"Lead"/SONAR/Original/Experimental Classical (Composed via a fractal algorithm)

Started by shawnb-fgn, November 04, 2009, 07:10:21 PM

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shawnb-fgn

OK, some mathematical gymnastics.   You'll either love it or hate it, consider it too academic & sterile, or amazing...   Here goes... 

I assume folks know what the fractal Koch curve is.   If not, check this out:
   (scroll down to 'Koch curve'):
        http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/cogsci/chaos/workshop/Fig4.7.GIF&imgrefurl=http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/cogsci/chaos/workshop/Workshop.html&h=265&w=304&sz=4&tbnid=-24_ipe9IbBz6M:&tbnh=101&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkoch%2Bcurve&usg=__q2PiMvg1c9iYYaQZa0HqAj4gMDw=&ei=Tz7ySpqcNZSasgOtg_UY&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=8&ct=image&ved=0CBgQ9QEwBw
   Or this:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_snowflake

I wrote a simple C++ program, invoked from within SONAR via the SONAR scripting language, CAL.  The reason I purchased SONAR was this ease of access to its inner workings.   

This screen shot shows the various stages of the building of this particular curve, I think it visually shows how the exact same fractal cascade algorithm used to build the Koch curve can be used on musical patterns.   (In fact, I wrote a graphics program to build Koch & similar curves, & the exact same recursive code was used to generate "Lead", and many pieces like it, with very few changes.)

The idea is simple: build a simple pattern (in this case the 7 tone 'rule').  substitute each component with a copy of the whole patern.   repeat a few times.  The only manual adjustment here was I lengthened the last note. 

Maybe just a curiosity for some.  But mathematically, but I believe that even killer rock lead solos are in fact fractal in nature.   That one of the reasons rock appeals to us is this concept of 'self similarity', and that music mirrors the self-similarity in nature.  I believe this simple little ditty helps prove my point. 

Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp

shawnb-fgn


A footnote:  The reason I consider this classical, is that it is a very natural advancement of 'serial' musical composition techniques.   In this Wikipedia entry, the fractal recursive algorithm would be the equivalent to 'total serialism', because the dynamics (MIDI velocities relative to each other), note duration, & all other MIDI note characteristics, are derived from the initial serial 'row', which correlates very strongly to the 'rule' or 'generator' used in fractal parlance. 
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serialism

Sorry if I'm boring y'all.   I love this stuff...
Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp

Trinity-fgn

that is cool .... esp about :25 when it gets fast

I bet fractal would be an awesome wat to generate an ambient bed for a pad sound.... if slowed way down with a small predefined set of chords within a short lower octave range.

as a lead instrument ....hmmmmm????

definately interesting


Elboy

i cant seem to download this at all, i have tried several times.  Do you have a myspace page i could visit?
Gibson Dark Fire DF 2053 (currently very healthy, although the paint on the pickups is coming off!!!)
Epiphone LP custom EMGs
Eastwood Airline
Gretch projet
Ibanez AELL40SERLV
Hughes and Ketner 25 anniversary 20watt tube amp

MCK-fgn

We did have some problems with the older attachments. Apologies for this.
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Elboy

i have tried a few few and they dont seem to download correctly, i thought it was my computer
Gibson Dark Fire DF 2053 (currently very healthy, although the paint on the pickups is coming off!!!)
Epiphone LP custom EMGs
Eastwood Airline
Gretch projet
Ibanez AELL40SERLV
Hughes and Ketner 25 anniversary 20watt tube amp

shawnb-fgn

I just tried & can't read it myself.  Something has changed.  No, I don't use myspace, maybe I should...  In the meanwhile I have google docs, let's see if that works!

http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B7ofLkcm55UgNTI5MGJlYmItZDRlZS00ZDUzLTk0MTYtZmIzOTE5MTM5MDJm&hl=en

Let me know if this link works for you!
Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp

MCK-fgn

Shawn, some attachments like yours were affected due to a small mind fart on my part. Apologies for that. If you modify your original post and re-attach your files all should be ok. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

shawnb-fgn

Thanx MCK, I'd rather not keep uploading content to FGN - although disk is cheap, I should own my own content.

I've confirmed the google docs .mp3 link I provided above works.

For those who want to see the screenshot I provide earlier, use this link to see how this was generated:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B7ofLkcm55UgMDZjYTM5YmYtNDRlNi00ZTI0LWFlZmUtYjVkZmJjNzMyMDQ0&hl=en

I am a fractal junkie...   It's the root of reality....  I truly believe that we love music when well done because it mirrors what it takes to build everything from broccolli to clouds.  Music ties it all together.   And Fractals are a mathematical clue.
Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp

shawnb-fgn

Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp

MCK-fgn

Quote from:  shawnb on March 13, 2010, 11:34:32 PM
I'd rather not keep uploading content to FGN - although disk is cheap, I should own my own content.

Sure thing. No pressure either way. The fact that you're sharing your work alone is great! Thanks once again.
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
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Elboy

I think this is interesting, Dance music has been the bedrock for this for some time.  In my previous band I was able to see first hand how to screw up a gig.  We used to play illegal all night raves to a few thousand people.  Music HAD to be rhythmic and melodically, you could NEVER play lead solos on the keyboard (I tried and almost got killed!!) .  If you look at the simplistic make up of early Acid tracks its similar although they were using the TB303 and using the 303 to alter the filter and build variation.

However one thing comes through time and time again 'The hook' or 'That killer riff'  It works in every piece of music. Dance music was no different could be a vocal/keyboard/guitar etc. I think your idea is the building blocks that we use, but on guitar i don't think anything can take the place of guitarist with soul in his fingers for solos there are just to many variations.  It astounds me what you can do with just 12 notes.
Gibson Dark Fire DF 2053 (currently very healthy, although the paint on the pickups is coming off!!!)
Epiphone LP custom EMGs
Eastwood Airline
Gretch projet
Ibanez AELL40SERLV
Hughes and Ketner 25 anniversary 20watt tube amp

MCK-fgn

Quote from:  Elboy on March 14, 2010, 03:17:44 AM
It astounds me what you can do with just 12 notes.

Wait till you try the fretless and realize the gap between the 12 notes is as fine as you can dare to try! Its a major revelation.
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
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Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
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shawnb-fgn

Thanx!   The simplest idea possible - start with a few notes, then substitute scaled copies of the whole for each part.   Repeat.   
Dogmatic attachment to the supposed merits of a particular structure hinders the search for an appropriate structure.
- Fripp