unfortunately the entire switch is one assembly, integrated with the toggle LED.  No way to remove the plunger that I could see, although it's possible I missed something.  I might hit a hardware store and look for rubber replacements for the washers, just to dampen the resonance a little bit.

QuoteI have been using the control editor and found you can do most anything with it.

Except assign a different CC to the Exp. pedal on state vs. the Exp. pedal off state.

Phatstrat

#44
I use the GR55 and GK3 in live performances in a band but want to use a midi foot controller with additional foot switches and expression pedal to make patch selection and access easier.  I came across my brand new Native  Instrument Rig Kontrol 3 (NI-RK-3) midi/audio foot controller and it has the perfect footprint  to compliment the GR55 during live performances on a small stage or venues.  The problem is that the Instrument Rig Kontrol 3 display does not light up or does not see the GR55 when disconnected from the computer USB port.  Only a midi cable from the NI-RK-3 midi-out to the GR55 midi-in was used.    The NI-RK-3 editor (computer) was used to setup the NI-RK-3 midi mode, GR55 CC: numbers and channel-1.  Please explain how I can use the Instrument Rig Kontrol 3 (NI-RK-3) with the GR55 without a computer connected to the (NI-RK-3) or if it is possible to use the Instrument Rig Kontrol 3 (NI-RK-3) foot controller with GR-55 if not connected to a computer USB port.   Is there a 3rd party USB power supply out there to power up the (NI-RK-3)?   Please help.

Elantric

#45
FWIW - We try to keep the Rig Kontrol 3 discussions here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8574.0

Based upon your Subject text - I had hoped you were going to share a working stand alone MIDI Control solution.

A few of us have Rig Kontrol 3 - but none of us have been able to made it work "stand alone".

Has anyone else been able to get NI Rig Kontrol 3 footpedal working as a stand alone MIDI Controller?


mbenigni

I'm not 100% sure, but close to it.  I don't think the RK3 will send MIDI to the MIDI Out port without a PC running their translation software (whose name escapes me at the moment.)  I'd recommend sending an email to NI tech support to ask whether this is possible.

Elantric


Below information might help others who use the NI Rig Kontrol 3 and Mainstage
http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=88572

Quoteguitardan50 wrote:How do i program Rig Kontrol 3 to work with Mainstage 2.2?




Hi

First download and install the Rig K driver and the Controller Editor application from NI. Run the Editor app, and setup the Rig K switch/pedal MIDI CC numbers and switch behaviour as you want. See the included Controller Editor docs for more info.

Then Assign these switches as normal within your MainStage concert.

CCT

Elantric

http://geareview.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/rig-kontrol-3-as-an-easy-to-use-general-midi-controller-for-anything/

Rig Kontrol 3 as an easy-to-use general MIDI controller for anything
In the process of preparing a review for Native Instruments Guitar Rig 4: Kontrol Edition, I put the controller through the paces pretty heavily. It's had a fair bit of improvement via software since its launch as the original Rig Kontrol 3. Now, instead of just controlling Guitar Rig software, it interfaces with any DAW or standalone app that can accept MIDI thanks to Native's Controller Editor program. Below I've included a brief walkthrough of how to get it to work with Amplitube 3 via REAPER's Automation. The images are larger than the blog will natively display, but making them smaller obscures the text substantially! So, please click on the image and use your browser's "view image" function to see the image without any cropping or oddness.

The first thing you need to do is to open up the Controller Editor so that Rig Kontrol 3 switches into "con" mode on its red LED display. That just makes it capable of sending MIDI control data via USB along with audio. From there, here's what you need to do to have it actually control a value in Amplitube 3 in REAPER.

Step 1:
In Reaper, you enable it as an input device, like so:



Step 2:
In Amplitube 3, you need to assign the thing you want to control to a DAW Automation slot. Click on the "Auto" button down at the bottom there. From there, browse to the thing you want to be controlled as Parameter 1 (Amplitube 3 allows a DAW limited parameters to control, so choose what you need control over pretty carefully if you've got a complex signal chain). In this case, though I loaded an Overscream, I set it to control the bypass on a Distortion. Which is just a goof on my part because I'm tired. What it does is makes it so that a Distortion loaded in Stomp module section 1 will be assigned to AT3?s DAW Parameter 1. Make sure to hit "Ok" afterward; it's sort of like "apply," and if you don't hit it, it won't save the changes you've made.



Step 3:
From there, it's just a matter of going into REAPER's automation menu for the track (the button labeled "env" by default, right after "io"). From there, set the mode to at least "Touch" or greater so that it will have an effect on the parameter (otherwise it won't). A second ago we set Parameter 1 to control the Bypass on a Distortion in Stomp Module 1. So, make sure to Arm parameter 1 so that it can receive control input. Then, click the "Learn" button, and hit the switch you want to control the bypass. Now, when you have the "Distortion" pedal in the first Stomp Box section of AT3, that button will control the bypass.



The principle is the same for anything. The easiest things to assign are on/off switches, but you can set a switch to do any number of things, including switch between two different parameter values if, for example, you wanted to have a chorus with two modulation speeds or depths (or both) in a song with the ability to switch between them, or if you wanted to be able to switch between your preamp gain set lower or higher.

Again, it works with any MIDI capable software, sending the MIDI control data over USB alongside audio if you prefer to use it as your audio interface. StealthPedal didn't used to have any competition in this regard, but now it does, and the Rig Kontrol 3 is a very respectable competitor indeed, with a multitude of included switches and the expression pedal. For Windows users, it's also nice that its drivers allow for it to be used as a general audio device – for a budget studio, having one audio device that can handle all of your needs might tip the balance in its favor. Of course Mac users with Core Audio see no difference either way since they have audio output built-in without the nightmare of drivers we Windows folks have to put up with

Elantric

#49