Trouble with Sample rates

Started by Elboy, November 22, 2011, 03:37:48 PM

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Elboy

Guys, i might be doing something silly hear but in Logic i have recorded songs at 48htz.  I wanted to convert the WAV files to MP£ so i could load up to Reverbnation.  Reverbnation rejects the file as they require the format at MP3 44.1htz.  Have i srcewed up?   :-\
Gibson Dark Fire DF 2053 (currently very healthy, although the paint on the pickups is coming off!!!)
Epiphone LP custom EMGs
Eastwood Airline
Gretch projet
Ibanez AELL40SERLV
Hughes and Ketner 25 anniversary 20watt tube amp

Zummooz-fgn

All mine is done at 44.1 htz in Logic, so I can't really help ya out.

Quote from:  Elboy on November 22, 2011, 03:37:48 PM
Have i srcewed up?   :-\
Don't think so
But ... have heard lots of downloading problems with Reverbnation !!

So may I suggest either try CDBaby or Soundcloud.
I thought you would go for CD Baby as it seems to be the best return $$$$$ wise, connects to i-Tunes too.
http://www.cdbaby.com/About
http://soundcloud.com/
I presume these will take 48 htz Mp3's

Now ya got me puzzled  :P
If I find anything else out, shall let ya know.  :)
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

simont-fgn

Quote from:  Elboy on November 22, 2011, 03:37:48 PM
Guys, i might be doing something silly hear but in Logic i have recorded songs at 48htz.  I wanted to convert the WAV files to MP£ so i could load up to Reverbnation.  Reverbnation rejects the file as they require the format at MP3 44.1htz.  Have i srcewed up?   :-\

Open the songs in itunes and from the Advanced tab choose " create MP3 version".

Just on Reverbnation, I've never uploaded to there, but often give up listening to tracks due to poor glitchy playback.

Zummooz-fgn

Ummm ... I thought / read that Elboy is having trouble getting his Mp3's done at 48htz into Reverbnation.

As Reverbnation rejects his files at the 48ghz Mp3's

Or have I just been drinking to much  ;D
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

simont-fgn

hic!!  ;D

I meant for El to import the wav into itunes and then convert it to mp3.
The mp3 file settings are in preferences>general> when you import CD> import settings> settings >custom >and set to the required rates.

Those settings govern the conversion, not just importing from CD/DISC.

Then when you 'create Mp3 version' of an imported file it will use those settings for the conversion.

Zummooz-fgn

#5
That means you can change the sample rate via i-Tunes ?

If so cheers I just learnt something ..... Must stop drinking    Must stop drinking    Hic - up  .... Buuuuuurp  ;D
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

simont-fgn

Quote from:  Zummooz on November 23, 2011, 03:02:55 AM
That means you can change the sample rate via i-Tunes ?



yep.. and the bit depth.

AMPLE rates is a different matter however  ;)

Zummooz-fgn

Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

Elboy

Hmmmm ITunes seems to convert to MP3 at the recorded sample rate.  I tried as suggested prior to posting however it does not seem to convert....ithink???  How do you check that an MP3s sample rate?
Gibson Dark Fire DF 2053 (currently very healthy, although the paint on the pickups is coming off!!!)
Epiphone LP custom EMGs
Eastwood Airline
Gretch projet
Ibanez AELL40SERLV
Hughes and Ketner 25 anniversary 20watt tube amp

simont-fgn

Quote from:  Elboy on November 23, 2011, 12:15:06 PM
How do you check that an MP3s sample rate?

Right click on the file in itunes and select get info. The summary tab will give you the file details.

Maybe were on the wrong track here.
Telll us what sample rate and bit depth you recorded the multi/tracks at and what rate and depth you mixed down to.

Elboy

right in Itunes its converted to MP3 at 48 htz  within Logic i am recording the session at 48htz as well, i had read that there is no real point in going higher.  My audio interface can go to 192, but i plumbed for above 44.1.

I have not mastered yet however logic allows you to bounce and during this process i tried to set to 44.1 however it rejects this.  I then pulled a bounced copy back int oLogic as a stereo mix and44.1 however this changed the speed of the track.  I am sure i am missing a step here as i am positive the pro's must record at the highest level and then convert back to 44.1 to mix to CD (especially orchestral music, i would think they would use the full headroom)  I was bounced as a WAV and as a WAV and MP3 (logic gives these option) but in all cases it sticks to 48htz
Gibson Dark Fire DF 2053 (currently very healthy, although the paint on the pickups is coming off!!!)
Epiphone LP custom EMGs
Eastwood Airline
Gretch projet
Ibanez AELL40SERLV
Hughes and Ketner 25 anniversary 20watt tube amp

simont-fgn

Most of us record at 24 bit 44.1 k.

What were the properties of the file that you imported into itunes?

Elboy

Quote from:  simont on November 23, 2011, 05:01:19 PM
Most of us record at 24 bit 44.1 k.

What were the properties of the file that you imported into itunes?
24bit 48k and it is exported from logic aif file as well as an MP3.  Is that what you mean by properties?
Gibson Dark Fire DF 2053 (currently very healthy, although the paint on the pickups is coming off!!!)
Epiphone LP custom EMGs
Eastwood Airline
Gretch projet
Ibanez AELL40SERLV
Hughes and Ketner 25 anniversary 20watt tube amp

Elantric-fgn

#13

In general -

* if you are targeting Video soundtracks, DVD, BlueRay - use 24bit at 48kHz, 96kHz, 192KHz

* if you are targeting 16bit Audio CD Release  - prior to mastering, use 24bit at 44.1kHz, 88.2kHz,  176.4kHz


If you skip the SAMPLE RATE CONVERSION STEP - your 48kHz Master files will play flat and slow when played at 44.1kHz

http://popwatch.ew.com/2007/10/29/van-halens-jump/



===
Suggest review this article on Sample rates
http://tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm
But should you record at a high sample rate?  Alright! Remember now that the sample rate is hugely different than the bit depth.  Its going to depend on who you ask.  Some people say "It's all going to end up as 44.1 any way" when the cd is burned.  Others will tell you that when an audio interface processes and mixes sounds at 96 kHz the result is better and remains better even after the final conversion to 44.1.  And just about every other position is taken too.  Some say 16/44.1 is good enough for CD its good enough for me.  Others say do 24/44.1 because it's not that much more space and it increases the signal to noise ratio.   There is one argument that says 24/88.2 is superior to 24/96 because it is an even number conversion going back to 44.1. 

Regarding the sample rate, unless you have a good reason not to, use a sample rate of 44.1.  If you are doing audio for video you might want to use 48 khz as many editors only use that rate.  Some kinds of music seem to benefit slightly from the high resolution of 88.2 or 96 khz.  Acoustic instruments, like guitars, percussion, and of course vocals, i.e., things with delicate high frequencies seem to benefit but its subtle. Lets say you had a $399 audio interface with onboard preamps.  Replacing your preamp and converters with better ones will give you more of a sonic difference at 44.1 that recording at 96khz will. 

Once inside the sequencer, audio files may be converted to 32 bit for processing and converted back to 24 or 16 on the way out.  So, my advice is to record at 24 bits/44.1 at minimum and go up to a sample rate of 88.2 or 96 if you think your material warrants it (and you have the disk space.)



What about the 192khz rate? Ok, let me get you to think of how audio interface manufacturers plan to get you to buy their products.  One company comes out with 192 then they all feel they have to or they will lose sales.  Its hype in my opinion. If you want to fill up hard drives faster, go ahead and use it.  We have debated this long an hard on the forums.  In the end, no one can tell the difference.   
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

Elboy

Tks Elantric. Q what sample rate conversion step? I don't seem to be able to change it in the bounce window
Gibson Dark Fire DF 2053 (currently very healthy, although the paint on the pickups is coming off!!!)
Epiphone LP custom EMGs
Eastwood Airline
Gretch projet
Ibanez AELL40SERLV
Hughes and Ketner 25 anniversary 20watt tube amp

Zummooz-fgn

#15
In the bounce pop up window in Logic if it's set to MP3 you don't have that option.
Can change the bit rate thou.

If you bounce as PCM will have the option to change things in Sample Rate (3rd one down in the list) on the right.

Try that maybe ...  ;)

Got to tick the box  :P

Here's the Bounce section from logic manual, if anyone is interested.
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

simont-fgn

Quote from:  Elboy on November 23, 2011, 05:05:50 PM
24bit 48k and it is exported from logic aif file as well as an MP3.  Is that what you mean by properties?

Quote from:  Zummooz on November 23, 2011, 11:36:16 PM
Here's the Bounce section from logic manual, if anyone is interested.

Ah, so Logic calls audio mixdown bouncing. I never knew that!!

In itunes >preferences set 'CD import'  to mp3 / 320 kbps / 44.1 khz

In Logic, for your 'bounce':-
1. select PCM as the destination
2. select either aiff or wav / 16 bit/ 44.1/interleaved
3. enable dither
4. tick 'add to itunes library'

Do the bounce> open in itunes and go advanced > create mp3 version


Zummooz-fgn

Yep thats pretty much it simont  ;)

But the Dithering I would leave as .... NO Dithering (bottom of page 845) until it's actually a final / finished / completed mix down.
Someone told me that ages ago.
Plus somewhere in amongst all the PDF's for Logic it says best till leave off till the very last thing.
As Elboy has just mixed etc in Logic, hasn't run it though Waveburner yet as a final mix. (Thats another lesson later on)
Logic is good & pretty deep as well. Thats why I added the PDF of that section so as others could see...
I've never used it (dithering) as I'm still playing around with my tracks.  ::)
Stupid me didn't spot this earlier on. I knew it could be done but was searching though i-Tunes  :-\  not logic.

No wonder they call it Logic  ;D

Now .... HOW did it go Elboy ?

Was this the solution ?  ;D

Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

simont-fgn

But it is a finished mixdown isnt it?

At some stage he needs to dither from 24 to 16, so you are  correct, the long way way is to do the mix (bounce  ::) ) to wav/aiff 24 bit. Import that bounce into a new logic project and then do a bounce to 16 bit with dither.


Zummooz-fgn

Quote from:  simont on November 25, 2011, 01:07:10 AM
But it is a finished mixdown isnt it?
Only in Logic thou I believe ... But will let him answer that one   :D
Waveburner is where you can do a complete final mix of the two final stereo tracks.
Like in a proper studio environment.

But you know me, I've been completely wrong before  ;)
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

simont-fgn

Waveburner is a CD mastering and authoring tool. You can master anywhere in any DAW with the right plug-ins.

You can also not master and just use your ears!!   ;)


This tune better be groovy El, I feel I know it already !!! ;D ;D ;D