Boss SY-1000 -Tips &Tricks

Started by Bill Ruppert, February 28, 2020, 07:43:08 PM

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Bill Ruppert

Quote from: thebrushwithin on February 28, 2020, 03:45:51 PM
Bill Ruppert's comments about getting what he needs out of them is very encouraging, but as a Kemper user for the last 7 yrs., so far, these amps are nowhere near what I get from my Kemper, with no tweaking. Reverbs and delays are pretty average, IMO, too. I'll just keep trying!
Hi Brush
Here is what Ihave found and it works great!.
Oddly its just how the VG-99 was but the end results are as good as anything out there today.
For clean stuff its great right from the box. The Fender is so good you can almost smell the hot vinyl.
My fav is "Natural" amp with some compression. The Boss comp is close to the Kemper comp.
It takes EQing but you have a TON of that in the box. Staggering amount of EQ options are available.

For mild to hard distortion I like the clean amp (like above) but hit with a OD or Dist block in front of it. The Natural OD is great, as well as the A-Dist effect. I can nail a lot of the Kemper stuff that way.

You can use just the amp blocks for distortion but they are a little off for me.
That said, many of the real amps I play are off for me.
Keep diggin!

admin

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/30252330/

randombastage wrote>


I have to chime in again to eat my words (except the I-hate-13-pin-GK-cable part)
I tried the Mooer Radar for Ir's and, yes it was great, but JiveTurkey's comments about not finding fault with the on board cabs made me want to use them instead of having to use a pedal just for IR's.
So I started A/B testing the differences and quickly found that I had misunderstood the parameter 'Direct Level' in the Amp block in the Normal channel. I was thinking it was a path for the actual guitar pickups to pass through so I was keeping it at zero for all my SY1000 amp simulations....

this plus just ignoring the visual settings and using my ears regardless of where the 'knobs' ended up improved the amp simulations for me by a large margin.
I still am thankful for the movable insert block because plugging an amp modeler in that and leaving the Normal channel's amp/cab sim off is still a great way to get a lot more variety and using a modeler that you already have mastered makes it quick and easy to add all your favorite amp sounds you already have created. However I now get excellent amp simulation right from the SY1000 and probably won't bother inserting external modelers very often if at all.

But here is where I really was not experiencing the SY1000 the way I should have. I loaded the Crystal Synth preset, moved the Reverb and Compressor from the 'common' signal path downstream of the Balancer3 where they were in line right after the Master Delay and moved them to the path where Instruments 1,2 and 3 come together on one path just after Balancer2. This kept the 'Guitar' on the Normal channel out of the reverb and compressor.
Then, in manual mode where you get a foot switch to toggle each instrument independently, I blended in a clean Tweed Deluxe and gave it a Ratt pedal for when I needed the dirt. Then started exploring that Crystals Synth preset blended with some clean guitar...one instrument at a time then bringing in two and all three....amazing inspiration.

Two hours later I left that alternate universe and I'm here to say you can have my SY1000, after you can pry it from my cold dead hands!

This is the guitar synth I was hoping the VG8 was...and then the VG88...and then the VG99...and then the GRxx....etc. etc. They finally got it right

Frank

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on February 28, 2020, 07:43:08 PM
Hi Brush
Here is what Ihave found and it works great!.
Oddly its just how the VG-99 was but the end results are as good as anything out there today.
For clean stuff its great right from the box. The Fender is so good you can almost smell the hot vinyl.
My fav is "Natural" amp with some compression. The Boss comp is close to the Kemper comp.
It takes EQing but you have a TON of that in the box. Staggering amount of EQ options are available.

For mild to hard distortion I like the clean amp (like above) but hit with a OD or Dist block in front of it. The Natural OD is great, as well as the A-Dist effect. I can nail a lot of the Kemper stuff that way.

You can use just the amp blocks for distortion but they are a little off for me.
That said, many of the real amps I play are off for me.
Keep diggin!
Interesting: When I was using the GT-100 (not 1000), that is exactly what I found worked best too.

I think the A-Dist is very powerful, I even owned the stomp box version at one point.

The X-OD also works well in this context.

The Natural Overdrive pedal sounds very similar to the Nobels ODR-1 in my opinion, I wonder if it's based on that?

drjoness2001

I posted this video on combining the normal guitar outputs with a modeled guitar sounds to create a really wide stereo guitar sound, like double tracking. I used the 'natural' amp:


drjoness2001

One more! This video goes into more detail on adding the normal guitar signal, to mix with a synth sound:



Hope this is helpful!

jozart

I'm looking for the best place to post this treasure trove:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/effects-all-you-need-know-and-little-bit-more

The SY-1000 has everything necessary to apply many if not most of the tricks described in the article: filters, delays, synths, reverbs, distortions, compressors, pitch shifters, amp modelers, sequencers, hamonizers

stub

Very cool! Thanks for sharing that!

stub

That article ("Effects: All You Need to Know"-- Sound on Sound) makes a distinction between Effects and Processors. It says that Effects are those that have a wet/dry mix feature, whereas Processors change the signal without mixing in dry signal. That is the first time I've heard that distinction. Is that a pretty widespread understanding of those terms?

The terms I've heard to refer to that distinction is "send effects" (chorus, flange, reverb) vs "insert effects" (compression, gate, EQ)

Furthermore, I've heard and used the term "effect" to apply to all signal processing (all types, analog & digital). I've heard and used "processor" to refer to digital effects-- especially in the context of DSP, and where effects are in plugins or modules. But it also makes perfect sense to refer to an analog device as a processor.

I do a fair amount of reading on music tech so it surprised me to hear that distinction. It does make sense, but I don't know how widely that is accepted. Anyone else have a thought on it?


Maudibe

Hi Stub, many years with a studio and subsequent audio prod / education etc.

Yes, processors are generally considered compressors, limiters and gates, exciters and eq. In other words, 'insert' effects.

Effects are generally considered as delay, reverb, chorus, flange etc. and used as 'send' effects.

There is perhaps a naming system on each side of the pond.

But that just about covers it.

Of course, there are times when you can run a compressor, for example, as a parallel / send effect, and times when you want to run a delay as an insert effect. So it is a bit of a generalisation, though a good rule of thumb.

Rules, broken. Nice :)

admin

Today most prefer to All in One units as "Processors

stub

Quote from: Maudibe on June 12, 2020, 11:54:05 AM
There is perhaps a naming system on each side of the pond.

Which side of the pond are you on?


Maudibe

I'm now resident in the middle of the pond  ;D

Azores.

But, from the UK.

Re: Admin's comment ... yea, what's in a name? But seriously, an all in one unit is by definition an 'effect processor' as it likely does both effects and processing. LOL. It's all semantics I guess. The SOS article nails it though, in European terms.

fokof

Quote from: admin on June 12, 2020, 11:58:46 AM
Today most prefer to All in One units as "Processors

If I look at some Gtr players floorboard and all the dancing they do , individual FX (pedals) still hold the upper level of love.
In my experience and parts of the world anyways....

:)

stub

Yea, I think "processor" has several meanings. One sense is as a general signal processor (as in DSP, digital signal processor)- and in a sense, our "effect processors" are just a variation of that. Another sense is as relates to CPU as in digital processing of a more broad sense. And as described in the above article.

In one sense, we could say that "effects" are a type of processor. In another sense, we can say that "processor" equals insert effect. It's a little circular.

Hippolytus126

#14
Stereo effects return fixed:

A popular complaint on this page is the absence of a stereo return in the effects loop; cable mono going out, stereo coming back in, which doesn't work as there is only a ts mono return jack. I believe I've found a way to have a stereo return for the effects chain. Someone might have beaten me to this here already, but here it goes. With a gk cable as your guitar signal in, choose your instrument, ir several in the available slots. Then right after that insert a block of fx send. If you have an external effects chain of boutique pedals, send a mono signal to that effects chain using the send jack on sy 1000. The final pedal in the external chain should have a ts left channel and a ts right channel out. The left ts goes into the return jack, the right ts goes in the normal "guitar in" jack of the sy". Then right after the fx send/return block you put a volume pedal control block, to control the incoming volume of the left channel, and pan the signal 100% left. The same goes for the normal guitar input signal, which carries the right channel of you external guitar chain. Put a volume pedal block after that and pan 100% right. Voila you have imported you external stereo chain into the sy1000. The key is to use the volune pedal blocks as volume attenuators or boosters, in order to have an equal level of the left and right channel. Do this by feel to get your levels equal and you should be good.

*Note you will lose your dry normal guitar signal this way, and you're forced to use modelled guitars

*Edit (see image 1): I made a mistake in my explanation of the panning. After the fx return, and after the normal input block, you should edit the pan direction on the branch points after each input (fx return, normal input), then after those insert a volume pedal block to either attenuate or boost the signal to balance the stereo image. See attached picture.

*edit 2 (see image 2): Note with this method you could also opt to place the effects return send right after inst1 block and pan the left return channel of the external fx loop at the "balance 1" point, and have the inst 2 an 3 not affected by the send out. They can stay panned in the middle or however you want, and not go to an external fx loop.So you have a wide stereo external chain coming in based on the feed of instrument 1, which can run parralell to the other 2 inst slots that have not gone through an external effects loop. The right channel return from the normal input should stay as explained before and that way it will not affect inst 2 & 3, as the signal runs parallell to inst 2+3

stub

If you're editing on the unit, and you plan to create sets by using the WRITE/INSERT function, be aware that every time you use this insert function you erase the last user preset (50-4). Basically it gets pushed into non-existence as all other patches above your insert are stepped up by 1. So it may be a good idea to put all your disposable patches (or empty patches) in those last few user banks banks.

stub

CREATING TEMPLATES

I've been creating these kind of generic starting point templates for various kinds of tones. Acoustic clean, Electric Clean, Electric Lead, Crunch, Hybrid Inst, Big Wash, etc.

The main areas for planning are: Inst Types, Amp & Dist types, FX types, FX order & paths, Reverb/Delay, Ctr/Assign/Switch/Exp, Variations, and Patch naming/management.

The SY-1000 has so many useful little behind the scenes settings. The challenge has been to keep all these capabilities in mind when I imagine myself performing, tracking, improvising, experimenting, etc. And think about how I want that workflow to go. It really requires creative imagination-- blended with technical practicality.

As I learn new things (or understand things more clearly) I'm making changes to my templates (in order to save steps later when creating new patches).

There's quite a bit to understand, and I've got a few other pieces of equipment that require "big understanding" to make good use of them. My "free disk space" is diminishing.






gumtown

Has anyone made use of the VARIATIONS yet?
I used a few in the amp section to save my "usual setup", as far as I can see, they can't be shared though unless you make a complete "Variations backup".

Rather than "Variations" for each section, I would think Variations template patches would be more useful, where the template can be shared and the section variations extracted from that.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

fokof

#18
I often use the " re-synth" USB audio to tweak presets , record stuff ,  play it back to tweak on the SY .


My tip is with the DAW , instead of creating 3 stereo track and assigning them to the right SY I/O each time you do it , just create a surround 5.1 (6) channel track. Assign I/O in SY> 3/4/5/6/7/8 and bingo.

If you want to create different tracks ,keep them , edit ,  record different track etc.... just crate a new 5.1 surround track , that's it. It should assign it's I/O automatically to the right ones.

fokof

#19
I use Digital Performer.


EDIT : and you can also choose 7.1 surround so you'll have from the SY: L-R-1-2-3-4-5-6



musical_edmond

Quote from: gumtown on January 29, 2021, 03:55:57 PMHas anyone made use of the VARIATIONS yet?

I agree. Variations seem to work like a sub-patch memory save. They are useful but my preference would be to have the saved variations shared dynamically across patches. So when you alter settings on your saved/preferred amp (presumably we all do frequently), the new settings would be instantly updated across any patches using that variation. So they came close but don't appear to have my preferred method. Currently I go into each patch, reload the saved variation and resave the patch. Do I have that right? A lesser but workable alternative would be to add a variation option prompting "Update all patches which use this variation? (Y/N)".

arkieboy

I've discovered a neat feature of curnum that means you can get indication of the status of parameters assigned to an external footswitch.

When you make an assign or a control function mapping to curnum, curnum also tracks the status of that parameter; if you then set the control LED colour to change the colour of curnum, then its colour will indicate the status of that parameter.

Example: set control function of curnum to 'amp solo', set the control LED colour to 'auto purple', then set a complex assign to an external footswitch that engages amp solo, turns a distortion pedal before the amp on, switches off the reverb and switches on the delay.  When you engage your external footswitch, lo-and-behold the selected patch LED changes colour to purple reminding you that you have selected your lead tone!!

Congratulations!

I really try to minimise my use of the switches on the SY, and keep it in as good condition as possible.  So I've always used an external FS-6 for stuff like channel switching and tap tempo.  This means there's no more 'I can't quite hear myself as well as I'd like, what sound am I making?' moments again.
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

chrish

Don't know if this has been posted already.

To get some rhythmic variation using the slicer fx block. Go to Pattern fx block, click on that block button which takes you to the Assign matrix page. It should say FX3 (1-3):SL Pattern as the target.

Set min to P1 (or choose another pattern). Set max to P3 (or other). Set source to wave pedal. Set mode to moment.

The slicer pattern will now move between the min and max selected patterns.

Bill Ruppert

Quote from: chrish on March 22, 2024, 11:50:02 AMDon't know if this has been posted already.

To get some rhythmic variation using the slicer fx block. Go to Pattern fx block, click on that block button which takes you to the Assign matrix page. It should say FX3 (1-3):SL Pattern as the target.

Set min to P1 (or choose another pattern). Set max to P3 (or other). Set source to wave pedal. Set mode to moment.

The slicer pattern will now move between the min and max selected patterns.
Cool idea, I have to try that.
thank you.

fokof