Placing SY-1 in pedal chain

Started by jcmathews, January 25, 2020, 07:55:20 AM

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jcmathews

Okay, I just got my SY-1 yesterday, and I like it. It ain't perfect, but I can dial enough sounds to be able to quit lugging around a keyboard for the small number of key parts that I've been playing on stage.

Question: how do you place it in your pedal chain? The problem for me is, it sends a dry guitar signal when the pedal is OFF, so I can't route the SY-1 signal to a different amp/input, which is what I had hoped to do.

I guess I'll build new Helix patches and put it in there as a send return. For example patch 1A can be a clean guitar patch and patch 1B right next to it would be a clean guitar patch with the SY-1 (routed to separate output paths so they don't intermix. If I want just guitar, I use patch 1A. Guitar and synth mixed, patch 1B. Synth only, patch 1B with the volume pedal all the way up on the guitar signal path. That way, I get three options in two patches.

How are you placing it in your chain?

Cheers,
JC


admin

Quote from: jcmathews on January 25, 2020, 07:55:20 AM
Okay, I just got my SY-1 yesterday, and I like it. It ain't perfect, but I can dial enough sounds to be able to quit lugging around a keyboard for the small number of key parts that I've been playing on stage.

Question: how do you place it in your pedal chain? The problem for me is, it sends a dry guitar signal when the pedal is OFF, so I can't route the SY-1 signal to a different amp/input, which is what I had hoped to do.

I guess I'll build new Helix patches and put it in there as a send return. For example patch 1A can be a clean guitar patch and patch 1B right next to it would be a clean guitar patch with the SY-1 (routed to separate output paths so they don't intermix. If I want just guitar, I use patch 1A. Guitar and synth mixed, patch 1B. Synth only, patch 1B with the volume pedal all the way up on the guitar signal path. That way, I get three options in two patches.

How are you placing it in your chain?

Cheers,
JC

It will track best when placed 1st in signal chain.

Some place a compressor 1st,  then SY-1 2nd - to be more consistent sounding - but you loose some dynamic response to picking

jcmathews

I really wish there was an option to turn off the dry signal when the pedal isn't engaged. That would make it way simpler to set up, and then you could send it to a different path or board input, and the sound man could mix it like a separate instrument.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: jcmathews on January 25, 2020, 10:42:30 AM
I really wish there was an option to turn off the dry signal when the pedal isn't engaged. That would make it way simpler to set up, and then you could send it to a different path or board input, and the sound man could mix it like a separate instrument.

Do you mean that even with the direct signal turned all the way down there's a dry signal in bypass ?
(Sy-300 has that to but can stay least be turned off.)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

jcmathews

Yes. When the pedal is "on," then the dry guitar volume in the output is set by the control. When it's "off," then the dry guitar signal continues through the output. Either it won't (or I haven't figured out) how to send it up to kill the thru signal.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: jcmathews on January 25, 2020, 11:18:46 AM
Yes. When the pedal is "on," then the dry guitar volume in the output is set by the control. When it's "off," then the dry guitar signal continues through the output. Either it won't (or I haven't figured out) how to send it up to kill the thru signal.
Even if you have a dummie plug in the send out ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

jcmathews

What do you mean by dummie plug? Are you saying that if something is plugged into the "send" jack that it wont send a dry signal through the output jack?

Brak(E)man

#7
Quote from: jcmathews on January 25, 2020, 02:02:23 PM
What do you mean by dummie plug? Are you saying that if something is plugged into the "send" jack that it wont send a dry signal through the output jack?

Maybe since it should send the dry signal through the the send /return loop.
I would try that and if that doesn't work a dummy plug in the return ( but that might have other issues)
both are worth trying.

By dummy plug I mean a 1/4 " plug without a cable attached.
( I don't remember if that's what it's usually called or not )
An adapter plug is the best

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5mm-MONO-Socket-Single-to-Single-Mono-6-35mm-Male-Jack-Plug-Adapter-Guitar-/392060074224
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

Or if that doesn't work , have you tried sy-1 first in the chain using the send out to helix and mixing it outboard?
( should be the same result though )
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

Did you try it?
Curious if it works
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

gumtown

#11
You need a foot-switch that kills the SY output signal when not required if sending the SY-1 out to a separate mixer input.
The bypass function is normal for all effect pedals, if in a normal guitar pedal chain, switch it off needs to have a bypass through signal.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Brak(E)man

Quote from: gumtown on February 23, 2020, 12:50:03 PM
You need a foot-switch that kills the SY output signal when not required if sending the SY-1 out to a separate mixer input.
The bypass function is normal for all effect pedals, if in a normal guitar pedal chain, switch it off needs to have a bypass through signal.

Even in bypass mode the send/return should work, or am I missing something?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

gumtown

Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 23, 2020, 01:40:51 PM
Even in bypass mode the send/return should work, or am I missing something?

I would place my bets on the SY-1 in "bypass" will bypass 'everything', including the Send/Return.

but I could be wrong, my wife tells me I am quite often.  ;D
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Brak(E)man

QuoteEFFECT knob
This knob adjusts the volume of the effect sound (synth sound).
DIRECT knob
This knob adjusts the volume of the direct sound.
If a device is connected to the SEND/RETURN jacks, this knob adjusts its volume

Quote
Pedal switch
This switch turns the effects ON/OFF

QuoteSEND/RETURN jacks
Connect the SEND jack to the input, and RETURN jack to the output of an effect unit that you're using to process the audio signal of your guitar/bass.



This is from the " manual " and why I think that the send return should be still on in bypass.
But life is a mystery....
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

gumtown

I just got word from someone who has a SY-1, after I asked if they could test the Send/Return while the pedal is off/bypassed, and the Loop is still active in the effect off state.

QuoteThe send/return are still active even when the SY-1 is bypassed.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Brak(E)man

#16
Thanx

That should mean that by placing a dummy plug in the send jack and nothing in the return jack,
the guitar sound should not be in the output ever.

Could you ask if they could check?
Quote from: gumtown on February 23, 2020, 06:59:09 PM
I just got word from someone who has a SY-1, after I asked if they could test the Send/Return while the pedal is off/bypassed, and the Loop is still active in the effect off state.

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch