Fishman pickup as hexaphonic pickup

Started by stublito, May 19, 2018, 02:20:30 PM

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stublito

I bought an FTP to hack and was wondering if anyone had tried using the pickup hexaphonically? I'm guessing the sound quality is not fabulous, but I'm interested in opinions.

S

admin

#1
Quote from: stublito on May 19, 2018, 02:20:30 PM
I bought an FTP to hack and was wondering if anyone had tried using the pickup hexaphonically? I'm guessing the sound quality is not fabulous, but I'm interested in opinions.

S

Read this thread

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0


cags12

Quote from: stublito on May 19, 2018, 02:20:30 PM
I bought an FTP to hack and was wondering if anyone had tried using the pickup hexaphonically? I'm guessing the sound quality is not fabulous, but I'm interested in opinions.

S

What are you really trying to accomplish?

Virtual Madness

#3
Since we're discussing the Fishman hex pickup, can it be used INSTEAD of the GK-2a/GK-3 in a Roland internal setup? (I like the form factor better)

:)
The greatest power in the universe is imagination!

admin


Virtual Madness

#5
Quote from: admsustainiac on May 20, 2018, 11:45:49 AM
A few already have

Without any kind of modifications re connector and wire colors?...Does it put out the same signal as the GK-2A?
The only Fishman+Roland thread I was able to find was how to have one pickup feeding both the Roland + Fishman electronics.

Royce  :)
The greatest power in the universe is imagination!

ADP

#6
Does anyone have a source for the pickups? I've seen that Shadow, which is a German company, makes them, but I can't seem to find them anywhere in Europe.

Edit: I've just realised that I was thinking about the Antares pickup when I wrote that, so ignore this post. On the other hand, if anyone knows where to find the Shadow pickups used by Antares, feel free to comment.

ADP

I agree that the thread about using the Fishman pickup or the Roland pickup to feed both devices is overly complicated. It would be good if someone could provide a clear and definitive set of instructions.

cags12

Quote from: ADP on May 21, 2018, 04:27:47 AM
Does anyone have a source for the pickups? I've seen that Shadow, which is a German company, makes them, but I can't seem to find them anywhere in Europe.

Edit: I've just realized that I was thinking about the Antares pickup when I wrote that, so ignore this post. On the other hand, if anyone knows where to find the Shadow pickups used by Antares, feel free to comment.

I could potentially get a hold on one of these. Do you need LP or ST pickup width?

I am actually looking to get a hold of the Fishman OEM pickup for my project. The Shadow one is to wide to fit on my guitar.

admin

#9
Quote from:  alexmcginness
All the posts here in the Vforums explaining how to do this require a PHD in electronics to understand how accomplish this. Some have done it and tried to explain it but the explanations are like reading a foreign language. The easiest way is to mount a GK and the Fishman pickup side by side.

And use a screwdriver

Although after a while it gets weary responding to folks who must ask permission before they lift a tool or work an ohm meter for something rather basic.

Yes it will void the warranty  and not every custom gear modification by a user is posted to the web

admin

#10
Quote from: ADP on May 21, 2018, 04:27:47 AM
Does anyone have a source for the Fishman hex OEM  pickups?

How I got mine - and there were no instructions

https://reverb.com/item/2010674-fender-fishman-triple-play-stratocaster-body-midi-controller


but I do suggest read ALL the links prior posted

Here is the Fishman Tripleplay external pickup connector( revealed by disassembly of the Tripleplay controller with a screwdriver 


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.msg114113#msg114113

Fishman Tripleplay (FTP) shares the same Hex PU pinout as Roland Gk-3, and Yamaha G1D, Axon AIX-101


(may have to change to order of the strings ( by moving 6 connections on the white 8 pin connector to accommodate how you install the hex PU on your specific guitar)

Although I recall the physical pitch of the Fishman PU internal white 8 pin connector may be a different pitch vs the external GK-3 ( they use an 8 pin connector with same pin out and  either 2mm or 1.5 mm pitch

Where to order new mating micro connectors   
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.msg65555#msg65555

details here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0


1. Brown.........String 1 - high E
2. Red............String 2 - B
3. Orange.......String 3 - G
4. Yellow........String 4 - D
5. Green..........String 5 - A
6. Blue............String 6 - low E
7. Black...........Ground.
8. Ground Shield.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3365.0



https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.msg119476#msg119476

BladesToyShop

This would be an interesting combination, if there was a ready source of the internal modules, like there is for the Roland GK-3A.

admin

#12
Quote from: BladesToyShop on May 21, 2018, 11:48:52 AM
This would be an interesting combination, if there was a ready source of the internal modules, like there is for the Roland GK-3A.

and since there is not a ready source of the Fishman Tripleplay OEM internal modules to end users  - most have to resort to the used channel

used Fender  / Fishman Tripleplay Strat
(Out of production)
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StratTPBk--fender-fishman-tripleplay-stratocaster-hss-black

used Godin Session Tripleplay
(Out of production)
https://godinguitars.com/godinsession_tripleplay_38121_38138.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20170818232403/https://godinguitars.com/godinsession_tripleplay_38121_38138.html

GuitarBuilder

Gumbo makes custom adapter cables to use Fishman, Antares, and Roland hex pickups interchangeably.  Contact him directly.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

ADP

#14
Quote from: cags12 on May 21, 2018, 07:04:26 AM
I could potentially get a hold on one of these. Do you need LP or ST pickup width?

I am actually looking to get a hold of the Fishman OEM pickup for my project. The Shadow one is to wide to fit on my guitar.

I'd be interested in the LP width, which I presume is for a string spacing of 52.45mm or thereabouts. I have a couple of guitars I want to modify: a Strat type and a Les Paul type, but the Strat has the narrower 2 1/16" spacing so I think they're the same. If you can get hold of them, I'd be keen to buy a couple.

Vade

I tried to make a simpler explanation of what this mod requires in post #128 in the following thread...

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.msg164169#msg164169
____________________________________________________________________________
I'm hoping with a bit of study people will understand it. Read this post and ignore the linked thread for now, reread it while studying the pictures to visualize what the text is referring to when I say terms like "associated connector," compare the colors of the wires in the pictures to the colors of the wires in the diagrams, ask if anything remains unclear, and if it's still not clear to you then you might consider having a luthier do the mod for you. I'm not a luthier nor do I have any special expertise in electrical engineering or reading electrical diagrams. This was my first guitar mod (as any real luthier can tell from the pictures;) Buck up lads... this really isn't that hard if you just take the time to work the problem.

Post #128 copied and pasted from the linked thread.


On modding a Fishman Triple Play (FTP) Stratocaster to feed a Roland GK3

People are reporting that they find this thread confusing and it's even worse since Snapagogo broke all the links to the pics I posted. Instead of trying to replace all the broken links I'm just going to try to create a simple guide for anyone wishing to do this mod. Feel free to ask if anything remains unclear.

The FTP Stratocaster has an FTP hex pickup next to the bridge. The hex pickup cable is routed through the guitar to the FTP PCB board and is soldered directly to the board. There is an associated connector. If you plug in an eight wire jumper to the FTP boards associated connector then the other end of the jumper can be inserted into the GK3 board where the Roland hex pickup cable is normally inserted. Thus the FTP pickup feeds the FTP board and the jumper feeds the GK3.

FTP hex pickup --> FTP PCB board --> Gk3 hex input

Gumbo might be kind enough to make you the simple 8 wire connector if you cross his palms with silver and ply his palate with ample amounts of grog.

Here's what it sounds like...

https://soundcloud.com/vadie/ambient-steel

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Note and edit from original post #128;  the following dialogue and pictures are from an earlier post in the linked thread so keep that context in mind while reading.

1. A simple jumper cable from FTP PCB to GK-3 PCB tests positive. It works just as reported by Hired Gun earlier in this thread.
2. The control cavity from a Roland Ready Strat. My goal...
3. Pics 3-5 show work in progress.
4. Pic 6 shows that using a chisel is nowhere as neat as a router in these inexperienced hands. The location of cables is evident and I have a pencil inserted into the hole for the usb and headphone cables. Hopefully this pic will help anybody trying to work out a build plan for GK-3 placement.
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

ADP

Thanks for that, Vade. I now realise that I connected two very different topics in my earlier comment. Just to be clear, I wasn't commenting on adding a GK-3 to a Fender Fishman Triple Play guitar. I understood that particular subject and may well do that one day. For the moment though, I'm happy with my GC-1 and my Triple Play Strat.

I actually meant the discussion of how to use a hexaphonic Roland pickup with both a GK-3 and a Fishman Triple Play. That seems to be more complicated. For example, do we need capacitors and resistors or not? I think it would be good to have "a clear and definitive" answer to that particular question, but I think, without reading through everything that's been written on the subject again, that at the moment no one really knows for sure.

admin

#17
Quote from: ADP on May 22, 2018, 08:38:29 AM

I actually meant the discussion of how to use a hexaphonic Roland pickup with both a GK-3 and a Fishman Triple Play. That seems to be more complicated. For example, do we need capacitors and resistors or not? I think it would be good to have "a clear and definitive" answer to that particular question, but I think, without reading through everything that's been written on the subject again, that at the moment no one really knows for sure.


FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay


To understand the operation, study the Basic diagram below  - just add power for the GK-3 via Gk 13 pin connection

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0





(Left to Right) GK 13 pin input connector from GK-3 > six string signal attenuator trim pots > FTP Harness connector = 8 pin Tripleplay Hex PU input connector in pic here

Vade

#18
Quote@ "Thanks for that, Vade. I now realise that I connected two very different topics in my earlier comment. Just to be clear, I wasn't commenting on adding a GK-3 to a Fender Fishman Triple Play guitar. I understood that particular subject and may well do that one day. For the moment though, I'm happy with my GC-1 and my Triple Play Strat."

Morning ADP;

I realize that the mod I described isn't exactly what you were looking for but I do try to clear up confusion about using the FTP Hex to feed both FTP and GK3 when the issue comes up. Giving back to the community and all that don't ya know.

Best of luck in your quest!
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

cags12

For those who have experimented with the Fishman and GK3 pickups. Are there any noticeable difference in output levels?

I do know for a fact that the Shadow Hex pickup is waay hotter than the GK3 pickup. I am interested in knowing how the Fishman compares to the GK3 and if it is any closer to the Shadow one.

admin

#20
Quote from: cags12 on May 22, 2018, 10:05:58 AM
For those who have experimented with the Fishman and GK3 pickups. Are there any noticeable difference in output levels?

I do know for a fact that the Shadow Hex pickup is waay hotter than the GK3 pickup. I am interested in knowing how the Fishman compares to the GK3 and if it is any closer to the Shadow one.



I plan on compensating the various hex PU output sensitivity by modify the GK-KIT GT3 internal preamp board by swapping the Rin and Rfback resistors on each Op AMp gain stage for each string

read this thread

GK-3 vs GK-2A Output Gain Sensitivity
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=23050.0

cags12

Quote from: admsustainiac on May 22, 2018, 10:10:11 AM

I plan on compensating the various hex PU output sensitivity by modify the GK-KIT GT3 internal preamp board by swapping the Rin and Rfback resistors on each Op AMp gain stage for each string

read this thread

GK-3 vs GK-2A Output Gain Sensitivity
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=23050.0

That is interesting indeed but I actually meant about the RAW output of the HEX pickup.. Pre-buffered. This is important to find out so we know what pickups are comparable and are interchangeable.

This is what I know so far
Shadow PU > greater raw output than GK3 (by a mile - not comparable at all)
CycFi NU PU = Hotter than post buffered signal of GK3 kit.

Fishman? GK2A?

admin

#22
Quote from:  alexmcginness
this is what Im interested in as well. I want to use the GK3 pickup and hook it up to drive the fishman. Can it just be hooked up to the fishman board?


Get a screwdriver


Below is a stock Fender  / Fishman Tripleplay strat with the OEM Tripleplay PC board -
(with a Roland GK-3 hex Pickup 8 pin white connector placed near the 8 pin receptacle on the PC board 
Note the hex PU  connection via 8 pin white connector




Might have to swap the string order




Same white connector is here on the external Tripleplay board
( skip the PhD, and use  a screwdriver instead  )
Note the hex PU  connection via 8 pin white connector



Same white connector is here on the internal GK-KIT-GT-3  board ( lower right) 
Note the hex PU  connection via 8 pin white connector

ADP

Thanks very much, guys, for the time and effort you put into those posts. They're very helpful.

gumbo

#24
Just a note..

it is NOT EXACTLY the same white connector...
Yes, it has 8 pins

Yes, it has a 'pitch' (distance between the pins) of 1.5mm

NO, the locating/locking tabs are in different places  ...between the one used in the Triple Play & the one used in the GK3 PCB.

HOWEVER....
...as I said somewhere recently, Vade & I discovered that all that is needed to cross-pollinate these connectors, is some deft work with a scalpel blade to cut off the bits that are in the way..  (leaving your fingers intact)..

DO NOT attempt to force these connectors into place without making the above modification.....   :P   

...otherwise  :'( may result..

HTH
Peter



Oh, and one more (small) thing..
..after gently (!) levering up the small plastic 'prongs' on the connector with a jewelers' screwdriver so that you can remove the crimp pins from the connector to alter the order in which they are assembled (see admsustainiac post above) it is a GOOD IDEA to gently (!) press the prongs down again BEFORE you re-install the crimp pins in the order required..  that way the crimp pins are properly held in place when you press the connector back into its housing, and some or all the crimp pins DON'T fall out of the connector in the process of re-plugging .....   this can happen only marginally, and not be immediately apparent, but it can be enough to destroy the electrical connection on one or more of the conductors..

Further, if the crimp pins get partially dislodged from the connector in the re-plugging process, you may inadvertently bend one of the pins in the process...  ...trying to straighten it after that is a good recipe for destroying the crimp pin, calling for at least one bottle of fairly high-strength alcohol to get over the feeling of having been an absolute KLUTZ !   ::)

HTH even more....
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...