Antares enters the arena of DSP Modelling and Tuning

Started by germanicus, May 19, 2011, 01:04:33 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

germanicus

My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

scratch17

There is (to me) only one ground breaking technology with this product. It is the DSP driven intonation
correction technology. From the video it seems to work really well.

The modeling, alternate tunings, virtual capo, etc., are all available to me with my VG-8.

If the ATG-6 software had an editor, it would start to get close to VG-99 usefulness
(as a modeling program).

If Antares made the software able to add models from other modeling programs, such as Guitar Rig,
I'd be more impressed. This would require some sort of plug-in functionality.

There currently is technology that corrects intonation mechanically.

Many guitar manufacturers have models with the Buzz Feiten system. It is a popular add-on to many
boutique guitars.

True Temperament's approach is much more radical. They have necks with fret placements that are determined
by intonation requirements. They claim a better result than the Feiten system because,
"True Temperament calibrates each of (the) 132 fretted notes individually."

However, they actually build necks with two types of correction, as there is no 'perfect' fret positioning that
corrects for all keys. See the FAQ on the site for more details. Based on the videos and sound samples from
the site, it seems as though the "Thidell Formula 1" necks work really well.

Here's their web site: http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

A True Temperament neck for Strat style guitars runs about $800. Of course, you either need a Strat you don't
mind altering or you need to build one to use the neck. I've looked at building a custom Strat with a True Temperament
neck because I have a shop and the skill to work the wood. I'd add a Graphtec Ghost with Hexpander.
Even doing the labor myself, parts and materials would still run me close to $1000. That makes for a pretty expensive
guitar.

The advantage to the mechanical correction approach is that it corrects intonation for all possible outputs (GK, piezo, and standard magnetic
pickups).

Antares hasn't said whether there will be a GK output on production units. The press video's prototype has 7 pin MIDI, but not GK. 
So we don't know if you could use this with a GK/hex equipped guitar. Even with a hex/GK would work with ATG-6, we don't
know whether correction could be applied to an outboard VG- device.

Since the pickup in a GK system is hexaphonic, theoretically pitch correction could be done. Note that the Antares engineer
says that they are only using 60 % of the processor's DSP, so this functionality might be available down the road.

However, there is no way for ATG-6 to pitch correct a standard monophonic pickup. ATG-6 requires a single feed from each string
to do its correction work. So, for standard mono analog pickup output, the only game in town is mechanical correction.

ATG-6 has one potentially great advantage over mechanical correction. It tunes the guitar perfectly, regardless of actual string tension.
On guitars with whammy bars, mechanical correction won't help when a bend puts the guitar out of tune.

From the ATG-6 video, however, strings way out of tune are no problem. So after a bend that de-tunes the guitar, Antares would still be
spot on.

Steven.


Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

germanicus

Quote from: scratch17 on July 21, 2011, 01:23:14 PM
There is (to me) only one ground breaking technology with this product. It is the DSP driven intonation
correction technology. From the video it seems to work really well.

The modeling, alternate tunings, virtual capo, etc., are all available to me with my VG-8.

If the ATG-6 software had an editor, it would start to get close to VG-99 usefulness
(as a modeling program).

If Antares made the software able to add models from other modeling programs, such as Guitar Rig,
I'd be more impressed. This would require some sort of plug-in functionality.

There currently is technology that corrects intonation mechanically.

Many guitar manufacturers have models with the Buzz Feiten system. It is a popular add-on to many
boutique guitars.

True Temperament's approach is much more radical. They have necks with fret placements that are determined
by intonation requirements. They claim a better result than the Feiten system because,
"True Temperament calibrates each of (the) 132 fretted notes individually."

However, they actually build necks with two types of correction, as there is no 'perfect' fret positioning that
corrects for all keys. See the FAQ on the site for more details. Based on the videos and sound samples from
the site, it seems as though the "Thidell Formula 1" necks work really well.

Here's their web site: http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

A True Temperament neck for Strat style guitars runs about $800. Of course, you either need a Strat you don't
mind altering or you need to build one to use the neck. I've looked at building a custom Strat with a True Temperament
neck because I have a shop and the skill to work the wood. I'd add a Graphtec Ghost with Hexpander.
Even doing the labor myself, parts and materials would still run me close to $1000. That makes for a pretty expensive
guitar.

The advantage to the mechanical correction approach is that it corrects intonation for all possible outputs (GK, piezo, and standard magnetic
pickups).

Antares hasn't said whether there will be a GK output on production units. The press video's prototype has 7 pin MIDI, but not GK. 
So we don't know if you could use this with a GK/hex equipped guitar. Even with a hex/GK would work with ATG-6, we don't
know whether correction could be applied to an outboard VG- device.

Since the pickup in a GK system is hexaphonic, theoretically pitch correction could be done. Note that the Antares engineer
says that they are only using 60 % of the processor's DSP, so this functionality might be available down the road.

However, there is no way for ATG-6 to pitch correct a standard monophonic pickup. ATG-6 requires a single feed from each string
to do its correction work. So, for standard mono analog pickup output, the only game in town is mechanical correction.

ATG-6 has one potentially great advantage over mechanical correction. It tunes the guitar perfectly, regardless of actual string tension.
On guitars with whammy bars, mechanical correction won't help when a bend puts the guitar out of tune.

From the ATG-6 video, however, strings way out of tune are no problem. So after a bend that de-tunes the guitar, Antares would still be
spot on.

Steven.

Actually it *may* be possible now or in the near future for them to do pitch correction from a monophonic pickup. One company has managed to incorporate isolating different notes inside of a single conglomerated sound source and 'correct/change' individual pitches within that source. Antares' principal competitor, Celemony has included this function in their Melodyne software.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

vanceg

Quote from: germanicus on July 21, 2011, 03:28:00 PM
Actually it *may* be possible now or in the near future for them to do pitch correction from a monophonic pickup. One company has managed to incorporate isolating different notes inside of a single conglomerated sound source and 'correct/change' individual pitches within that source. Antares' principal competitor, Celemony has included this function in their Melodyne software.

But why?  Why would you do this? Why not use a hex pickup. They are cheap, easy to install and offer many benefits. 

scratch17

#4
Germanicus wrote:

QuoteAntares' principal competitor, Celemony has included this function in their Melodyne software.

I assume you are talking about DNA (Dynamic Note Access), which separates the notes of chords into individual pitches.
DNA works well, from what I've seen in videos. In fact, I plan on trying it out soon when I buy Melodyne Studio,
which comes with Melodyne Plugin. DNA is part of Melodyne Plugin.

However, even with today's most powerful processors, DNA couldn't do its analysis, and then have a DSP algorithm
adjust intonation in real time
. For recordings, you could use DNA and apply pitch correction. However, Melodyne does
not include an algorithm that corrects guitar intonation with its pitch correction software.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=508.0

Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

Elantric

#5
I hope to test the MIDI tracking speed of these new MIDI guitars from Parker and Peavey
EDIT: skip that - zero Guitar to MIDI functions here - move along.


NAMM 2012: Antares previewed its ATG-6 Auto-Tune guitar technology last year, and now it's been implemented into the new Parker Auto-Tune MaxxFly.
http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/antares-atg-6-auto-tune-for-guitarists-441690

Developed as a collaboration between the two companies. The MaxxFly offersinstant string tuning, Solid-Tune Intonation, an extensive selection of guitar and pickup models, a wide variety of popular (as well as unique) alternate tunings, and a virtual capo that provides a full two-octave range. It also has a dedicated MIDI interface.

For more on these features, check out the official press release below.
Antares and Parker Guitars Auto-Tune MaxxFly guitar press release

Antares Audio Technologies and Parker Guitars have today announced the introduction of the Parker Auto-Tune MaxxFly Guitar, featuring Antares' groundbreaking Auto-Tune for Guitar technology.

In 1997, Antares® Audio Technologies revolutionized vocal production with the introduction of Auto-Tune® pitch correction technology. In 1994, Parker revolutionized the electric guitar with the introduction of the Parker Fly. Now, Parker and Antares have partnered to create the Parker ATDF842 MaxxFly, the first guitar to integrate the full range of Auto-Tune For Guitar features in a state-of-the art electric guitar.

The new Parker Auto-Tune MaxxFly, combines everything that makes a Parker guitar unique with all of the power of Auto-Tune for Guitar. Instant string tuning, Solid-Tune™ Intonation, an extensive selection of guitar and pickup models, a wide variety of popular (as well as unique) alternate tunings, and a virtual capo that provides a full two-octave range make the Parker Auto-Tune MaxxFly one of the world's most advanced guitars.

Key Parker Auto-Tune MaxxFly features include:

- Instant String Tuning

With the Parker Auto-Tune MaxxFly, you can tune all six strings instantly with the push of a button (no motors or gears required). Simply strum the strings, trigger String Tuning via a button or foot switch, and your guitar is instantly in tune.

- The Solid-Tune™ Intonation System

Less-than-perfect intonation muddies a guitar's tone. But by using the Auto-Tune for Guitar's Solid-Tune™ Intonation system, the Parker Auto-Tune MaxxFly constantly monitors the precise pitch of each individual string and makes any corrections necessary to ensure that every note of every chord and riff is always in tune, regardless of variables like finger position or pressure. As a result, listening to a guitar with Solid-Tune is a revelation, offering a purity of tone that has simply never before been possible.

Additionally, Solid-Tune™ is smart enough to know when players intend to manipulate pitch, so they can play bends and vibrato exactly as they always always have. Solid-Tune Intonation even makes it easier to bend to the right pitch every time

Elantric

For Immediate Release
Contact: public.relations@usmusiccorp.com
US Music Corporation
(800) 877-6863

Parker and Antares Revolutionize the Guitar

Antares Auto-Tune® technology revolutionized vocal performance in 1997 with the invention of autotune. Parker Guitars revolutionized the electric guitar in 1994 with the introduction of lightweight but strong and resonant materials to the manufacturing process. Now, Parker Guitars and Antares have partnered together to create one of the first autotuned guitars. Parker Guitars is the first company to be integrating Auto-Tune® For Guitar technology with a full production electric guitar. Auto-Tune® For Guitar enables the impossible – for a guitar to have perfect intonation every time it is played, no matter the position. The technology also automatically corrects during bends and use of vibrato. The Auto-Tune® For Guitar Technology is available on the Parker ATDF842, new at NAMM, and will retail for $7999.99.

Parker Autotune MaxxFly

The Parker ATDF842 Maxx Fly has a Basswood neck with carbon glass epoxy fretboard and a one piece Alder body. The guitar also features Seymour Duncan '59 neck and JB bridge pickups as well as Graphtech® Ghost piezo saddles.

Auto-Tune® technology provides: Solid-Tune™ Intonation System, Instant String Tuning, Alternate Tunings, Virtual Capo, Guitar and Pickup modeling, and MIDI interface.

Visit us at www.parkerguitars.com/autotune-maxxfly/ for a detailed explanation of this exciting new technology.

There will be a press conference at NAMM to introduce this new technology on Friday, January 20th, at 1:00 PM. Join us in the Press Room located in the lobby of the convention center in front of Lobby E.

For more information on Parker Guitars, visit www.parkerguitars.com
For more information on US Music Corp, visit www.usmusiccorp.com
For more information on Jam Industries, Ltd., visit www.jamindustries.com

Elantric

Oh well - the new Parker Maxfly with Anteres AutoTune's MIDI Interface is for Input only - and does not perform any Guitar to MIDI 

MIDI

The Auto-Tune MaxxFly's MIDI interface allows every parameter of every function to be controlled by standard MIDI continuous controller messages. This opens up the possibility of control by MIDI foot controllers, programmable control surfaces, iPhones or iPads, computers, or, in fact, any source of MIDI as well as creating presets and recalling then using MIDI preset change commands. It also allows the firmware of the Auto-Tune for Guitar system to be updated using standard MIDI Sysex files.


Frank


cynegetic


Elantric

#11
I understand the MSRP on the Peavey AT-200 is $600


QuoteKit please!

See that here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13462.0



vanceg

Quote from: Elantric on January 20, 2012, 11:24:30 AM
I understand the MSRP on the Peavey AT-200 is $600

Yeah - If you are only interested in the tuning/intonation features, the Peavey looks like the bargain deal.

A2theT

#13
I noticed they have a website up now dedicated to it:

http://guitar.auto-tune.com/index.shtml

I prefer this demo.  She has really huge               :-X   peavey amps behind her. 

   

HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

Mrchevy

She was playing a guitar :o........... after reading and watching all of the above, I am reminded of a piece of lyric by Brian Adams " forget about all that (electronic s@!t) and learn how to play guitar. The next newest and greatest thing will be a thermo fitzwack combobulated laser pick. Just set your guitar in a stand on stage, put a spot light on it, point the laser pick at it , then go get a beer and flirt with the bar tender while you watch your guitar perform a PERFECT set. Yes, I like having toys to inspire creativity but not toys that create for me. David Gilmour would turn over in his grave, If he were dead. No offense, just my 2 cents which is really only worth a penny.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

A2theT

true. needs don't always cause the acquisition though. sometimes its just wants for the sake of wanting. or GAS. ore pure boredom.

personally, I'd show more interest if there was a do-it-yerselfer kit.  not a huge fan of licensed technology in this case.  hobbiest like me prefer to build the model boat inside our own chosen bottle as opposed to purchase the boat already installed in a predetermined bottle.  (if you catch my drift).
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

merman93

#16
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

tekrytor

#17
Merman, thank you, thank you, thank you! I have always been a Peavey fan, my whole life...and they just paid me back again. As good as the Antares video was technically, nothing makes me happier than CC's smile while stretching that last note! The Mrs said if I rewind it once more, she's hiring an attorney. Isn't technology wonderful? Maybe this thread should be merged into the " Guilty Pleasures" thread?
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

A2theT

@merman93 - yes we posted about this here https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3930.msg39493#msg39493
I noticed you have a JTV-89, how do you like it?  Did you have a chance to try all the JTV models before purchase?  Trying to decide if its worth having.  I don't own a POD HD500 (yet...)
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

A2theT

That was my fear as well.  I've always been an Ibanez nut and have owned lots of them and everything else doesnt seem to get played.  I will probably sell my 540P Skolnick and purchase a premium and at some point an AxeFX or Kemper if the come out with cheaper model that doesnt have the ability to profile but allows you to load profiles..  Thanks for your very informative response! 
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

Elantric

#20
Re Peavey AT-200 AutoTune guitar.

I wasn't too impressed myself, at Winter NAMM 2012, it still appeared to be a half baked idea - focused more towards those who cant play guitar in tune.

When it comes to self tuning guitars, I loose interest fast.

But that was 9 months ago.

But show me reliable Alt Tunings - that's good I can use that.

But remember DSP Alt Tuning will always suffer from lack of natural sustain, since the fundamental pitch of the basic string, remains in a different pitch than what you are feeding your amplifier.
 
Thus my interest in the Tronical Tune system that should be available soon.

All the potential is there, but nobody from Antares / Parker / Peavey was ever demonstrating a "Guitar to MIDI" function to drive external synths- call me when they enable that.

(Note these guitars have MIDI Input - for external control of the Antares DSP functions, yet no MIDI Output as standard)
More here:
http://guitar.auto-tune.com/index.shtml




And be sure to check out the Guitar Modeling Video Demo here:
http://guitar.auto-tune.com/index.shtml

What frustrates me is that at all the trade shows I have attended, they NEVER talk about the Guitar pickup modeling, and "hint" that this might be an optional Upgrade feature  - with no price set yet.

The web site is states the AT-200B Break Out box is Optional - to Remotely power the guitar

QuoteHardware

    Amazing automatic tuning via Antares(r) Auto-Tune(tm) for guitar system
    Sealed diecast tuners, 15-1 gear ratio
    Master volume with momentary switch to initiate String-tune and Solid-tune™ function
    Master tone control. Pull up to turn off active system and change to passive pickups
    2 Peavey custom designed humbucking pickups
    Three-way switching selector for both the active Auto-Tune system and passive pickups
    Dual action torsion rod
    Full Size MIDI input
    String thru body for maximum sustain
    1/4" and 8 pin DIN connectors. 8 pin DIN connector included for use with optional AT200-B breakout box. (more details on following pages)
    Battery powered via 4 AA cells. Can also be remotely powered with AT200-B breakout box
    Upgrade software packages available through Antares via http://guitar.auto-tune.com. Please visit the website for a listing of available software upgrades
    25.5" scale
    Solid Basswood Body
    Available finishes: Black, Candy Apple Red











But the news is  -according to Zzounds  the Peavey AT-200 with Antares DSP Guitar Modeling built in is due to ship next week $499

But more likely in December
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B008BEEN9G/

Choice of Black or Red.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVAT200

Quoteoverview specs docs
Product Description
zZounds is an
authorized Peavey dealer Authorized Peavey Retailer
Perfect Tuning. Perfect Intonation -- Instantly. With the simple push of a button on the new Peavey AT-200 Autotune electric guitar, guitar players can now create music in perfect tune and pitch. The Peavey AT-200 features Antares Auto-Tune for Guitar with String Tune and the Solid-Tune intonation system, two technologies that work together to bring the clarity of perfect pitch to this high-quality instrument.

With the Peavey AT-200, you can even switch into alternate tunings like Drop D, Open G, Baritone and more instantly by adjusting your finger positions when engaging the Auto-Tune for Guitar feature. And no bulky, unattractive hardware weighs down the playing experience -- the Peavey AT-200 looks, plays and sounds just like a conventional guitar. Exactly the way it should.

String Tune
With Auto-Tune for Guitar, tuning up your guitar is a breeze. You can tune all six strings instantly with the push of a button (no motors or gears required). Simply strum the strings, trigger String Tuning via a button or foot switch, and your guitar is instantly in tune.

It's really that simple. And with Auto-Tune for Guitar's Virtual Capo function, you can shift pitch both up and down a full octave, so you can play in any key or range. This allows you to play open chords in different keys at their traditional positions down at the bottom of the neck. (Imagine playing 12th fret hammer ons and pull offs in the open position, or switching to baritone guitar, bass, or even sub-bass, with the push of a button.)

Solid-Tune Intonation
It's one thing to tune up your strings, but as anyone who's been playing for awhile knows, the tougher challenge is maintaining perfect intonation as you move up and down the neck and finger complex chords. Luckily, this is where Auto-Tune for Guitar performs some of its most dramatic magic.

Less-than-perfect intonation muddies your guitar's tone. But by using our new Solid-Tune Intonation system, an Auto-Tune for Guitar equipped guitar constantly monitors the precise pitch of each individual string and makes any corrections necessary to ensure that every note of every chord and riff is always in tune, regardless of variables like finger position or pressure or physical limitations of the instrument. As a result, listening to a guitar with Solid-Tune is a revelation, offering a purity of tone that has simply never before been possible.

Of course, Solid-Tune is smart enough to know when you want to manipulate pitch, so you can play bends and vibrato exactly as you always do. In fact, Solid-Tune Intonation makes it even easier to bend to the right pitch every time.

Bending and Vibrato
Auto-Tune for Guitar's Solid-Tune technology is even smart enough to recognize when you want to manipulate the pitch, so you can play bends and vibrato exactly as you always do. In fact, Solid-Tune Intonation makes it even easier to bend to the right pitch every time.

Alternate Tuning
Using Auto-Tune's world-standard pitch detection and extremely high-quality pitch shifting, Auto-Tune for Guitar lets you quickly select from among familiar alternate tunings as well as dramatic new tunings that would be physically impossible without Auto-Tune for Guitar.

From popular tunings like double drop D, open D, open G, and DADGAD to previously-impossible tunings like six-string bass, split bass/guitar (i.e., just the bottom string shifted an octave down), twelve string, and the best polyphonic octaver you've ever heard, Auto-Tune for Guitar gives you access to virtually any tuning you can imagine, along with some you may have never imagined. All without the need to stop and physically retune or swap guitars.

Features:
- Amazing automatic tuning via Antares Auto-Tune for guitar system
- Sealed diecast tuners, 15-1 gear ratio
- Master volume with momentary switch to initiate String-tune and Solid-tune function
- Master tone control. Pull up to turn off active system and change to passive pickups
- 2 Peavey custom designed humbucking pickups
- Three-way switching selector for both the active Auto-Tune system and passive pickups
- Dual action torsion rod
- Full Size MIDI input
- String thru body for maximum sustain
- 1/4" and 8 pin DIN connectors. 8 pin DIN connector included for use with optional AT200-B breakout box. (more details on following pages)
- Battery powered via 4 AA cells. Can also be remotely powered with AT200-B breakout box
- Upgrade software packages available through Antares. Please visit the website for a listing of available software upgrades
- 25.5" scale
- Solid Basswood Body


Peavey ST-200 site:
http://www.peavey.com/products/at200/index.cfm/item/118115/at200.html/index.cfm/item/118114/number/03016160/AT-200Black.cfm

Owners manual
http://www.peavey.com/assets%5Ccategory%5Cmanuals/1152_17523.pdf

mbenigni

Agree, I have no use for the auto-tuning thing from a performance standpoint, and the idea of a guitar fixing a kid's bends in real time makes me very uneasy.  Anything that disconnects the player from what he/she is playing is anathema to music, and even without getting into the philosophical angles, it's going to prevent someone from developing a good ear and good technique. 

On the other hand, promises of perfect intonation, and tuning that doesn't drift no matter how hard I abuse the guitar... interesting.

The main appeal of the product is in alt. tunings and instrument modeling in an affordable package.  We'll just have to wait and see whether it trumps the Variax (electronics) in execution.

oddguitar

I've explored the pros & cons of mechanical alternate tunings vs. modeled alternate tunings.

I bought the first Gibson Robot guitar when it first came out and returned it a week later because the Tronical system didn't always tune the guitar perfectly & I thought the quality was really lacking for a guitar in that price-range.

Gibson came out with subsequent models (Dark Fire, Dusk Tiger, Standard 2010, Firebird X), none of which I was able to pull the trigger on because of the styling (except for the Standard 2010), and lack of after sales service, parts availability and committment on Gibson's part.  In hindsight, I'm very glad I didn't purchase one, given some of the horror stories I've read.

A few years later I purchased the Fret-King Supermatic guitar.  I ended up returning it too, because I couldn't get used to the Korean-made quality of the guitar (I'm fortunate to have a collection of Suhr, Grosh, Anderson, PWE, Tyler, Teuffel & Parker guitars).  The tuning system, however, worked exactly as advertised.  I'm really hoping that Trev Wilkinson will offer the bridge as a retrofit, but from talking to him at NAMM, that doesn't seem to be the case for the near future.

The most recent development is the Tronical Tune retrofit, which has been announced for a while, but isn't available yet (much like the Fishman Triple Play).  I'm hoping that it will actually be released and work as advertised, seeing that the Wilkinson unit is only available as part of a guitar and the AxCent tuning system is way too expensive (albeit good).

There are many advantages to modeled alternate tunings....constant string tension, instant tuning changes, less string breakage....but there is something to be said for actually changing the pitch of the strings, especially in regards to feel and sustain as Elantric mentioned.

I'm excited about the Peavey AT-200....it worked as advertised at NAMM and is really really affordable for what it offers.  Once they release the breakout box, it will have many more options at it's disposal.  Plus the perfect intonation is an added bonus.  I have a guitar with the Evertune bridge (www.evertune.com) on it and it has really really good intonation (it could only be better with a TrueTemperament neck), so I can appreciate having a perfectly tuned and intonated guitar.

As far as Parker goes, I was able to try the AutoTune Maxxfly at NAMM after lots of prodding at the Parker booth (It supposedly wasn't ready for prime-time, so they only wanted the product demo guy playing it).  It is a very cool concept.  My only beef, outside of the ludicrous price-point, are the ergonomics of the controls.  They were unmarked, making it such that I had trouble understanding what control did what, and what I had selected.  Keep in mind, this was a NAMM demo model, so I'm sure it is going to get tweaked before the production model is released.  However, outside of the demo guitar and a blurb on their website, Parker has yet to offer any additional info as to availability since the debut in January, so I'm not 100% convinced that they will actually offer this guitar to the public.  It doesn't take a lot of market research to realize that the market for $8,000 AutoTune Parker guitars has to be very very small, especially when you have a competitor offering most of the same technology in a $500 guitar.


-oddguitar

Elantric

#23
Quote
Gibson came out with subsequent models (Dark Fire, Dusk Tiger, Standard 2010, Firebird X), none of which I was able to pull the trigger on because of the styling (except for the Standard 2010), and lack of after sales service, parts availability and committment on Gibson's part.  In hindsight, I'm very glad I didn't purchase one, given some of the horror stories I've read.

All True - I drank the cool aid in 2008 and bought a Dark Fire, bought the T-Shirt, even help start a user community for them:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1415.15

Got really annoyed that each Dec 1st like clockwork Gibson would introduce yet another variant, with out fixing the prior bugs from the current model

The Dark Fire was particularly rushed and "over-hyped", with a poor build quality:

Case in point: Here's how they soldered Dark Fire output jacks at Gibson in Nashville

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31551.0

My Gibson Dark Fire currently sits in a glass showcase shrine - since its basically unplayable after I foolishly upgraded to the firmware to support a (Too Noisy) "Chameleon Mode" parametric EQ function which was advertised to "make the Dark Fire sound like any other guitar". Dont even ask me about the missing Bluetooth Audio Output which never materialized.



aliensporebomb

I take it there's no way to revert to the previous software to eliminate that feature?

The Dark Fire sure was a pretty looking guitar (to me) but it's sad it was such a disaster in many ways electronically.



My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.