Intermittent Missing CC# messages using Assign feature for toggles

Started by cafeTechne, November 24, 2022, 05:26:30 PM

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cafeTechne

Sending toggle CC#'s coded to assigns and sometimes the information doesn't get sent. Is this a known issue? Peremptory search of the forum came up short so I figured I'd ask!

stub

There's an often-quoted part of the manual that has to do with choosing the correct switch settings so that things transmit properly. Here's a copy-paste of that info:

SY-1000 mode + physical FS type/setting = final behavior (including pedal LED)

SY-1000 [toggle] + FS-7  [Latch] = double latching, requires 2 presses to change state, pedal LED irrelevant

SY-1000 [toggle] + FS-7  [Moment] = single press toggles effect on, 2nd press for off, LED on while held

SY-1000 [moment] + FS-7  [moment] = only on while held down, pedal led on while held

SY-1000 [moment] + FS-7  [Latch] = toggles on/off, pedal led toggles with effect status

NOTE: The first two combinations are useless.

When using expression pedal as source, make sure SY-1000 assign is set to MOMENTARY

cafeTechne

Thank you for your reply! In order to clarify, I am not using an external controller but using assigns on the bank up, bank down, ctl 1, etc. When those are mapped to fx, compressors, eq's, etc. they TOGGLE as if they were calls on a stack instead of iterating through. So the first press will turn on the eq, the second will turn it off WHILE turning on the associated assign. I've had to clear out the banks and leave them blank in order to make the ASSIGN CC# be the first call on the stack (i.e. trigger on the first press down of the foot on the switch).

stub

That's above my pay-grade.  :)

The only thing I can think of is to make sure you don't have any conflicts, but that shouldn't matter in this case. This isn't something I've seen reported here before. Lots of times a poster will do a face-palm and realize some weird setting that caused the glitch. But I suppose you've got a use case that might reveal a bug.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: studentofplato on November 25, 2022, 01:47:46 PMThank you for your reply! In order to clarify, I am not using an external controller but using assigns on the bank up, bank down, ctl 1, etc. When those are mapped to fx, compressors, eq's, etc. they TOGGLE as if they were calls on a stack instead of iterating through. So the first press will turn on the eq, the second will turn it off WHILE turning on the associated assign. I've had to clear out the banks and leave them blank in order to make the ASSIGN CC# be the first call on the stack (i.e. trigger on the first press down of the foot on the switch).

Hey
I'm trying to follow what's happening.
There's something I'm not getting.

Are you sending out assign CC# external and at the same time assign a fx parameter with the same ctl fi ctl 1 ?

Or are you sending CC# to the SY ?


And you're stating that.

Quote from: studentofplato on November 24, 2022, 05:26:30 PMSending toggle CC#'s coded to assigns and sometimes the information doesn't get sent.

What do you mean by sometimes ?
Every other time , random etc ?

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

gumtown

Foot switches on Boss gear don't toggle sent cc#, they are all value "0" when foot switch is up, and value "127" while pressed.
Where as a assign will stay in the state the patch was saved in, when selecting that patch, that will be the initial state.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

fokof

Might be one of your controler is sent as Switch the other a Momentary.


A guess.....

cafeTechne

Quote from: gumtown on November 26, 2022, 12:46:40 PMFoot switches on Boss gear don't toggle sent cc#, they are all value "0" when foot switch is up, and value "127" while pressed.
Where as a assign will stay in the state the patch was saved in, when selecting that patch, that will be the initial state.

Quote from: Brak(E)man on November 26, 2022, 12:39:40 PMHey
I'm trying to follow what's happening.
There's something I'm not getting.

Are you sending out assign CC# external and at the same time assign a fx parameter with the same ctl fi ctl 1 ?

Or are you sending CC# to the SY ?


And you're stating that.

What do you mean by sometimes ?
Every other time , random etc ?




Are you sending out assign CC# external and at the same time assign a fx parameter with the same ctl fi ctl 1 ?

I was attempting to send CC#'s to ableton, where they are bound to the ARM TRACK on midi channels so that I can turn on collections of midi tracks. When there is a also a fx call in the ctl block (for example) it will trigger that on, and then on the subsequent foot press will turn the fx call off but trigger the on call on the assign. This behavior is reduplicated in multiple different contexts. I've just resolved to leave the top row BANK DOWN/UP CTL1 AND CTL2 null and left the assigns with the CC# calls (5,6,7,8, in this example) active and this gets me the desired ability to use it as an ableton controller, but hamstrings the native abilities of the sy-1000. Guess it's just a design flaw from using an imperative programming paradigm? I wish I could get at the source code because I feel like I have a good enough idea of what's happening on the software side to troubleshoot this. Please hire me BOSS/Roland. : )

Or are you sending CC# to the SY ?


Brak(E)man

So in short.
You're getting a CC# the second "foot press" ?

What about the 3rd etc ? What happens then ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

gumtown

The cc# in the Assigns are only for receiving cc# data from an external midi controller.
I am using the GR-55 cc# output to control my SY-1000 and have no issues with some quite complex Assgn setups.
There is no internal connection between the SY  footswitch sent cc# to the midi out, and the Assigns cc#.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Frank

Quote from: gumtown on November 28, 2022, 06:39:28 AMThe cc# in the Assigns are only for receiving cc# data from an external midi controller.
I am using the GR-55 cc# output to control my SY-1000 and have no issues with some quite complex Assgn setups.
There is no internal connection between the SY  footswitch sent cc# to the midi out, and the Assigns cc#.

I think he means that in the assigns as in my screenshot, he is sending out a CC to Ableton.
Which does work: I use it like this to control various functions on external hardware.
Although I have not experienced the behaviour mentioned above, but then I don't usually switch an internal function and send a CC at the same time.
I'm going to test it though and see what happens.

It is of course possible to receive a CC as a trigger for an internal function (see second screenshot).

It's even able to work as a MIDI through of sorts sending out a different CC or even translate it to a PC value, which is odd but might be useful to someone (see third screenshot).