GK3 cannot drive GR300 patch.. high E string second octave low and muddy

Started by pasha811, April 02, 2023, 09:48:18 PM

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pasha811

Using the GR300 solo patch in the preset area, I noticed that when playing the high E string beyond the 12th frets I heard a muffled sound, low volume and not a GR300 at all. Strange enough the VGuitar patches sound great so the various guitar models have no problems on the high E string. Conversely my other guitar with GK2A plays the GR300 patch perfectly in every area of the neck, the sound is very present and not muffled or muddy at all even on the high É string beyond the 12th fret.
Tonight I will try with my GP10.... but if it's confirmed what can it be? Gk3 gone?
I have cleaned the contacts properly but no change.
I must say that the GK3 equipped guitar exhibits a curios behavior also when using normal PU. The high É string sounds with a little but perceivable difference in volume compared with B string. The guitar is an LTD ST213. What do you think?

Thanks
Paolo
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/


gumbo

Quote from: pasha811 on April 02, 2023, 09:48:18 PMI must say that the GK3 equipped guitar exhibits a curios behavior also when using normal PU. The high É string sounds with a little but perceivable difference in volume compared with B string. The guitar is an LTD ST213. What do you think?

Check the nut, check the saddle...even try a new string before you start tearing everything to bits..
....and (if it is appropriate on this guitar) check that the Mag pickup pole piece is not too close to that particular string string..either by adjustment if there is any, or as a consequence of a bridge saddle that's not sitting where and / or how it should.

...then there's neck relief above the 12th fret to look at...  ;)

Just saying...all of these things could cause the string to behave incorrectly in relation to the hex pickup and/or the mag pickup.

Cheers,
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Brak(E)man

Just for good measure I'd try a thicker gauge high e string ( than what you have now) too see what happens.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

gumbo

Quote from: Brak(E)man on April 03, 2023, 03:02:22 AMJust for good measure I'd try a thicker gauge high e string ( than what you have now) too see what happens.


FWIW, I have always used 10 - 52 (Elixir) on my RR Strats...I now find myself (in my old age!) definitely uncomfortable with anything below a 10 on High E...   :(   ...funny how things grow on one..including mildew..

...and 11 - 49 on the Burns Bison, but that's another story..
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pasha811

Thanks  to all of you! My gauge is .09.

I just tried with GP10, the same guitar - the same cable -the same GK3 (with the same sensitivity settings I got n VG99)
Situation improved. I have no problems with WAVE and OSC Sounds but some with GR300, especially when ENV is ON or Inverted. So it might not be string after all. Next step I will copy the sound settings FWIW from VG99 to GP10 and if I can reproduce at least I have something to work on.
The relief over the 12th Fret looks good and any other sound is no muffled or 'muted'. It's only the Envelope of GR300 that triggers situations like the one described.
Maybe I'll record something for you to listen but not until tonight... now I have to take calls from Customers.. but at least being remote worker for today I could check with GP10. ;-)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Headless68

on the VG99 the GR300 model really likes to be driven - you might find it is best to have another GK profile for your guitar that is higher output than what you normally use and use that for GR300 patches that need that extra push
(GK2 & GK2a are hotter than GK3 which may explain your GK2a guitar sounding fine)

Elantric

On VG-99 , verify you are actually changing the "GK Type" to the currently used divided pickup

GK-2A = GK Type GK-2A

GK-3 = GK Type GK-3

pasha811

Quote from: Headless68 on April 03, 2023, 06:30:15 AMon the VG99 the GR300 model really likes to be driven - you might find it is best to have another GK profile for your guitar that is higher output than what you normally use and use that for GR300 patches that need that extra push
(GK2 & GK2a are hotter than GK3 which may explain your GK2a guitar sounding fine)

Thanks I'll try that and let you know. Usually I play my GK2A Guitar with VG99 but recently I like a lower action and the GK3 Guitar is going up in the ranks...  ::)
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pasha811

Quote from: Elantric on April 03, 2023, 06:33:00 AMOn VG-99 , verify you are actually changing the "GK Type" to the currently used divided pickup

GK-2A = GK Type GK-2A

GK-3 = GK Type GK-3

Thanks Steve!
I confirm that VG99 is set as GK3 with a GK3 and the issue is still there.
I also checked position = NORMAL as it is and polarity NORMAL.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

On GR-300 emulation, I also raise the GK String Sensitivity above the default "65"

pasha811

Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

Well, I have done some tests:

1 - Copied the settings from the VG99 patch to GP10. The results were encouraging.The problem is still there but not so much audible
2 - Raised the settings of GK3 in VG99 (moving from all strings 50 and high E 61 to all strings 80 and high string 90) and it worked you can hear the timbre difference in the attached audio. https://on.soundcloud.com/2mLVH
Only thing that remain to be tested is to swap the GK3 for a new one...
In any case I am now actively looking for a working GK2A in good conditions on the used market. This 'adventure' with GK3 was unexpected to me. For all those years I've been using VG99 practically with a single GK2A Guitar. Only lately I was using the GK3 one. My usual sounds were the same. I discover the difference only when using GR300 Model.

Lesson learned. Not bad from a  VG99 owner since 2011!  :-\  :-[  :P  ::)  ???  :o

Thanks for your time and help!

Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

Let me resurrect this.
Lately I made my homeworks and tested VG99 and GP10 with both a GK2A and a GK3 on different guitars. The result were discouraging to say the least.
From my findings (I used a moderate sensitivity setting for GK2A compared to moderate and high sensitivity for GK3) it looks like that GK2A wins all over the place when comes to the following COSM Models:

GR300 in both VG99 and GP10
WAVE in both VG99 and GP10 (in this case is less noticeable but it's there)
OSC only in GP10 but responds more or less the same.
The GP–10 also includes polyphonic effects, such as the Crystal metallic sound, a Slow Pad for string-synth–like effects, and Polyphonic Distortion. Using those with both GK and settings did not create any unbalanced response but the GK3 always needs a tad more sensitivity than GK2A.

We have a draw with Electric and Acoustic Models.

So what's the point of having a GK3 anyway? Are you experiencing the same?

Thanks
Pasha




Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

gumbo

Welcome to the World of "The Higher Roland Number Is NOT Always Better" ....   :-X 

...seems like 'improvements' sometimes have their costs in other areas, so quite often it becomes a balancing act between what one actually now gets vs what one actually has lost along the way.

...I reckon the fact that early VG and GR models still appeal to some people supports this argument  ;)

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pasha811

Quote from: gumbo on April 11, 2023, 03:07:09 PMWelcome to the World of "The Higher Roland Number Is NOT Always Better" ....   :-X 

...seems like 'improvements' sometimes have their costs in other areas, so quite often it becomes a balancing act between what one actually now gets vs what one actually has lost along the way.

...I reckon the fact that early VG and GR models still appeal to some people supports this argument  ;)



Thanks Peter I like your statement! :-)
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pasha811

Resurrecting this as I had time to check properly. The high E string intersects the GK3 pole far from the middle, a little on the left. There's room to move the GK3 'up' - towards the Low E, so I think it might be useful to try it. I will update when done.   
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/