FTP, Macbook Pro M1, Lot of Crashes :(

Started by PierM, February 05, 2023, 03:44:42 AM

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PierM

Hi guys. This is my first post here. Registered exactly to report this and hopefully find some help;

Couple months ago I grabbed a Macbook Pro M1, 16GB Ram, plenty of juice.

Tripleplay app does crash a lot, especially when I switch to a different preset, or just after setting up a plugin in a track.

Also, when it doesn't crash, it does start disconnecting/reconnecting in a continous loop that I manage to resolve only turning TP off and on.

I do have a FTP and also a FC1, which doesn't seem a problem, since I get same issues if I do plug the dongle directly to the Mac.

Important to say that I had the same disconnection issues on my previous laptop (but no crash there), windows 11, so I'm starting to believe this is a defective FTP.

Another little oddity is that, on the Tripleplay application, I can only read the FTP serial number if I run it in Hardware Mode.

No crash if I run the FTP into a DAW track, but still getting the glitchy disconnection issues.

Any idea? (Already tried to reset the unit, and didn't solve). Everything is up to date to latest firmware and software versions.

Thanks in advance,

Pier

FishmanSoftware

I'm pretty sure that there is no way to plug a TriplePlay dongle directly into a Macbook Pro M1, which means you are using some sort of USB C adapter or hub, correct?

Most of those adapters/hubs put out a lot of radio interference, which can mess with TriplePlay communication reliability.

Maybe you are already doing this, but I use the Apple "USB-C to USB Adapter" which goes for $19.00; this adapter creates less radio interference than most. Maybe you could comment on which adapter/hub you are using if any?

Another source of possible interference is any 2.4GHz transmitter, such as WiFi, Bluetooth, many guitar wireless systems, your phone, etc. If you live in the city and/or an apartment building there can be many sources of radio interference.

One easy thing to try is to use a "USB extension cable" to get the dongle far from the computer (and other potential sources of interference), and very close to the wireless transmitter (maybe test with it physically touching). If this works, then it is almost certainly related to radio interference. We developed the wired TriplePlay version as a solution for difficult situations.

Having said all of that, it could turn out to be a defective FTP unit, but not likely. Contact Fishman Support and they should be able to advise you.

PierM

#2
The FTP dongle is being installed on a Fishman FC1 foot controller, and the FC1 goes into Mac just using a USB A to C adapter.

I dont think this can be a problem honestly as it's just a little converter that ports data from USB A to C shape.

I do have indeed lot of wifi around, so I will for sure be testing the unit in a different environment to see if something change. The extension cable I believe could be itself a source of interference or data degradation, so probably testing in a different place would give me more reliable results. (im saying that because, for example, my HX Stomp does randomly drop the USB connection when using a USB extension cable).

Thanks for now.

Pier




PierM

This is the adapter (never had any issues with these and other devices).



FishmanSoftware

Thanks for the additional info. Please note that the adapter you show in the photo is actually an active device, and some of them have poor shielding, and they can interfere with 2.4 GHz wireless radios. I have seen ads for some of these type of adapters where they brag about how their product is "properly shielded". I have not yet located the one that you are using, but it could very well be noisy. What brand is it?

PierM

Quote from: FishmanSoftware on February 06, 2023, 02:23:04 PMThanks for the additional info. Please note that the adapter you show in the photo is actually an active device, and some of them have poor shielding, and they can interfere with 2.4 GHz wireless radios. I have seen ads for some of these type of adapters where they brag about how their product is "properly shielded". I have not yet located the one that you are using, but it could very well be noisy. What brand is it?

I have no idea of the brand, just grabbed on amazon a while ago.

But Im not plugging the dongle there, just the FC1 USB cable. How can this little thing interfere with the FC1/Dongle sitting on the floor? (at least 4 or 5 feets away from the laptop).

Also, I was getting the same disconnection even on my old windows laptop, without the adapters. Anyway, there are micro USB to USB C cables that I could use, so this is a variable easy to remove from the equation. I will order one.

The random crashes are only on that new Macbook tho, plus the disconnections. (I do use this FTP since 2017 and things started getting worse last year).

Thanks again.

FishmanSoftware

I wonder if you have tried re-pairing the wireless controller and the dongle? When you pair it, it will choose the channel with the least interference (for the current orientation etc.), which gives you the best chance for reliable communication.
I suspect that the crashing is related to the frequent wireless disconnects, so if you can get the communication to work in a stable fashion, then likely the crashing will stop.
I agree that it would be helpful to try in a different RF environment, but...if you have a USB extension cable, then I would recommend that you run a quick test with the FC-1 taken out of the system (just to simplify the test), the wireless dongle connected to the extension cable, and then tape the dongle to your guitar right next to the controller. Now re-pair the system. Is it working reliably, or is it still cutting out and/or crashing? Your results might help me to better diagnose what is going wrong.

PierM

Ok thanks!

I'll be doing all these procedures and report back.

Ty.

PierM

Ok so, did the above tests and I have a good and a bad news;

Good news is that reducing high frequency EMIs (less Wifi/BT) and re-pairing dongle with FTP, seems reducing/resolving the disconnection glitch. This means I will have to find a way to shut down all my WiFi stuff when playing in the studio room. It's curious as I remember I already tried that same test, reading this forum from people with similar disconnection problems, but at that time didn't change much (but at that time I didn't do the fishman dongle re-pairing).

Bad news is the crash to desktop are still there, always when switching between non factory patches. Which would also explain why I don't have these crashes when using the FTP app as plugin in Ableton Live, since there I only use my very first preset, saved in the factory patches.

As soon as I move, edit or save within the extra patches (that at the moment are being used by synthmaster), the app does instantly crash. Could be related to some broken library? Synthmaster is the offender?

I could provide the crash report if needed.

Thanks for the assistance, much appreciated!


PierM

Following a bit of logic, I did installed the lastest Synthmaster available from official site as it looked really like was Synthmaster crashing the FTP application.

Crash after the update are gone, or at least couldn't get the app crashing after update.

I believe the stock (and old) OEM version that it's being downloaded and installed from the Fishman site, isn't ideal for M1 CPUs.

I will keep testing, but looks like we are on the right path. :)

shawnb

Something else to try...  This is very old news, but it might just help with any tricky VSTs...  This is how I always use the FTP - the "two track" method.  This always seems to present a much lighter load on your DAW, especially if you have a bunch of FTP tracks...

Quote from: shawnb on January 30, 2014, 01:24:21 PMI suggest using the "two track" method, described elsewhere here.  It's much simpler and has a lot of benefits over attempting to run the FTP VST as a synth host within your DAW.  (This technique was introduced to us by the FTP app's developer in the early days of the FTP app.)

In the "Two track" Technique, your first track runs the FTP VST.  You do NOT use it to host a VSTi/synth - you set it up to run a "Hardware Synth" patch.  This instance of the FTP app is used to set the FTP parameters as desired. 

The second track is a normal synth track within your DAW, as if you were using a keyboard.  Only instead of setting the synth's MIDI input to be from your keyboard, set it to use the Fishman TriplePlay MIDI port. 

Benefits are:
  -  It's simpler
  -  Your DAW deals with any 32/64 bit conversion - no complexity or JBridge
  -  Any proprietary synths in your DAW will work (SONAR users take note...)
  -  As in this example, this also bypasses some UI issues
  -  Tempo management is controlled by your DAW (e.g., to coordinate delays, FX tails, etc); this is a current limitation of the FTP app, it does not pass MIDI clock to the hosted synth

As you can see there are a number of benefits to using this method. 

The only drawback I can find to the "two track" method is that if you have multiple synths and want different FTP settings for each, you need to setup multiple 'Hardware Synth' configs and choose the right one before using/recording the different instruments.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

PierM

Works better for my needs to use a track for each string (this way I can add MIDI filter, transpose, key etc per string), a single track for the FTP plugin (controlling the overall FTP setup), a track for the VST/UA (receiving from the six tracks), and a last one for the guitar signal coming from the audio interface, out of the FC1.

On the M1 pro this setup is extremely light, even on intensive plugins like NOVUM which I use a lot these days.

Similar concept as the two track method, a bit more deep for extra manipulation per string.


FishmanSoftware

Quote from: PierM on February 07, 2023, 09:41:34 AMFollowing a bit of logic, I did installed the lastest Synthmaster available from official site as it looked really like was Synthmaster crashing the FTP application.

Crash after the update are gone, or at least couldn't get the app crashing after update.

I believe the stock (and old) OEM version that it's being downloaded and installed from the Fishman site, isn't ideal for M1 CPUs.

I will keep testing, but looks like we are on the right path. :)
Thanks for the detailed feedback. We will look into this report. And I'm happy that it is starting to work more reliably.

PierM

Hello,

just wanted to confirm that since the Synthmaster update, the crash issue is completely gone. FTP works very stable and reliable.

Still getting few disconnections, but now I know that when happens I either need to re-pair the dongle, or just shut down couple of WiFi device in the studio.

Thanks for the great support.

o/