GK-Kit Internal wiring with NO mag pickups

Started by Gassghost, February 11, 2013, 11:58:33 AM

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Gassghost

Hi All:

I'm installing a GK-Kit into a Strat that will have no magnetic pickups. I won't need the Guitar/ Mix/GK switch but I'm assuming I'll need to solder 2 of the wires together for to complete the circuit so the hex pickups sends a signal. Any clues as to which wires need to be connected? The manual is no help.

Also on another note, since I won't be using or installing the switch, do I solder the ground lead from the S1/S2 toggle to the black "shield" wire or the white wire or both?

Your help is always appreciated.

Thank you,
Mike
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric


Gassghost

Thanks Elantric but I have the manual. I just need to know if I need to solder any wires together on the 8 pin connector to have the GK side of the (Not Installed) Mix switch to be GK always on. I've installed 3 of these already just none with no magnetic pickups in the guitar. My other question is for the DPDT switch I'm using in place of the 2 supplied button switches, do I need to solder the center lug to just the (black) shield wire (as shown in the instructions)or the (white) wire or BOTH on the 8 pin connector. Remember I'm not installing the mix switch.

Thank in advance,
Gass
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric

#3
I suggest

1)  Mock things up on a bench before drilling any holes, to establish GK-3 functionality - tap on the Roland GK hex pickup with a metal screwdriver to verify functionality with a test GR-55/VG-99 and 13 pin cable connection.

2)  Temporarily wire up the three way "Guitar / Mix/ Synth" switch per the GK-3 Kit Internal instructions -  Move the Switch to the Synth position, use an ohm meter to establish which wire connections at the switch are making connections when  the Switch in the "Synth position - verify the GK-3 is working with your Test GR-55/VG-99 and 13 pin cable connection.

3) Then remove the "Guitar / Mix/ Synth" switch, and re-solder ONLY the switch wire connections that were verified to be making connection in step #2 


QuoteMy other question is for the DPDT switch I'm using in place of the 2 supplied button switches, do I need to solder the center lug to just the (black) shield wir


The Center lugs are Ground. Details on the (on)/Off/(on) Momentary switch to replace the S1, S2 switches is here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=654.0

Gassghost

Anyone have a schematic of the GK Kit 8 pin connector or preamp board? I really don't want a switch rattling around inside my guitar. Good suggestion though...

Thanks,
Gass
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric

#5
QuoteI really don't want a switch rattling around inside my guitar.

Im not suggesting you do that

QuoteI suggest

1)  Mock things up on a bench before drilling any holes, to establish GK-3 functionality - tap on the Roland GK hex pickup with a metal screwdriver to verify functionality with a test GR-55/VG-99 and 13 pin cable connection.

2)  Temporarily wire up the three way "Guitar / Mix/ Synth" switch per the GK-3 Kit Internal instructions -  Move the Switch to the Synth position, use an ohm meter to establish which wire connections at the switch are making connections when  the Switch in the "Synth position - verify the GK-3 is working with your Test GR-55/VG-99 and 13 pin cable connection.

3) Then remove the "Guitar / Mix/ Synth" switch, and re-solder ONLY the switch wire connections that were verified to be making connection in step #2


QuoteAnyone have a schematic of the GK Kit 8 pin connector or preamp board?

RolandUS changed their policy in 2008, and no longer sells Roland Service Manuals.

But we do have a schematic of the very similar 1997 era GK-2A.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0 

MCK

Quote from: Gassghost on February 12, 2013, 03:29:48 PM
Anyone have a schematic of the GK Kit 8 pin connector or preamp board? I really don't want a switch rattling around inside my guitar. Good suggestion though...

Thanks,
Gass

Heh he. The EE in our midst is giving you the proper guidance.  ;D The hack (me) advice is to simply use Duct take or cable tie to leave it in there and not rattle... Leaving it standard is always good in case you wish to sell one day and the new owner wants the switch. Just a thought.

Gassghost

#7
Hey Guy's

I really appreciate the help, don't get me wrong. I do understand the suggestions. I was replying a little tongue-n-cheek... I'm also not and an electronics wizard like others here. Just OK with a soldering iron. I just thought these would be easy questions since I'm sure I'm not the first person to use a GK-Kit on a hex pickup only guitar with no mix switch. I just don't want to plug this in and smoke a $229.00 GK-kit

Thanks,
Gass
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Gassghost

Update:

I soldered the MIX switch in and actually found out I had the wrong DPDT switch so off to radio shack tomorrow for an off/on/off. So now here's the weird thing, the mix switch does not do anything but if I short the purple wire for S1 to ground it seems to activate the synth not change patch.  Otherwise the signal coming from the 13 pin just seems to be guitar (MY VG works but the GR does not till I short the purple wire to ground. Shorting the Gray wire (S/2) does nothing.  The GK volume switch is not functioning either. So worst case I have no S1/S2 functionality and no GK vol (which i don't use that much anyway) best case is at least it's sending a signal to my VG ans GR...

Thoughts?

Gass
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric

#9
Correct - the ""Guitar / Mix/ Synth"" switch is an On/Off/On DPDT Center off Switch.
This should be included in your Kit.


Re the S1 / S2 not working - sounds like you do not have the Black Ground Wire properly routed.

Suggest use baby steps - wire up on a bench using ALL the included parts and follow the complete factory Instructions - and test with your GR-55 to gain confidence on your wiring.

Once you have achieved / confirmed all functionality, THEN remove the ""Guitar / Mix/ Synth"" switch and re-solder ONLY the switch wire connections that were verified to be making connections in the "Synth position.

And then swap the S1 / S2 Momentary switches for the spring loaded Momentary (on)-OFF-(on) type Switch
details here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=654.0


carydad

I just left it tapped up inside my lifeson. I always leave it set to the middle. If I want to kill the mags, I do it in the patch(normal pickup 0). Hack version for me :)

Gassghost

Quote from: Elantric on February 13, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
Correct - the ""Guitar / Mix/ Synth"" switch is an On/Off/On DPDT Center off Switch.
This should be included in your Kit.


Re the S1 / S2 not working - sounds like you do not have the Black Ground Wire properly routed.

Suggest use baby steps - wire up on a bench using ALL the included parts and follow the complete factory Instructions - and test with your GR-55 to gain confidence on your wiring.

Once you have achieved / confirmed all functionality, THEN remove the ""Guitar / Mix/ Synth"" switch and re-solder ONLY the switch wire connections that were verified to be making connections in the "Synth position.

And then swap the S1 / S2 Momentary switches for the spring loaded Momentary (on)-OFF-(on) type Switch
details here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=654.0




By the way, this is the schematic/manual for the GK2 Internal. My amp board is much different than this. I have the GK3 Internal. The manual is on Rolands site as GK-KIT-GT3.  I'm still trying to figure out why when I send the purple wire to ground I get hex signal. I wired everything up according to the GK-KIT-GT3 instrucrions except I have no wiring going to the guitar pickups since there are none.  I have no GK vol control, no switching from hex to guitar (the guitar  setting should be quiet since there are no mags) and when I toggle the  S1/S2 momentary I get hex when the purple wire side of the switch is activated. (I'm starting to wonder if the manual is wrong...) Also I thought I had the wrong switch for the S1/S2 toggle because I have an on/off/on and the manual shows an off/on/off. I don't know if such a switch exists??? What would the center be contacting to when rebounded? This is frustrating. I've done 2 GK2 internals before and had nowhere near these kinds of problems. I've now contacted Roland and there getting back to me..Ya right.
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric

#12
Post pics of your install - maybe we can help troubleshoot

My first post in this thread has a link to the manual you seek

==
GK-3 Kit Internal Install Manual is here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=78.0;attach=4490

gumtown

#13
The mix switch should be a on/off/on SPDT type, if you leave it disconnected it will be set to "mix" which will be OK.

Going by the schematic below you should be able to leave the switch, S1/S2, led plug completely removed, if you don't require those functions.
and also leave the guitar out 3 pin plug removed and just solder bridge the normal pU pins together to prevent induced noise/humm.

I have a spare GK(3) - Kit sitting in a drawer at home, i will have to dig it out and have a look.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

#14
The Real GK-3 Internal uses a on/off/on DPDT type switch for the "Guitar / Mix / GK" function, and one side of the switch selects the appropriate Voltage level fed to Pin#9

GK-3 (Pin#9) Voltage Range: (GK  = 1.56V / Mix =  1.04V / Guitar =  0.52V
- depending on the position of the "Guitar / Mix / GK" Selector Switch.

QuoteThe mix switch should be a on/off/on SPDT type, if you leave it disconnected it will be set to "mix" which will be OK.

That will work too - as long as you choose "GK-2A" as your Gk type on your GR-55 / VG-99 - since you will be missing the proper voltage on pin#9 if you omit the "Guitar / Mix / GK" Selector Switch.

Below is a GK-3

Gassghost

Here are some photos. If you need a different view I'll take more.

Thanks,
Gass
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric

Cool -


Just supply a new pic with a better closeup of the wires in the yellow circle here: 


Gassghost

OK, Here are the images. FYI I reversed the wires coming from the HEX so I can mount the hex in reverse. (in case things look a little odd.). Also, I'm using the supplied DPDT switch for the mix. The switch I've been commenting about is the toggle STDP  off/on/off replacement for S1/S2 buttons
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Gassghost

Ha...

Well Roland just responded and pretty much told me I could just start pairing combinations of wires till I find what works. No need to worry about blowing out the pre amp board.  Hummm, that's helpful!

Gass
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric

#19
QuoteAnyone have a schematic of the GK Kit 8 pin connector or preamp board? I really don't want a switch rattling around inside my guitar. Good suggestion though...


GK-KIT-Internal - GK-3 INTERNAL Schematic is attached

(higher quality PDF version is attached)





As a Reference   - the above GK-KIT-Internal Electrical Schematic is a detailed version of the Pre-Amp Board depicted in
  this GK-KIT-Internal - Wiring Diagram below, with most connectors arranged in a similar manner



If you see a signal marked "GND" or "Shield"  - tie all these "Ground" signals together with a separate BLACK WIRE and be sure to connect GND to your Bridge String Ground too.
The Roland GK-Kit Internal Wiring Diagram depicts these same Ground Connections as a wire labeled (*1)  - this is Ground and very important to make all these connections tie all together, and connect to your internal Bridge Ground Connection too !


Elantric

#20
and here is the GK-KIT Internal with NO Normal Guitar Pickup

(higher quality PDF version is attached)


If you see a signal marked "GND" or "Shield" - tie all these "Ground" signals together with a separate BLACK WIRE and be sure to connect GND to your Bridge String Ground too.




This would re-create the electronics in this "GTM" GK demo guitar





Gassghost

Hi All:

This is great! WOW...

I'm going to hit the bench right now re-wire and see what happens. The only question I have is, I'm assuming the blue and orange wires are left un-connected?

Thank you all for the attention to this challenge. I'll let you know what happens. By the way I almost bought that guitar on ebay!...

Gass
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric

QuoteI'm going to hit the bench right now re-wire and see what happens. The only question I have is, I'm assuming the blue and orange wires are left un-connected?

Thank you all for the attention to this challenge. I'll let you know what happens. By the way I almost bought that guitar on ebay!...


Correct. If its not connected in the schematic, leave it open with no other connections.

Gassghost

Hi All:

Ok a final wrap up the GK-only installation. After much digging and a returned and replaced GK-KIT. I found the source of my problems. When doing the original install I had an old 13 pin connector for the guitar, I used that instead of the one that comes in the GK-KIT. I received the new KIT and had the identical problem. So I was just about to light the torch and commit the project to eternal doom when the light bulb went on. I swapped out the two 13 pin connectors and Woo Hoo! Everything worked. What a bone head. I never thought the pin configuration on the older connector and the new ones would be different. So now, I have a 79 Strat GK only with working GK vol and a S1/S2 toggle. Bare bones but really cool looking (I think). (Now for that UV LED!)  Thanks for all the help and assistance with this modification. I think I have a Tele headed for the same!

Gass
GR-303 updated electronics, Stetsbar, Sustainiac
GR-808 (original) + Stetsbar (FOR SALE)
79 Strat w/ GK-2A
Eastman El Ray 1 and El Ray 3
94 Fender Tele w/GK-2A, Stetsbar
2 Fender GTX 100's
VG-99, GR-55, FC-300
And studio full of stuff

Elantric

Glad to hear you got it all sorted out and working!

And thanks for the info on the pin-out change on the dual ribbon to 13 pin connector for different year versions of the Gk Internal Kit.