SY-300 - Input settings

Started by Brak(E)man, July 02, 2016, 06:14:18 AM

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szilard


Elantric

#26
I suspect when we share SY-300 patches  - the author of the preset should also indicate the guitar and pickup and pickup Control settings used.

Example: Use a Les Paul with Neck PU Vol on "10" and Tone set to "0"  played with fingers 

which WILL result in a SY-300 patch that sounds radically different when the same shared SY-300 patch is used by someone with a Strat on Bridge PU using a pick / plectrum.

Rather like many of our VG-99 Rock patches that were created with a Roland GC-1 Strat will sound very different or not as good  when used by a Godin Nylon string Multiac owner

Same scenario exists when using a  FuzzFace or Big Muff Pi !

The SY-300 owners  guitar type, string type, pickups type, pickup settings and users ability to string mute and play with dynamics (fingers vs picks)   -all contribute to the different results many experience when auditioning the same SY-300 patch 

Brak(E)man

Agree on all of that.

But the sound changes a lot with the same guitar , pu and playing

Adjusting the input setting up/ down , compressor etc makes a huge impact on
the sound that I can't explain and haven't figured out yet.

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Elantric

QuoteAdjusting the input setting up/ down , compressor etc makes a huge impact on
the sound that I can't explain and haven't figured out yet.

i can only add that occurs for every Boss SY-300 owner (its the nature of the SY-300 beast)

chrish

#29
Quote from: Elantric on July 18, 2016, 01:06:28 PM
I suspect when we share SY-300 patches  - the author of the preset should also indicate the guitar and pickup and pickup Control settings used.

Example: Use a Les Paul with Neck PU Vol on "10" and Tone set to "0"  played with fingers 

which WILL result in a SY-300 patch that sounds radically different when the same shared SY-300 patch is used by someone with a Strat on Bridge PU using a pick / plectrum.

Rather like many of our VG-99 Rock patches that were created with a Roland GC-1 Strat will sound very different or not as good  when used by a Godin Nylon string Multiac owner

Same scenario exists when using a  FuzzFace or Big Muff Pi !

The SY-300 owners  guitar type, string type, pickups type, pickup settings and users ability to string mute and play with dynamics (fingers vs picks)   -all contribute to the different results many experience when auditioning the same SY-300 patch
and global eq settings.   i've found that setting the input sensitivity adjustments are required for each patch. I just recieved the vg-99 and the first thing that i noticed was how clean the vg99 is compared to the sy300. I suspect that the sy-300 input sensitivity parameter is more like a mud setting, but with the sy, that mud will never get cleaned up completely. Guitar synths require hex pickups for separate string processing, just like the keys on a keyboard, for clean sound quality. Otherwise, it's basically just a fuzz box with filters and some effects. The moog slim phatty has an analog input that allows  for a guitar signal to use the filters and the envelopes. It also turns the guitar string signal, which functions as an osc, into an analog synth sound. That sound also is dependent upon signal strenght and type ie: whether or not the guitar is input with compession (added sustain) or an effect such as various amounts of distortion. The moog will also sound more muddy as more strings are played. Lets face, the sy needed a hex input along with the 1/4 input to control the mud factor. However, it is what it is. 

NoahB

Forgive me if this has been covered and I missed it but I can't find basic how to in setting the input sensitivity. What is ideal? The line across the top? Are we aiming for the notes played to bring the peak to that line or is that like a gain clip type line were everything should stay under it? I'm also confused on the input compressor. Wouldnt this over compress any signals on patches with compression added to them? All help much appreciated. - Noah
Jeff beck strat, GandL custom classic semi-hollow bluesboy tele,  mesa roadster, sy300 thru pair of peavey 15d powered pa speakers, big pedal board full of stuff.

Brak(E)man

My conclusion is that.
1 the input sensitivity is best set individually for each patch.
most of the time it's better to keep peak well below the line, some sounds are better when turned up above.
Be aware that effects a lot of the synth parameters that has to do with velocity.
Pitch , filters etc .

2 the compressor as well as bass and treble affects what happens later and if you're using guitar as input/output, you can over compress but I don't find that to be the case when using the OSC. In other words , it affects pure guitar tone and can be over compressed but I'm not experiencing that when "driving" the OSC.
Most of the time the compression is needed to get the sound "stable" and full ( for lack of a better word.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

NoahB

Quote from: Brak(E)man on October 04, 2022, 11:58:50 AMMy conclusion is that.
1 the input sensitivity is best set individually for each patch.
most of the time it's better to keep peak well below the line, some sounds are better when turned up above.
Be aware that effects a lot of the synth parameters that has to do with velocity.
Pitch , filters etc .

2 the compressor as well as bass and treble affects what happens later and if you're using guitar as input/output, you can over compress but I don't find that to be the case when using the OSC. In other words , it affects pure guitar tone and can be over compressed but I'm not experiencing that when "driving" the OSC.
Most of the time the compression is needed to get the sound "stable" and full ( for lack of a better word.
Thanks for the info. So if I read this correctly your saying that the compressor is fine to set globally if your using compressor effects on osc but to be careful with thru guitar signal?
Also the input sensitivity is a per patch setting? I didn't realize there were two options system and patch for input sensitivity. I will have to look at that but either way you set the level well below the line across the top? Thanks
Jeff beck strat, GandL custom classic semi-hollow bluesboy tele,  mesa roadster, sy300 thru pair of peavey 15d powered pa speakers, big pedal board full of stuff.

Brak(E)man

#33
Quote from: NoahB on October 04, 2022, 12:08:02 PMThanks for the info. So if I read this correctly your saying that the compressor is fine to set globally if your using compressor effects on osc but to be careful with thru guitar signal?
Also the input sensitivity is a per patch setting? I didn't realize there were two options system and patch for input sensitivity. I will have to look at that but either way you set the level well below the line across the top? Thanks
The compressor is fine with the synth sounds imo they don't affect the sound in a bad way but the opposite , depending on the sound and what you're feeding into the SY , it's very dependent on the guitars , strings etc etc which I guess why the patch exchange has been a bit neglected . The guitar however whether you're going thru in SY or to an external unit might compress the signal too much. I know some avoided that by splitting the signal before the input and using input for synths only and the return for normal guitar sound input.

You can set the input block globally or per patch.
P 11 parameters guide.
I usually set my input high , not necessarily below the line .... ,
but it's a matter of taste I guess.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch