VG-8: Question about Joni Mitchell VG-8 patches

Started by Bill Ruppert, April 04, 2013, 08:01:57 PM

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carlb

#25
With Jaco, I get the notion that the both the irrational and the incredible drive and vision were from the same place.

That came through in the recent Jaco documentary. Jaco didn't even know how much he needed the approval, or adulation for his absolute brilliance.

What I didn't realize about Zawinul was how fiercely competitive he was, even (especially?) with members of his own band. Put those two together, and Zawinul was not about to give Jaco decent props or even much song-writing space within the Weather Report project. That turned out to be a souring point for Jaco.

Then Jaco's label not promoting his solo project album, and Jaco not getting the recognition for the masterful collection of music that was.

These and personal life issues pushed him into the erratic behavior that Joni saw first hand. Led to people not wanting to hire him for projects. Which just spiraled-out for him.

I have to wonder if he'd still be around, if there was a supportive/challenging group of amazing musicians he could have stumbled into.

Or, if the erratic behavior would have just come along regardless. We lost an amazing musical voice.

Joni tunings: I need a Roland box that can give us GP-10 modeled sounds for steel or nylon stringed acoustics/electrics with alt and 12-string tunings that reliably don't "warble" for harmonics or sustained chords.

I'm doing "Court and Spark" in a jazz combo, with a DGDGBE tuning (it's just something that works up neat voicings for a "G modal" version of the tune). What's interesting: the tuning works great without "tail warblies" when the fretless model is chosen. But choose a steel string acoustic, and full-on warblies ensue for anything that rings open.




ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

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Smash

#27
A whole concert with the VG - bass strings seem panned toward left, top towards right, ADT and heavy chorus? But what guitar model...


admin

#28
Quote from: Smash on November 07, 2018, 08:18:44 AM
But what guitar model...

http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2617

2008 Parker Fly Mojo Flame guitar. She uses this guitar as a synth controller in combination with a Roland VG-8 guitar synthesizer.

http://www.parkerguitars.com/support/catalogs/pdf/PARKER2008Catalog.pdf




Joni Mitchell's Guitars and Tunings Print-ready version
by Marc The Unique Guitar Blog
January 29, 2013
Original article: PDF

               
click to enlarge

Joni Mitchell is coming to my home town next month. Out of the three great lady folk singers of the early 1960's, Joan, Joni and Judy, Joni Mitchell was by far the most interesting guitarist. Plus, she used many very interesting guitars and many more interesting tunings.

The first professional instrument she owned was acquired back in 1966 when she received a 1956 Martin D-28 from a Marine captain. The captain was in Vietnam when his tent was hit with shrapnel, injuring him.

The captain had two guitars inside his tent at the time. Joni claimed this Martin to be her best guitar ever. She wondered if the explosion did something to the modules in the wood, since the guitars sound was incredible.

She [used] this guitar on all of her early albums. But by the time she recorded COURT AND SPARK, the guitar had been damaged by an airline carrier and soon after was stolen from a luggage carousel.

It was in the latter 1970's when she turned to electric guitars and preferred George Benson model Ibanez guitars which she played through a Roland Jazz Chorus amplifier. To keep up with her unique tunings, Joni traveled with five similar Ibanez guitars.

Each guitar was strung with differing sized strings which were matched to the tuning she used. She states that the guitar has to sound crystal clear when playing harmonics. Therefore the more slack the tuning was, the heavier the strings needed to be.

During that same decade Steve Klein built her a wonderful handmade guitar in Klein's own interesting and decorative style. This instrument was visually and technically a masterpiece. The sound hole's rosette ring could be removed to provide a larger bass voice that can be tuned by affecting the air resonance of the body. The inlays are I-Ching hexagram number 56. The Wanderer graces the face and upper bout of the instrument and Don Juan's.

The acoustics she now owns and uses include two Martin's; a D-45 and a D-28 and a Collings D2H and a Collings ¾ size guitar. All guitars are equipped with Highlander pickups, although she makes use of an external microphone on stage.

In 1995 Fred Walecki, the owner of Westwood Music in Los Angeles, built a unique Stratocaster style guitar for her. The body was made of lightweight German spruce and the neck was made of maple. This instrument contained a hex-pickup that could be used in conjunction with a Roland VG-8 synthesizer.

This instrument opened new options for Mitchell. Though the guitars strings maintained original tuning, the synth could alter each strings timbre and pitch. Instead of carrying around five instruments, she could now pack one guitar for her concerts, programming the Roland guitar synthesizer to match her variety of tunings.

Not only was it useful for her variety of tunings, but also for the unique sounds she could coax from the Roland synth.

More recently I have seen videos of Joni wielding a 2008 Parker Fly Mojo Flame guitar. She uses this guitar as a synth controller in combination with a Roland VG-8 guitar synthesizer.

This guitar contains the built in Hex pickup and also contains a piezo pickup that allows her Parker guitar unique sounds to match her music.

For the unfamiliar, it was during the early part of 1960's that folk music briefly became the rage. This music grew out of the clubs around Washington Square Park and New York City's Greenwich Village.

Many famous players started due to their love of acoustic blues music. The clubs attracted a hotbed of musical talent. Name a well known folk artist and you can be sure he or she got their start by playing at one of these clubs.

Joni states she purchased Pete Seeger's How to Play Folk-Style Guitar. She was so proficient that she skipped ahead of the book's lessons and learned to fingerpick the way Elizabeth Cotton picked on her famous song Freight Train. And though she may not have mastered that alternating 1 - 5 bass line, Mitchell did come up with her own style.

Like many guitar greats, the way she strokes and picks the strings with her right hand is the heart of her guitar sound. Her style went beyond finger picking as she concentrated more and more on song writing.

Early on she caught on the some of the open tunings of blues players. From there she built up a bevy of tunings for her songs.

For instance she says the simplest tuning in her opinion is D modal (DADGBD). She also utilizes other simple tuning in open G (DGDGBD) and open D (DADF#AD).

For her two most well known songs, Both Sides Now and Big Yellow Taxi she uses a capo on the second fret and tunes to open E (EBEG#BE). She makes use of the capo along with the diverse tunings. For Marcie she tunes to CBDFCE.

Mitchell claims she experiments by attempting to play her songs with different tunings to get a larger sound. She visualizes sounds as colours and shapes. To date, Mitchell said that she has used 51 tunings. Some tunings recur at several pitches. Generally speaking, her tunings started at a base of open E and dropped to D and then to C, and these days some even plummet to B or A in the bass. This evolution reflects the steady lowering of her voice since the '60s, which occurs in all of us as we get older.

Mitchell has come up with a way to categorize her tunings that reminds me of Nashville Notation. Since the guitar is tuned in fourths which occur on the fifth fret, standard tuning is 5 5 5 4 5 with E as the bottom string.

Her tunings include 7 5 or 7 7 for the bottom strings. As an example, Free Man In Paris utilizes D A D G B D (the 7 5 tuning).

For those who are interested, the only published documentation of her 30-year guitar odyssey is four single-album songbooks transcribed by Joel Bernstein, her longtime guitar tech and musical/photographic archivist, which show the real tunings and chord shapes.

Joni Mitchell frequently turns to the dulcimer in her on stage performance. During a back packing trip Mitchell did not take a guitar, but did bring the dulcimer and a flute, learning to play both instruments.

I may add that Mitchell is also an accomplished pianist. And I cannot leave out the fact that in the 1970's Joni was very dissatisfied with the standard bass style of the era. She came across a bass player from Florida named Jaco Pastorius, who gave a very interesting flavor to her songs. And of course Pastorius became one of the most recognized and sought after bass players of his era.
https://www.loudersound.com/features/10-examples-of-the-supernatural-genius-of-jaco-pastorius


Here it is 2013 and Joni Mitchell is still singing and playing her songs to the delight of her fans and admirers.

Check out her fingerings in this 1970 video.
Joni Mitchell — Both Sides Now (Live, 1970).

Joni Mitchell — Big Yellow Taxi (Painting With Words And Music).

pasha811

Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Smash


chrish

Favorite Joni Mitchell song.

"Sire of Sorrow"

"Let me speak
Let me spit out my bitterness
Born of grief and nights without sleep
And festering flesh
Do you have eyes?
Can you see like mankind sees?
Why have you soured and curdled me?
Oh, you tireless watcher
What have I done to you?
That you make everything I dread and everything I fear
Come true"

sixeight

#32
I will go the a concert of Joni Mitchell next week. Well, not Joni herself, but an orchestra playing her music. The orchestra is called "Noordpool orkest" and they are based in my hometown.

They also did an amazing concert of the music of Radiohead, which can be listened on Spotify. This is one of the most amazing suites ever played by an orchestra:

admin

#33
http://www.garydanielcook.com/bio.htm
https://www.eastmanguitars.com/gary_cook
Gary Cook has played guitar on numerous demos for writers from Warner/Chappell, Bruton and other top publishing companies. His awards as a songwriter include MCA Records Talent Search, Colorado Composers Classic and International Songwriting Contest.



His compositions continue to receive plays in television and film internationally, including such shows as Pawn Stars, ESPN NBA, Introduction To E, Drew Carey Show, One Life to Live and others.



Gary's skill set transcends guitar. He has shared his talents as guitarist, songwriter, singer, producer, and sonic architect with recording artists such as Sting, Joni Mitchell, Neal Schon of Journey, as well as musical instrument manufacturers Roland, Boss, Yamaha and others.

After a long search and audition process with over 200 musicians, Roland selected Gary to join Allan Holdsworth and Gundy Keller in the unveiling of the legendary Roland VG8 V Guitar System. Gary traveled the globe as a Roland and Boss evangelist conducting seminars and performing at trade shows including the Namm Show in California and Frankfurt Music Messe in Germany.

Gary's talent with sound creation was also utilized to create sounds for several guitar products including Roland VG8, GR30/33, Boss GT5/6 and Boss Me pedals. Gary also worked with Yamaha to help develop the Yamaha DG Series Amplifiers and Effects. Guitar Magazine found his work with guitar technology to be an interesting addition to his career path as professional guitarist and featured him in an interview entitled: "A Career In Virtual Reality".



Legendary songwriter/recording artist Joni Mitchell invited Gary Cook and Fred Waleki (owner of iconic guitar shop Westwood Music) to her home studio in Los Angeles to work with her on open tunings and sounds with the VG-8. After several long nights of jamming and creating sounds with her diary of tunings, Joni invited Gary to travel with her to the New Orleans Jazz Festival. It wasn't long after working with Joni Mitchell, that Gary accompanied artist relations manager Erik L. to meet Sting in Malibu, California.

sixeight

Quote from: Smash on November 07, 2018, 09:49:56 AM
No I meant what model in the VG  :)

It sounds single coil to me, but there is so much chorus, it is hard to hear. Maybe the panning of the strings gives a clou. Or perhaps someone with the VG8 recognizes the patch? Many artists just use stock patches, as they do not have much time to tweak.

billbax

#35
Google search with "serenade".

Quote"a piece of music sung or played in the open air, typically by a man at night under the window of his beloved."

It doesn't of course mention Joni Mitchell, who has written dozens of romatic female/male love songs. Sadly most genuine romantic tunes are written by men, although Joni Mitchell is the exception! It's a pity, but that's the way it is.

Bill

DreamTheory

Joni is vastly underappreciated as a guitarist.
electric: Ibanez SA 73 semihollow body with Gibson Classic '57's, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

admin

#37
Almost on topic , but had to share


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admin

#39
Joni live 2022, playing same gear
* PARKER Fly With GK-2A 13 pin output
DSP Alt Tuned 1995 Roland  VG-8