MS-3 > MIDX-20 > GP-10 > TRIO+ > Direct to PA + Guitar Amp

Started by MountainCraft, July 28, 2019, 08:55:06 AM

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MountainCraft

I'm starting to get my pedal board audio routed in a way that's pretty cool, and I want to add some functionality to it..

Currently, I have things set up so the The MS-3 controls patch changes on the GP-10 via a MIDX-20 and also controls 'scene selection' on my Behringer XR-18 digital mixer..

I have a stereo out of the the H/P jack on the GP-10 to the mixer, and the line out of the GP-10 is fed into the Guitar in of the MS-3..
The output of the MS-3 is fed into the FX return of the TRIO+ where a stereo out of it's H/P jack is fed to the mixer as well (4 ch to mixer)..
The 'Guitar Out) of the GP-10 is fed to an external guitar amp..  I have a dual Expression pedal (EV-30) plugged into CTL 1/2 of the MS-3 and it controls volume going into the TRIO+..

I'm digging the sound, having a blast with it, but I have to operate too much crap to control/mix the volume of everything...

I am working on my first 'serious' patch with factory patch 06 on the GP-10 (LP + 1959 Marshall), and Patch 1-01 on the MS-3 calls it up..
What's really cool is that when I step on the ctl 1 footswitch on the GP-10, the GP-10 does a little whammy bend up to the note of it's output, while the signal going to the guitar amp is unaffected, causing an original tone where the bend up comes up to match it..  Foot swith is painful to operate barefooted (how I lie to play at home on the patio), so I gotta look into switching the the bank up/down and the ctl footswitches on the GP-10 (will figure that out later)..

To use the Wah feature on the GP-10, I have to enable it, which disables it as a volume pedal..

What I'd like to be able to do, is to plug the other side of the EV-30 pedal into the GP-10 and have it control both the GP-10 and MS-3 volume simultaneously, and have things so that the Wah is enabled whenever the patch is called up...   The big problem is, how to control the volume of the direct out to the guitar amp too..

Is there a way to have the expression pedal plugged into the MS-3 control all three? Is there some sort of inexpensive, simple, (hopefully small) MIDI device that can receive MIDI messages from either the MIDX-20 or the MS-3 (will have to be through a MIDI splitter/Thru box) and it would also control the volume of the signal to the guitar amp (as well as a mute on/off feature)?

I also have the CTL 'out' of the MS-3 available if there is some sort of VCA device that that can operate to do this, but I was hoping to hook up a 'tap tempo' switch to that at some point.. 

I need to save the ctl 3/4 input on the MS-3 for an external pair of switches for bank up/down..  I'd love to be able to do that using the up down switches on the GK-3 control for controlling the MS-3 bank selection, but that would likely involve building some special circuitry that taps off of the GK cable and sends the commands to the MS-3 via either the MS-3 or MIDX-20 (meaning I'd lose some other functionality, I would only be able to do bank changes when using the GK guitar, and it would be a major headache to set up), seeing as there is no way that I know of for the GP-10 to output such a command back to the MS-3 via MIDI..

So basically, I'm looking for either a stand alone MIDI guitar volume control, or VCA guitar volume control (preferably the MIDI version so I can retain use of the CLT IN jack on the MS-3, not knowing if it could be used for that anyway)...

Does such a device exist?

Any other solutions I might be overlooking or unaware of?

Thanks,
Mark

MountainCraft

Found a couple of devices that can do it, but they are 'pricey' One is $220, and the other is $300..

Looks like I might have to make something..  I have a couple arudinos laying around, or I could buy a micro..  I have some MIDI jacks..  I guess all I would need is some sort of quiet good sounding VCA circuit diagram to make it happen..

All I really need is something that can read two MIDI channels, on for muting, and one for volume, and output it as a voltage for the VCA..  Alternatively, I guess I could use the CTL out of the MS-3 and go direct to a VCA..

Providing the MS-3 can either take the EXP input from the pedal and convert it to a CC# via the MIDI out or convert it to a control voltage at the CTL out..  I'm not entirely sure of the MS-3's capability on either front..

Any tips on a good VCA circuit I could adapt for controlling raw guitar pickup volume (ie do what the volume knob does on the guitar)?

CodeSmart

The MS-3 does not respond to any PC or CC. It only listens to SysEx.

An expression pedal connected to one of the MIDX-20 ctrl jacks could be made control both of the GP-10 and the MS-3 at the same time with some careful setup.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

MountainCraft

Quote from: CodeSmart on July 28, 2019, 11:49:16 AM
The MS-3 does not respond to any PC or CC. It only listens to SysEx.

An expression pedal connected to one of the MIDX-20 ctrl jacks could be made control both of the GP-10 and the MS-3 at the same time with some careful setup.

on page 11 of the BOSS MS-3 application guide, it seems to describe how to do what I want..  But I could easily be misunderstanding things... Unfortunately, until I have something to control it with, I can't test it though...  If ya get a change can you look at that page and see if that is indeed what I want?

I tried setting it up in the editor, and it seemed to go well, and it didn't seem to disable the MS-3 expression pedal as a volume pedal but also still allowed CC messages to be sent..

I'm not trying to get the MS-3 to respond to MIDI, only send.. Both the GP-10 and the MS-3 have CTL IN jacks, to connect expression pedals... and I bought a dual expression pedal (EV-30) and plugged one side into the MS-3 and the other into the MS-3..  Was just about to try it out, but came in to ask a question on another forum...

What I am trying to do is cause the MS-3 to send CC messages when I depress the expression pedal (which already controls the volume on the MS-3 and the GP-10) to an amplifier in line with an external guitar amp that is plugged into the GTR OUT jack on the GP-10, so that 'all' three are volume controlled by the one pedal..

I'll go out and test the standard use of the FV in a minute and get back to you to verify that works to control both the GP-10 and the MS-3 volume...  Don't want to use the PC based editor for the GP-10 until I get this ground loop resolved (by either getting a new battery for the laptop so I can operate it without the Power Supply plugged in, or get a new computer, or both, so right now I'm struggling to figure out how to edit everything how I want using the controls on the GP-10 itself..

Trying to make sure the expression pedal input on the thing controls volume, want to get rid of the volume control on it's built in pedal and use that for Wah when engaged, and something else when not (maybe to control how much string bend happens when I press ctl footswitch), and I want to get rid of the patch change up and down functions and make them control turning FX on and off, but so far all I've figured out how to do is make it so that the WAH is engaged when the patch is called up).. That's one of the things I was coming in to start researching...  How to program all that..

I still have the buttons on the GK controller should I need to do patch changes, the long term plan is to use the MS-3 for all of that..

It 'is' interesting though that you said the MS-3 can respond to an expression pedal plugged into the MIDX-20 though.. That's something to definitely keep in mind..  What else can be controlled in the MS-3 via the MIDX-20?  Can I add footswitches?

Thanks,
Mark

MountainCraft

Was hoping that the expression pedal jack on the GP-10 was programmed to control volume like it is on the MS-3, but it's not..  So now I gotta figure out how to program the GP-10 so that it does...

Not sure where to look for that (or exactly what it's called), in the system setting or the the patch setting..  But I'm off to try and work through that..

What I'm trying to do via the CC messages has nothing to do with the GP-10 at all, except for that is where I'm getting the dry guitar signal from (the GTR OUT jack)..  Trying to use the expression pedal already plugged into the MS-3 to send CC data to a yet to be bought/built MIDI controlled VCA to act as a volume pedal for that dry signal on it's way to a guitar amp..

CodeSmart

Quote from: MountainCraft on July 28, 2019, 12:56:21 PM
What else can be controlled in the MS-3 via the MIDX-20?  Can I add footswitches?

Yes, you may control virtually everything of the MS-3 (with the MS-3 Bridge loaded into MIDX-20) using FS.
http://www.primovasound.com/pdf/MIDX_20_MS3.pdf
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

MountainCraft

Quote from: CodeSmart on July 28, 2019, 09:18:04 PM
Yes, you may control virtually everything of the MS-3 (with the MS-3 Bridge loaded into MIDX-20) using FS.
http://www.primovasound.com/pdf/MIDX_20_MS3.pdf

I guess because of the names and  settings of the USB ports on the MIDX-20 I was under the impression that the MS-3 could only be a controller and couldn't be controlled in any way.. That only whatever was plugged into the

This is interesting information.. Means more freedom!  :D

MountainCraft

Anybody ever heard of or been exposed to this thing? If it sounds well, it might be the hot ticket for me!  Plus it is customizable as an FX/synth unit and Looks like it would fit in my 1U rack enclosure too!

http://www.axoloti.com/

MountainCraft

Ordered a LINE 6 M5 this afternoon..  It will do what I want at half the price of the dedicated units 'plus' I get all those cool LINE 6 FX, too! and it's small enough I can squeeze it in the second half of my pedalboard...  So it handles FX for the guitar amp...

Very interested in the Axoloti synth...  Gonna leave space for it in the other 1U rack box in the other half of the pedalboard..  I can put it in one of the loops of the MS-3, where it's better suited anyway (that way I can record it into the TRIO+ looper with everything else)

Mark