Axon Guitar to MIDI Timeline?

Started by jodama, January 09, 2019, 08:45:14 AM

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jodama

Is there some sort of list or timeline of the various Axon midi converters, and possibly the competing/equivalent Roland/Yamaha units? Or maybe a quick summary if someone is storing the information in their head? It seems like there isn't much on these units out there anymore, so I'd appreciate any information anyone could share.

I know (think?) the AX100mkII and AX50 were the last two, but I'm not sure what year they were released. Other than that, I'm totally in the dark...

admin

#1
Quote from: jodama on January 09, 2019, 08:45:14 AM
Is there some sort of list or timeline of the various Axon midi converters, and possibly the competing/equivalent Roland/Yamaha units? Or maybe a quick summary if someone is storing the information in their head? It seems like there isn't much on these units out there anymore, so I'd appreciate any information anyone could share.

I know (think?) the AX100mkII and AX50 were the last two, but I'm not sure what year they were released. Other than that, I'm totally in the dark...

Joel B. Christian MIDI GUITAR PAGE
http://www.midiguitar.net/midi_git.html


The S.O.S. magazine (UK)  reviews still exist

( Reviews in (In order of release))


1996 Yamaha G50 
1st version was a joint venture with Blue Chip Technologies and Yamaha
https://web.archive.org/web/20050305113746/http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996_articles/dec96/yamahag50.html


1998 Blue Chip Technologies AX100
https://web.archive.org/web/20050305111602/http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may98/articles/ax100.html

2006 Terratec AX100 MK II
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/terratec-axon-ax100-mkii

2007 Terratec AX50
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/terratec-axon-ax50-usb

http://home.epix.net/~joelc/axon.html

http://www.synthmanuals.com/manuals/blue_chip_music/axon_ax-100/owners_manual/blue_chip_music_ax100-db51_599_manual.pdf


Side note -   in 2006 had a tough year financially as Terratec released the Seymour "Duncan Designed" PU-100 GK 13 pin pickup with adjustable radius, which was basically a clone of the patented Roland GK-3 PU with  adjustable radius, and in 2007 Roland took Terratec to court and Roland won.

This occurred around the same time as the global RoHS/WEE non lead solder laws went into effect, and in USA  - Guitar Center sold their entire inventory of lead solder products at low cost - else face fines from California.

Lead Solder is also why the Crate Power Block went end of life in 2007  - sold for $60 to clear all inventory summer 2007   


2013 - bulk of the principal R&D engineers that developed the AXON Guitar to MIDI Systems , became part of the team that created the Fishman Tripleplay Guitar to MIDI System.
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/fishman-tripleplay

jodama

Thank you! Any knowledge about the earlier Axon units? There are a couple on Reverb (at least I think they are earlier), and I was curious about them as well. Specifically the NGC 66/77?

admin

#3
Quote from: jodama on January 10, 2019, 01:10:38 PM
Thank you! Any knowledge about the earlier Axon units? There are a couple on Reverb (at least I think they are earlier), and I was curious about them as well. Specifically the NGC 66/77?


NGC77 Manual
http://www.synthmanuals.com/manuals/blue_chip_music/axon_ngc_77/users_manual/blue_chip_music_axon_ngc77.pdf

Original Design team member, Andras Szalay ( now dba as Panda Audio) has this Axon NGC66 Flyer
http://www.panda-audio.com/pdf/axon-flyer.pdf

NGC66 Manual
http://www.synthmanuals.com/manuals/blue_chip_music/axon_ngc_66/users_manual/blue_chip_music_axon_ngc66.pdf

Biggest hurdle with above versions is AFAIK there is a lack of a Win/Mac GUI Editor

http://jpsongs.com/troubadortech/mgtr.htm
The Axon Guru is ArkieBoy
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=4775

But IMHO the AX-100 MKII is the one to get



jodama

I actually have an AX50 (which I think uses the same algorithm as the AX100?), and it's pretty great. Definitely better than any of the Roland units I've tried (basically all of them).

I also have an FTP and it's interesting to see the similarities between the two software applications. This is a little off topic, but does anyone happen to know why so many features seem to have been removed between the AX100/50 and the FTP? One that I would really find useful is the ability to directly assign midi channels to strings. You can do it on the Axon, but as far as I know, the FTP is limited to just channel 1 (for all strings), 1-6 or 11-16.

There's some other functionality that seems to have been left out as well but that's the one that sticks out. I love the FTP, but the midi channel limitations are frustrating, and seemingly unnecessary since it was there before.

admin

#5
Quote from: jodama on January 10, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
I actually have an AX50 (which I think uses the same algorithm as the AX100?), and it's pretty great. Definitely better than any of the Roland units I've tried (basically all of them).

I also have an FTP and it's interesting to see the similarities between the two software applications. This is a little off topic, but does anyone happen to know why so many features seem to have been removed between the AX100/50 and the FTP? One that I would really find useful is the ability to directly assign midi channels to strings. You can do it on the Axon, but as far as I know, the FTP is limited to just channel 1 (for all strings), 1-6 or 11-16.

There's some other functionality that seems to have been left out as well but that's the one that sticks out. I love the FTP, but the midi channel limitations are frustrating, and seemingly unnecessary since it was there before.

Cost control contraints ( less features = less bugs) and different cultural goals of Fishman Tripleplay team vs original Terratec Axon AX100/AX50 team

the AX50 was the last production model before Terratec folded

arkieboy

#6
The AX50 was a repackaging of the AX100 MK II mainly for USB->SoftSynth.  I bought the 100 because I was using rack synths at the time, but essentially they can be viewed as the same unit for most intents and purposes.  The practical differences are you can programme the 100 from the front panel, the rack form factor and the internal GM sound card.  I've never used the internal sounds in anger, but they do make for an easier debugging experience as you can isolate external midi woes from problems with your programming of the unit.


If you simply must have 13-pin guitar to midi then either unit will serve as well as the other in the studio.  If you want to take one on stage I'd go for the 100mkII.  They work well with piezo equipped guitars without any kind of retro-fitted filter and are significantly better than any Roland unit I've used for tracking - certainly leaving the VG99 well behind for pitch to midi.


I also think that the 100mkII is still a good option if you want to do a proper job live - you can use a FCB100 to control it, it has plenty of flexibility and I think RMC/Ghost equipped guitars (Godin/Brian Moore) or a luthier fitted GK are better than having a GK2/2a/3, or for that matter an external Triple Play, but the latter is much more marginal for reasons described below.


If I wasn't wedded to GK/VG would I buy one second hand?  I think I'd take a long hard look at Triple Play and Jam Origin before I did.  If your needs are basic, then Jam Origin is great - if your needs are more advanced then I think Triple Play represents better value for money.  Second hand GK2/2a/3 units frequently have issues with the pickup connector cable, so you'll want to budget for a new one if you're serious.  If the Axon unit costs much more than $100/£100/€100, then the whole thing is starting to look expensive when compared with a new tripleplay with slightly better tracking, better management software and actual support.


(ed: many to 'main' in the original post, also forgot you can programme the 100 from the front panel)
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

gearhound22

I read somewhere that if you use the axon ax 100 mk1 that you can use the guitar input as well for even better  pitch tracking!?!?!!?

Is this true???

kevorkian

Quote from: jodama on January 10, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
This is a little off topic, but does anyone happen to know why so many features seem to have been removed between the AX100/50 and the FTP? One that I would really find useful is the ability to directly assign midi channels to strings. You can do it on the Axon, but as far as I know, the FTP is limited to just channel 1 (for all strings), 1-6 or 11-16.

There's some other functionality that seems to have been left out as well but that's the one that sticks out. I love the FTP, but the midi channel limitations are frustrating, and seemingly unnecessary since it was there before.

You can assign individual strings to individual MIDI channels with the FTP using "Hardware Mode"

Additional Info here: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13653.0

jodama

#9
Thanks for the link but unless I'm misunderstanding the documentation there, I believe it confirms what I mentioned above, no?

You can have all strings output on channel 1, or you can have strings 1-6 on channels 1-6, or you can have strings 1-6 on channels 11-16. I don't see any other options?

(to be clear, it's entirely possible I am misunderstanding)

edit: also just to clarify, the functionality I'm missing from the FTP is the ability to assign all strings to, say, channel 8 or something. You can do that on the Axon, but not (as far as I can tell) on the FTP

kevorkian

Quote from: jodama on June 17, 2019, 09:40:47 AM
Thanks for the link but unless I'm misunderstanding the documentation there, I believe it confirms what I mentioned above, no?

You can have all strings output on channel 1, or you can have strings 1-6 on channels 1-6, or you can have strings 1-6 on channels 11-16. I don't see any other options?

(to be clear, it's entirely possible I am misunderstanding)

edit: also just to clarify, the functionality I'm missing from the FTP is the ability to assign all strings to, say, channel 8 or something. You can do that on the Axon, but not (as far as I can tell) on the FTP

You are correct. I must have misread the end of your post. You are limited to preset ranges of channels for the strings.
I use a BomeBox to remap them where required.

Dalai_llama

Quote from: admin on January 10, 2019, 02:12:30 PM
Biggest hurdle with above versions is AFAIK there is a lack of a Win/Mac GUI Editor

There was once an editor for the NGC77. It ran inside eMagic's SoundDiver. Not as powerful as one would have wanted it, but useful for creating patches and setting up some parameters. I think it was built by a member of the old Waynesworld midi guitar forum.