USB Class Compliant MIDI Cables for Mobile devices

Started by Elantric, April 20, 2013, 10:58:31 AM

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Toby Krebs

#25
Thanks jezebabe. If I could edit even in a limited way/switch patches on the GR55 and have PDFs of charts and lyrics on a music stand all from an Android tablet I could make my live rig a lot more efficient. I have been working with a bass player who uses an I-Pad a lot lately and all he is doing is using it for charts and lyrics. He is still asking me what keys the tunes are in(he is new to our band) and playing the wrong changes sometimes because he is just importing crappy charts from various websites into setlist maker. I can get a brand new Samsung Android tablet for 189 dollars from Costco or spend 329 on an I-Pad with no usb port. Getting close to a decision and finding all this very helpful!

Elantric

#26
Make a list of the apps you want to run  - with separate columns for Android apps in the Google Playstore
https://play.google.com/store?hl=en

and Apple Ipad iTunes Store.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/genre/ios/id36?mt=8

my 2 cents  - I accomplish 1000% more music related tasks with my iPad vs any Android Tablet, mostly due to the inherent much lower audio/MIDI latency of IOS operating system on iPad.

Jeremy Hall

Elantric is right... I have looked long and hard for an Android App that does what Setlist Maker (IOS) does and although some come close (e.g. Stage Assistant) I haven't found any that will send program change messages when you select a song. I am therefore tempted to use Setlist Maker (1.99 gbp) on my iPod Touch which should also work with my USB MIDI i/f with a Apple CCK.
FWIW I haven't noticed any latency on my Android setup but I probably wouldn't in the way I am using it. 

Elantric

#28
Quoteon my iPod Touch which should also work with my USB MIDI i/f with a Apple CCK.


Older iPod Touchs and iPhones do not support the Apple CCK (Camera Connection Kit)
The Apple Lighting USB Camera Adapter (which implements a USB Host Port) "might"  work ONLY with the very latest "Late 2013 Apple Ipod Touch", or iPhone 5,5C  running IOS7. No reports yet from iPhone 5C - which has the new 64bit A7 CPU - there are of some compatibility issues with iPhone 5C

http://news.yahoo.com/iphone-5s-apps-crash-twice-often-iphone-5-134051340.html


But this function is a moving target - Apple seems to be breaking this USB Host connection path with latest IOS updates 

Earlier models of iPod touch will require a direct compatible IOS hardware MIDI interface - like iRig MIDI or iConnectMIDI box 


Jeremy Hall

#29
Thanks for the info Elantric. I have a 2013 iPod Touch with lightning connector running IOS 7 so I guess the Lightning USB Camera connector should/might work.

I was also able to get rtpMIDI (on my PC) to connect via wifi to my iPod Touch running the MIDI designer demo and then send program changes to the GR55 (using rtpMIDI to reroute to the GR55), so I am hoping this will also work with SLM.

Elantric

#30
QuoteThanks for the info Elantric. I have a 2013 iPod Touch with lightning connector running IOS 7 so I guess the Lightning USB Camera connector should work.

Its moving target

A few weeks ago when you click here to view the Apple Lighting USB Camera Adapter - you would also see the iPhone5 listed as "compatible"
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=3a




But they recently updated this and removed the iphone5   


So its anyone's guess if this continues to work with iPhone / ipod Touch after next round of IOS updates 

EDIT: Nov 2013
Confirmed when running IOS7 that iPhone 4S, 5, 5S, 5C, iPod Touch 5th Generation all work with Apple USB Camera adapters to support USB  MIDI /Audio Class Compliant interfaces.

Elantric

#31
QuoteFWIW I haven't noticed any latency on my Android setup but I probably wouldn't in the way I am using it. 

Call me when they port Jamup Pro XT (or any equivalent RealTime Guitar Amp App)  to Android.
Google has  placed real time audio/MIDI processing as a Lower priority, while they focus on delivering ads instead.



Closest I know of is USB Effects Android

Lots of potential  - but after trying for 30 seconds I knew its best to consider it in the "needs more work" category ( I get over 150ms latency using this with my Galaxy Note2 with Android 4.1.2)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.usbeffects&hl=en

But this Android app holds much promise and is getting close
Audio Evolution Mobile 2.0 for Android


Same guy created this app too


and nothing beats this app for Android Beatmaking
FL Studio Mobile (Android)

Toby Krebs

#32
After watching 2 bass players on the gig with me struggle with incorrect keys and incorrect changes they have imported into their I-Pads I have decided to save my money and keep doing what I am doing.I have a little mic. stand mounted music stand with my patches listed on it on a piece of paper in a sheet protector. I have spent the last 3 months barking changes at both of these guys who use I-Pads. No fun during a solo or when singing a tune. Most chord data bases have the wrong info on the charts I guess and although you can change a key easily I just don't want to spend the time making corrections to or making my own charts and loading them into an I-Pad. I would just end up doing what I am already doing which is dealing with sheets of paper that takes up time. I also notice both of these bass players taking a lot of time to get the chart up on the I-Pad and then they have trouble seeing it. Funny except when a club owner is hollering at you to "blanking" play some music! Is it break time? Of course the drummer/bandleaders 20 minute breaks don't help either. Some things never change no matter how much technology we try to throw at it.

admin

#33
New for iOS7: use the Apple Camera Connection Kit or Lighting USB Camera Connection adapter to attach a compatible USB MIDI Interface or Keyboard to Iphone!


Boss4Life

#35
Hello, I have been reading and reading everything on this forum for a few weeks now. The last week for a few hours a day, I have been reading everything about MIDI until I am numb.....I am having trouble thinking straight and I am on a deadline.....I would like to play on stage with the iPad next week. Here is what I want to achieve.

I have an iPad 2
I downloaded Setlist Maker and downloaded the ability to send MIDI
I just received my CCK
and I will receive my USB/MIDI cable in two days
I also downloaded the Wrench Monitor app.

I loaded all my songs and made a show list on the Setlist Maker
Now I need to know a few things please.....

My ONLY goal (for now) is to change patches on my GR-55 from my iPad 2 & Setlist Maker. I have tried and tried to understand how MIDI works and I just stay confused. I am sorry that I probably appear dense to everyone on here and I'm sure I will have an eureka moment once someone explains this to me.

So for instance....If I press one of my songs on Setlist Maker and I want it to change to Bank 1, Patch 1......What do I enter in the fields, MSB, LSB and PROGRAM? 

...And lastly, do I need to change or activate anything on my Gr-55 to accept these commands?

Once again sorry for "not getting it" and
Thanks,
Chris



Elantric

#36
All your GR-55 patch change questions are answered in the existing Setlistmaker thread here

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9090.msg65501#msg65501

Specifically this post spells it out - with instructions courtesy of member "Litesnsirens"
Control GR-55 using Setlistmaker on iPad
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9090.msg66757#msg66757

cooltouch

#37
As for USB to MIDI, this might be a little old-school for you guys, but from what I hear, this same device has been re-released because of the demand for these old ones.

I have two, bought 'em about 12 years ago, I reckon. They weren't especially cheap, either, as I recall:



Cute little buggers, ain't they?  And they work great, too.
Best,
Michael

cooltouch

#38
Elantric, I just read your comments regarding apps for Android and I read where you were having latency issues with one of the apps?  How about the others, were there latency issues with them?

About a year ago, when I bought my plain old iRig to use with my iPod 4g, I was wondering why a similar product was not available for Android. And, far as I know, it still isn't. But I asked the folks at IK Multimedia about it and they told me that the problem with the Android OS is there are latency problems they run into that prevents them from doing the same thing they do with the iOS, which apparently is designed to be much more transparent musically. I've been hoping that, as the Android OS matures, this problem will be fixed. It appears that some progress has been made. The number of decent musical apps available for Andriod that I've come across so far are light years better than what I was finding a year ago.  But it would appear that Android is still not able to achieve the same results that the iOS does.

Too bad, cuz I recently upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy S4, and I'd like to put it through its paces.

The FL Studio and Audio Evolution apps seem interesting and maybe even useful. But I wonder how the latency is with them. The FL Studio has some lag that was demonstrated. In the second video the guy mentions that the AE folks had developed a driver or something for their software to deal with latency issues since Andriod had no such capability. Hmmm . . .  that is telling, if true. I wish the Android coders would get off their butts and deal with this problem. Heh, probably a giant-sized problem that would obsolesce all current Android products, if implemented. Or some such.
Best,
Michael

Elantric

#39
For me today (Nov 2013) Android continues to have tremendous audio delay lag that kills all my enthusiasm for real time music work.
(details here)
http://source.android.com/devices/latency_design.html

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/05/why-mobile-low-latency-is-hard-explained-by-google-galaxy-nexus-still-android-of-choice/

It takes more than 100 milliseconds response time between clicking a key and hearing a sound (best average),  and often more like 250 milliseconds.
This is with my Galaxy Note II running Android 4.1.2

So My Android Music app list remains the current "state of the art" (click here)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.msg69620#msg69620


Meanwhile  IOS (iPhone/iPad)  virtual synths respond under 5 milliseconds, and Bias  / Jamup Pro XT Tube amp simulator has the same real time audio latency as my Kemper (about 8-10 milliseconds), after "ultra low latency mode" is enabled in Jamup Pro XT.

This is because Apple wisely incorporated "Core Audio" into IOS.
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/CoreAudioOverview/Introduction/Introduction.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Audio

and explains why i just bought an iPad Air 128GB (zero regrets!) 

and the day a 5" display iphone6 ships in 2014 is the day I dump my Galaxy NoteII and go back to Iphone.

Apple IOS infrastructure now has 1000's of real tools that actually work for all musicians   - instead of the toys found on other mobile operating systems.

(FWIW - I've been using Mobile MIDI apps since 1998 on my Palm Pilot,


and Griff on Compaq iPaq (Pocket PC)
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may03/articles/pocketpc.asp

whippinpost91850

Elanic, I can honestly say I've never met anyone that keeps on top this tech like you. 8)

Elantric

#41
explains my favorite TV show

whippinpost91850


Boss4Life

#43
Still having trouble with this.

I connected my CCK to my iPad 2 then my USB cable to MIDI in on my GR-55. I went into my SYSTEM settings, then USB/MIDI and then the RX PC MAP TAB and have the BANK at 0 and PC :1 at [USER] 01:1 (Patch One), PC :2 at [USER] 01:2 (Patch Two), and PC ;3 at [USER] 01:3 (Patch Three).

Then inside Set List Maker I opened the MIDI preset assigned to a song and in the values I entered MSB 0, LSB (I left blank) and PROGRAM 1 ....

I have read everything 10 times over.....Instead of telling me to read something again, can someone please just tell me what THEY put in their MSB, LSB, PROGRAM slots?  All I want to do is change patches from my iPad.

Maybe if I see what others are doing I can at least go from there?

Thank You.

Boss4Life


Elantric

#45
Apple makes the only USB Host Adapters that work.


Its crucial to use the official USB Adapter from your device manufacturer for your specific model.

For latest iPads (or  Iphone 5 running IOS7) - Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=3a

For older iPads (or  Iphone 4S running IOS7)  - Apple CCK (Camera Connection Kit)

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC531ZM/A/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit?fnode=3a


As posted earlier.

------
All your SetlistMaker GR-55 patch change questions are answered in the existing Setlistmaker thread here

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9090.msg65501#msg65501

Specifically this post spells it out - with instructions courtesy of member "Litesnsirens"
Control GR-55 using Setlistmaker on iPad
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9090.msg66757#msg66757



supernicd

#46
Quote from: Boss4Life on November 22, 2013, 06:34:47 PM
Still having trouble with this.

I connected my CCK to my iPad 2 then my USB cable to MIDI in on my GR-55. I went into my SYSTEM settings, then USB/MIDI and then the RX PC MAP TAB and have the BANK at 0 and PC :1 at [USER] 01:1 (Patch One), PC :2 at [USER] 01:2 (Patch Two), and PC ;3 at [USER] 01:3 (Patch Three).

Then inside Set List Maker I opened the MIDI preset assigned to a song and in the values I entered MSB 0, LSB (I left blank) and PROGRAM 1 ....

I have read everything 10 times over.....Instead of telling me to read something again, can someone please just tell me what THEY put in their MSB, LSB, PROGRAM slots?  All I want to do is change patches from my iPad.

Maybe if I see what others are doing I can at least go from there?

Thank You.

I don't use this, so I can only give you some generic advice.

You might want to consider posting questions about this in the thread Elantric linked above.  The reason is that others that actually use this specific app might have the thread bookmarked, will get emails about your question, and may be able to provide specific help.  Those same folks may never see this thread.

Do you have the PC RX switch turned on in the GR-55s system settings?  You did not mention this step.  If it is off (which I think is the default) the GR-55 will ignore program change messages.

Does the MIDI channel on which the GR-55 is set to listen for PC messages [PATCH CH in System-->MIDI/USB settings] match what the Setlist Maker app is sending them on (e.g. are they both set to channel 1)?

Is the app set to send messages to the right device?  A lot of iOS apps, in their MIDI settings will let you choose 1 or more CoreMIDI devices that will be included in the MIDI conversation.  Some of them default to send messages over Network Session 1, or nothing, which is not what you want.  You'd want to select the device that is connected to your CCK.  Again, I don't know this app specifically.  Some apps are designed to be more easy to set up and send their MIDI just about everywhere.  Some are designed to give more control and make you be very specific about what you want to do.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Boss4Life

Hello again SuperNiCd.....Thanks so much for taking the time to answer me in some detail. You are a thoughtful and considerate person to go to these lengths.

Sorry in my haste I forgotr to mention some things....
Yes I have the PC RX switch on and yes both the Set List Maker and the GR-55 are set to channel 1.

That is good advice to move my question. Sometimes I have trouble knowing where to post these questions since this forum is so vast.

I am on my way to the store now to buy a new CCK. I didn't buy an Apple product, I bought a knock-off to save some ka-ching.....So as Elantric stated.....It is vital to use the right supported connectors. So hopefully, that will be my fix....

Elantric

#48
QuoteI am on my way to the store now to buy a new CCK. I didn't buy an Apple product, I bought a knock-off to save some ka-ching.....So as Elantric stated.....It is vital to use the right supported connectors. So hopefully, that will be my fix....

Been there done that, the knockoff Apple Camera Adapters do not work for our needs.
You need the genuine Apple adapters listed above, else you will loose time trying to debug something you can't fix.

Boss4Life

#49
Hi again guys.....Thanks Elantric for posting again....

I got my APPLE CCK and hooked-it-up in place of myknock-off piece and I still can't see any patch changes... I bought an 8 dollar Midi to USB interface and it has three led's on it. One for power (that lights up) and the other two that have MIDI IN and MIDI OUT above them and they don't even as much as flicker. Could I possibly need a different cable?

I hooked up my GT-100 to the GR-55 Via MIDI and it worked (switched my patches) off of channel 1. So I know the 55 is on the right settings and receiving MIDI.

Another thing is I downloaded the FREE WRENCH MIDI MONITOR and it doesn't respond at .....How do these rascals work?

Any more ideas?

Still anyone want to throw me a bone and tell me what they have in their MSB, LSB, PROGRAM fields on one of their MIDI PRESETS? Please? Nobody ever answered that question yet....

(SuperNiCd) I will move these questions over to the GR-55 Discussion area to0.....I might get more feedback?