SY-200 firmware update

Started by ghoi88, January 09, 2022, 05:22:50 PM

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ghoi88

Pls advise if the SMF player will work in Windows 11 to update SY-200 firmware to v1.02

gumtown

Windows SMF Player? I have not seen that to be required for Boss devices since USB ports were installed in 2008.
Firmware updates usually require a USB cable, set the device into update mode, drag and drop in the firmware file to the USB port (seen as a memory device in update mode).
But the SY-200 seems to be a step backwards in updating (in 2022).
And I am surprised that Boss recommends using SMF Player, but can not answer any questions on the update process,
it's like>>
You're on your own buddy, we don't care.

The Boss site instructions for the SY-200

SY-200 SYSTEM PROGRAM ( VER.1.02 )
HOW TO KNOW THE VERSION
Before you start, check the system program version of your SY-200.
Hold down the [ MENU ] button and insert a plug into the INPUT jack.
The power comes on and the version is displayed on the Display.
If this shows the latest version (version 1.12 or later), there's no need to update your SY-200.
After verifying the displayed version, switch off the power.
UPDATE HISTORY
[ Ver.1.02 ] DEC 2021
[ Bug Fix ]
The following bug was fixed.
Parameter operations made by a MIDI control change message simultaneously with a memory switch switch to MEMORY 005 to 127 fail to be applied.
WHAT YOU WILL NEED TO UPDATE YOUR SY-200
SY-200
USB cable
* Provide a cable suitable for connection to the computer you're using.
A personal computer which can run the following SMF players ("UpdSMF")
UpdSMF ( SMF Player for Windows )
UpdSMF ( SMF Player for macOS )
UpdSMF ( SMF Player for macOS / OS X )
Computer (Windows or Mac) equipped with a USB port compliant with USB 2.0 or USB 3.0
CAUTION WHEN PERFORMING THE UPDATE
If you update on the normal mode of SY-200 against the correct procedrue, this update data may destroy the system program.
Never power-off your SY-200 while the update is in progress!
If a power failure or similar accident occurs during the update process, the SY-200 won't be able to start up in normal operating mode. This will require servicing, so you will need to contact Roland service center near you if this occurs.
We regret that we are unable to answer questions regarding the update procedure using this system program. Please perform the update responsibly, following the directions given in this document.
GETTING THE UPDATE FILE
Please open/extract the downloaded "sy200_sys_v102.zip" file on your computer to get the update files in the "sy200_sys_v102" folder.
PROCEDURE FOR THE UPDATE
Follow the steps below to install the system program in the SY-200.
* Never power-off the SY-200 while the update is in progress.
1.  Turn down all knobs all the way.
2.  Connect the SY-200 to the computer.
3.  Hold down the [MEMORY] knob on the SY-200 and insert a plug into the INPUT jack.
     The SY-200's power is turned on, and the message "UPDATER USB" appears on the display.
4.  On the computer, run UpdSMF.
5.  Set MIDI Out Device to the SY-200.
6.  Click [ Path ] (click [ Select... ] for Mac) on "UpdSMF" and specify the location where the update files from SMF Path (SMF Folder for Mac). Then, click the [ OK ] button.
7.  Click [ Scan SMF ] (unnecessary for Mac) to check that the update file is displayed in the file list.
8.  Click Send.
      Sending of the update program starts.
      * It will take about 25 minutes to update. Be sure never to switch off the power before the operation finishes.

      When the message "OK" appears on the display, the update has finished.
9.   Detach the plug from the INPUT jack and turn off the power.
10. Please verify the version number "1.02" with the procedure described in "HOW TO KNOW THE VERSION" part of this document.
     * If the update fails, redo the procedure from step 1.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

gumtown

#2
I found Windows SMF Player on the Roland site here
https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/a-49/updates_drivers/d9e54197-dd1d-4100-b56d-21e4c759f691/

I don't have a SY-200 but do have Windows 11, so I downloaded UpdSmfJ.exe and ran it
starts fine.
The downloaded the SY-200 update file
it downloads as a *.zip archive so once downloaded, right click on it and "EXTRACT ALL"
Use the updater to find the extracted file folder path, set your midi device to the USB SY-200 port (not sure the exact labeled name),
then select SCAN SMF which it will find 30 *.mid files
then press SEND
the update will take about 30 minutes to send, so DO NOT DISTURB THE USB CABLE OR SY-200 POWER.
Just stand back and wait, also disable your screen saver/power saver especially to the uSB port in your power saver settings.

The updater seems to just do a one way blind data send, so there is not verification while uploading, until it is complete and the run restarts.

Currently my "Microsoft GS Wavetable synth"is getting the update, as it is the only current midi device found by my computer.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

gumtown

I find it hilarious the SMF updater sending function has a "CANCEL" button on it,
like,
during mid way through the update, Yes I want a brick please.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

admin

#4
Quote from: gumtown on January 09, 2022, 06:13:17 PM
I found Windows SMF Player on the Roland site here
https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/a-49/updates_drivers/d9e54197-dd1d-4100-b56d-21e4c759f691/

I don't have a SY-200 but do have Windows 11, so I downloaded UpdSmfJ.exe and ran it
starts fine.
The downloaded the SY-200 update file
it downloads as a *.zip archive so once downloaded, right click on it and "EXTRACT ALL"
Use the updater to find the extracted file folder path, set your midi device to the USB SY-200 port (not sure the exact labeled name),
then select SCAN SMF which it will find 30 *.mid files
then press SEND
the update will take about 30 minutes to send, so DO NOT DISTURB THE USB CABLE OR SY-200 POWER.
Just stand back and wait, also disable your screen saver/power saver especially to the uSB port in your power saver settings.

The updater seems to just do a one way blind data send, so there is not verification while uploading, until it is complete and the run restarts.

Currently my "Microsoft GS Wavetable synth"is getting the update, as it is the only current midi device found by my computer.

In year 2000, Roland used same SMF Updater, for VG-88

But they distributed BIN file as a dozen separate  *.mid files. -neglected to inform in their instructions the importance of loading each file individually. In a specific order. And the important step of waiting for full file installation completion before proceeding to the next *.mid file

Of course MS Win 98 default recognized each *.mid file as a MUSIC Player MIDI file ,and would pop up attempting to play the *.mid file as a Music file, add the lame Roland SMF Updater app auto loader always getting the *.mid files out of order  all above issues contributed to bricking the formerly working  VG-88, which lacked a basic boot loader in ROM.

The poorly trained Roland Service would swap VG-88 main Boards under warranty-as nobody their could solder and replace the clobbered 40 pin Intel E28F800B5B70 Flash ROM IC which were corrupted from the poor strategy of user updates, which average users were bricking every VG-88 attempting to install the 2.00 firmware

https://www.separate-strings.co.uk/VG88.pdf

https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/505231/INTEL/E28F800B5B70.html

It's a wonder Roland/Boss remains in the VGuitar marketplace. As they have lost bucketloads of money in this product category which they continue to pursue out of sheer passion

gumtown

Quote from: admin on January 09, 2022, 08:37:31 PM
In year 2000, Roland used same SMF Updater, for VG-88

But they distributed BIN file as a dozen separate  *.mid files. -neglected to inform in their instructions the importance of loading each file individually. In a specific order. And the important step of waiting for full file installation completion before proceeding to the next *.mid file

Of course MS Win 98 default recognized each *.mid file as a MUSIC Player MIDI file ,and would pop up attempting to play the *.mid file as a Music file, add the lame Roland SMF Updater app auto loader always getting the *.mid files out of order  all above issues contributed to bricking the formerly working  VG-88, which lacked a basic boot loader in ROM.

The poorly trained Roland Service would swap VG-88 main Boards under warranty-as nobody their could solder and replace the clobbered 40 pin Intel E28F800B5B70 Flash ROM IC which were corrupted from the poor strategy of user updates, which average users were bricking every VG-88 attempting to install the 2.00 firmware

https://www.separate-strings.co.uk/VG88.pdf

https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/505231/INTEL/E28F800B5B70.html

They could have easily re-flashed the EEPROM using a JTAG programmer, if they had one.
But commercially a whole board replacement from Roland would have been a lot easier (for them) than providing specific device repairs training.
Why pay for a $50 for an easy eeprom reflash when you can supply the whole board for $500 + labor.  ;D
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

ghoi88

Quote from: ghoi88 on January 09, 2022, 05:22:50 PM
Pls advise if the SMF player will work in Windows 11 to update SY-200 firmware to v1.02

Just received my SY-200 and ran SMF Player to update firmware to v1.02 in Windows 11 successfully. As long as we follow closely to update instructions and it should be done without problem and keep our patience while updating since it will take almost 30 minutes.

gumtown

At least you can be reassured that the SY-200 will still be under warranty when Boss release the final SY-200 firmware update.
(tongue in cheek humor on future support)
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

waterpicker

 ??? This is nuts!
Why would they revert to 20 year old tech?
Did this one just go through the cracks?

I'm at v1.00 and the pedal is working fine for my needs, but  ???

pasha811

Quote from: waterpicker on February 06, 2022, 01:20:51 AM
??? This is nuts!
Why would they revert to 20 year old tech?
Did this one just go through the cracks?

I'm at v1.00 and the pedal is working fine for my needs, but  ???

How it performs tracking wise? Just curious!  ;D
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

BROCKSTAR

Quote from: pasha811 on February 06, 2022, 01:38:10 AM
How it performs tracking wise? Just curious!  ;D

When it comes to the sy-1, sy-200, sy-300 and sy-1000 normal input, there's no tracking involved per say, as it's not tracking anything like gk stuff. It's using your 1/4th input jack and real strings as oscillators etc.

pasha811

Quote from: BROCKSTAR on February 06, 2022, 05:15:55 AM
When it comes to the sy-1, sy-200, sy-300 and sy-1000 normal input, there's no tracking involved per say, as it's not tracking anything like gk stuff. It's using your 1/4th input jack and real strings as oscillators etc.

Thanks BROCK! So it should play fine with no issue (albeit poly mode could exhibit some issues with complex chords) ;)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

BROCKSTAR

Quote from: pasha811 on February 06, 2022, 06:56:06 AM
Thanks BROCK! So it should play fine with no issue (albeit poly mode could exhibit some issues with complex chords) ;)

Yes some complex chords can be a little weird but other then that they play great! :D

ghoi88

Quote from: pasha811 on February 06, 2022, 01:38:10 AM
How it performs tracking wise? Just curious!  ;D

Absolutely no tracking issue with zero latency. However, it would be nice to put a compressor after the SY-200 for easier picking on the strings.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: pasha811 on February 06, 2022, 06:56:06 AM
Thanks BROCK! So it should play fine with no issue (albeit poly mode could exhibit some issues with complex chords) ;)

I'd interpret complex chords as anything that's more then a power chord.
A root +fifth works, a third not so much.
Anything involving a second ( small or not doesn't matter ) gags.
That means most chords and intervals are off,
(Even a fourth interval can gag which is odd since it's a fifth the other way.)
Polyphony isn't really a thing with SY series except the SY-1000 hexinput.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

My point was that if you want to complement your rig with some synth solo sound the SY200 might be very good while if you want to explore sound shaping otherwise Sy1000 is the way to go, right?
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Quote from: pasha811 on February 08, 2022, 03:24:03 AM
My point was that if you want to complement your rig with some synth solo sound the SY200 might be very good while if you want to explore sound shaping otherwise Sy1000 is the way to go, right?

I'd say it depends on the rig, but in general the SY-300 gives you much more then the SY-200.
The fx alone is worth the possible price difference though I'm guessing it's easy to find a secondhand SY-300
for about the same price.

I stilluse the SY300 for 1/4 " input with both electric and acoustic guitar.
(and I have a friend that use it with acoustic and electric violin.)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

BROCKSTAR

The effects in sy-300 are more superior than the sy-1000 effects. Especially the delays and reverbs, they just sound better than the watered down versions they added in the sy-1000 probably due to lack of DSP. However they will get the job done!

Brak(E)man

#18
Quote from: BROCKSTAR on February 08, 2022, 05:08:39 AM
The effects in sy-300 are more superior than the sy-1000 effects. Especially the delays and reverbs, they just sound better than the watered down versions they added in the sy-1000 probably due to lack of DSP. However they will get the job done!

With one exception imo the masterdelay.
This is the first delay in a boss or roland multifx that I can twiddle around with the time in real-time without getting unwanted glitches etc.
it's possible to recreate Henry Kaisers square wave looping and other nice weird delay effects.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=30418.msg222634#msg222634
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Bill Ruppert

#19
Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 08, 2022, 01:55:53 AM
I'd interpret complex chords as anything that's more then a power chord.
A root +fifth works, a third not so much.
Anything involving a second ( small or not doesn't matter ) gags.
That means most chords and intervals are off,
(Even a fourth interval can gag which is odd since it's a fifth the other way.)
Polyphony isn't really a thing with SY series except the SY-1000 hexinput.

I have found ways to make the SY-300 very polyphonic and play complex chords.
Sounds great.
Also to my ears using the 1/4 input it sounds better than the SY-1000 1/4 input.
I have to say the SY-300 is one of my favorite Boss/Roland boxes.
Just my two cents.

pasha811

Interesting. I wonder how this is possible  ???
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on February 09, 2022, 03:50:50 PM
I have found ways to make the SY-300 very polyphonic and play complex chords.
Sounds great.
Also to my ears using the 1/4 input it sounds better than the SY-1000 1/4 input.
I have to say the SY-300 is one of my favorite Boss/Roland boxes.
Just my two cents.


I've found a way to 5 years ago ( but not live without compromising the osc ) and I agree about the 1/4 sounding better on SY-300 compared to SY-1000 and both of the SY-300 and 1000 1/4 input sounds better than the sy-1000 hexinput. (with the exception of live polyphony) imho
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 09, 2022, 11:25:38 PM

I've found a way to 5 years ago ( but not live without compromising the osc ) and I agree about the 1/4 sounding better on SY-300 compared to SY-1000 and both of the SY-300 and 1000 1/4 input sounds better than the sy-1000 hexinput. (with the exception of live polyphony) imho

Live polyphony = SY1000 played Live?
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Quote from: pasha811 on February 10, 2022, 04:13:00 AM
Live polyphony = SY1000 played Live?

For me , yes
If Bill Rupert found a way to use the SY-300 live with polyphony I'd happy to hear about it.
Sy-300 is in one way still my favorite synth box.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch