Kemper - Preamp and Poweramp Profiles - How to Use Them

Started by scratch17, February 21, 2019, 01:26:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

scratch17

First of all, a shout out to Alan (AKA @Wheresthedug) on the Kemper forum. He woke me up by showing me the steps needed to create a power amp profile. I'd already made profiles of my hardware preamps but I was unaware that it was possible to make a profile of just a power amp.

So the first question is why bother doing this at all?

With both sections of the amp profiled, you gain vast flexibility.

With a preamp profile loaded into the tone stack of your Kemper, you can send an analog output to a real guitar amp. "So what?", you say. "I can just play the real amp."

True, but what if you want to combine a Fender Blackface preamp* and a Mesa 20/20 power amp?

There are vast numbers of combinations of pre and power amp sections you could create with separate profiles.

I am going to go slightly off topic here for a specific reason. In order to gain access to a guitar preamp so it can be profiled, there must be a physical break point between it and its power amp section. The same is true for the power amp section.

That break point is actually a serial effects loop. A parallel effects loop won't work because it adds some preamp back in at the loop return.

If your head or combo amp doesn't have a series loop you are out of luck unless you are willing to mod your amp. Back to that mod later.*

If you do have a series loop on two amps (say a Mesa 5:50 Express+ and a Marshall Origin OR20H), you can simply connect the send from the Mesa's loop to the return of the Marshall. Now you'd have the Mesa preamp and Marshall amp. And yes, you could simply make a profile of that combination.

But what if you have access to 20 or more guitar amps with serial effects loops? Do the math and you realize that you would need to profile hundreds of combinations to cover all of the possibilities.

So what is the solution? Profile the 20 preamps and the 20 power amps separately. That is 40 profiles.

Then get a second Kemper.

Yes, you read that correctly. I am going to buy a used non-powered Kemper. This will be two that I own. I will be setting up in many ways, but here is the routing setup I will use much of the time.

Kemper 1 --> Universal Audio Apollo --> Kemper 2

Each --> represents a S/PDIF coaxial cable. Note that this routing keeps everything in the digital domain, after the A/D conversion, until the D/A conversion.

In Kemper 1, I will load a preamp profile. Kemper 2 will get a power amp profile loaded into its tone stack.

The Apollo will act as a multi effects box.**

Note that this routing mimics the real world path of preamp --> time based effects --> power amp. External analog pedals can be integrated too, because there will be an effects loop on each of the Kempers.

Since the Kemper has S/PDIF and the Apollo has ADAT I/O, I am thinking of using a MOTU LP32 AVB interface to connect them all. Then routing reconfiguration is a snap with presets in the included routing grid software. There are lots of other routing setups that will provide me with a plethora of other combinations.

* Back to the amp mod. A Fender Bandmaster does not have an effects loop. Nor does a Marshall Plexi. The question is, are you willing to mod a vintage amp?

If it is a Bandmaster, I say yes. A Plexi is another story all together. I say no way Jose!

The rarity of the amp is the biggest factor for me. I don't believe it is worth it to desecrate a really rare amp just to put a break point between the pre and power amp sections.

So why did I put a Bandmaster preamp in the example above? Because I plan on doing a mod to my '68 Bandmaster. It is getting re-capped and a Metropoulos Zero Loss FX Loop will be added to it.

I got lucky with this amp (my third Bandmaster). I was not knowledgeable about what I had when I sold my first two Bandmasters. Both were Blackface (AB763) models. I got this Silverface '68 from another seller who didn't know what he had. Even though the AB763 circuit was supposed to be out of production in 1968, Fender had a lot of unused parts left over from 1967 early in '68. So they used them. My amp was built in early February with the '67 Blackface design and parts. Woohoo!

Since this is not an actual 1967 or earlier Blackface Bandmaster, even though it is under the hood, I am willing to have it modified.

My Marshall DSL 401 has a parallel loop. It is an easy mod that I will have done. I have profiled its preamp. The preamp section of an amp is not effected by the parallel configuration of its loop. However, to get an fully isolated power amp section for profiling, the loop must be modified to eliminate any of the amp's preamp signal from entering the power amp.

** The Universal Audio Apollos are excellent interfaces. Here, I am using my Apollo Quad as an effects box, not as a way to send audio to my DAW.

The Apollo series was not designed to be an effects box for live use, so setting it up to act as one requires a bit of work. In this case, I will still need to use my Mac to host the UA system's Console 2 application. Console 2 will only be needed to insert the plugins I want to use. The routing will go from the digital input to Console for effects insertion. The channel will be then routed to the digital output. Total round trip latency will be under 2 ms. Probably half that.

The physical connection will be via S/PDIF if connected directly to the Kempers, or ADAT if I use a MOTU LP32 and its routing grid.

Why not use a Fractal FX3 or a line 6 Helix instead of an Apollo?

It's true that these devices will work in this setup better in some ways. These effects boxes have MIDI control of effects parameters. As of now, almost all Apollo plugins have no MIDI parameter support. And because they were designed as dedicated effects boxes they do not require use of a computer.

The answer is simple for me. There is simply no other platform that has this group of unique plugin effects with ultra high quality. The UAD platform has extremely realistic emulations of a vast range of effects, amps and pedals that cannot be found elsewhere.

These plugins are developed in many cases by the original hardware manufacturer or at least with their input. Legends like Moog, Empirical Labs, Roland, Korg, Cooper, A/DA, Dytronics, Eventide, Neve, SSL, Manley, AKG, Lexicon, Ampex, and Eventide have plugins on the UAD platform.

And then there are the amp and pedal sims from Fuchs, Friedman, Fender, Marshall, Engl, etc. I mentioned that reordering routing brought in more combinations that mix and match preamps, power amps, effects and cabinets.

You can use the cabs from a UA amp sim with a Kemper by turning off the amp sim's pre and power amp sections. Many of these plugins can do so.

Or you could combine a Kemper preamp amp profile with a UA amp sim's power amp section. Or vice versa.



Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio