SY-1000- Questions about the Strat and Les Paul models in Bass Mode

Started by luca9583, April 30, 2021, 03:59:50 PM

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luca9583

Hi all

I've got some questions about the Strat and Les Paul models in Bass Mode.

-If you select either of these modelled guitars for bass but keep the pitch in unison with the bass's physical pitch, does it still sound like a guitar and is the response faster because there is now no pitch shifting involved? If so, does it sound close to say, an 8 string guitar, or even a Les Paul Bass?

- How low can you tune the Strat and LP models in bass mode?

- If you were to use a 30" scale baritone physically tuned an octave down from standard guitar in Bass mode to then select the Strat or LP models, does the response change if you use lighter baritone strings compared to if you were using a bass with bass strings?

- If you use a 34" scale bass but select a different scale length in the global settings, does this have an effect on how the Strat and LP models sound? I'm curious if this could be a cool way to change the formant of all the modelled guitar sounds, unless there is a dedicated formant control for each string.

- I'm guessing a GK guitar pickup would work fine for a 6 string baritone in bass mode, or does bass mode expect to see less string crosstalk as expected from a GK bass pickup that has wider string spacing?



admin

Quoteguessing a GK guitar pickup would work fine for a 6 string baritone in bass mode, or does bass mode expect to see less string crosstalk as expected from a GK bass pickup that has wider string spacing?

Review the dimensions of the string to string distance at the Bridge ( sometimes referred as "pitch" - like measuring Gears /saw blades) of your instrument, and match up with the closest match of Hex PUs available
Mandatory reading
https://www.roland.com/V-Guitar/gk3b-requirements.html




Guitar types are here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=41

A few here have a Fender Bass VI and use a narrow GK3 Hex Pickup for Bass Mode on GR-55, SY-1000

gumtown

Quote from: luca9583 on April 30, 2021, 03:59:50 PM
Hi all

I've got some questions about the Strat and Les Paul models in Bass Mode.

-If you select either of these modelled guitars for bass but keep the pitch in unison with the bass's physical pitch, does it still sound like a guitar and is the response faster because there is now no pitch shifting involved? If so, does it sound close to say, an 8 string guitar, or even a Les Paul Bass?
So you are using a 6 string Baritone guitar fitted with a GK-3 pickup, right? Guessing it is tuned B-B.
The modeled guitar in Bass Mode play the range a guitar would, so in bass mode the modelled guitar are + 1 octave relative to the input pitch.

Quote
- How low can you tune the Strat and LP models in bass mode?
the tuning range for each string is +/- 24 half steps (+/- 2 octaves), plus each string can be fine tuned +/- 50 cents.

Quote
- If you were to use a 30" scale baritone physically tuned an octave down from standard guitar in Bass mode to then select the Strat or LP models, does the response change if you use lighter baritone strings compared to if you were using a bass with bass strings?
The string gauge (and the physical guitar characters) will only mildly change the output modeled tone character, when you say "physically tuned down an octave" if that is on the baritone guitar, it would be un-playable with floppy strings, and the neck, without tension, would bend back too far to be playable.
best to tune down an octave in the SY-1000.

Quote
- If you use a 34" scale bass but select a different scale length in the global settings, does this have an effect on how the Strat and LP models sound? I'm curious if this could be a cool way to change the formant of all the modelled guitar sounds, unless there is a dedicated formant control for each string.
changing the scale length setting does not change the tone formant, if it does, it is not noticeable to me.

Quote
- I'm guessing a GK guitar pickup would work fine for a 6 string baritone in bass mode, or does bass mode expect to see less string crosstalk as expected from a GK bass pickup that has wider string spacing?
The GK-3 works alright in bass mode, crosstalk has other factors involved beside string spacing, such as string diameter, vibration offset, and the biggest factor is pickup placement closest to the bridge (less horizontal offset of a picked string closer to the bridge).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

luca9583

Gumtown apologies if i wasn't clear..a 30" baritone physically tuned an octave down from standard tuning is what i meant, which isn't floppy at all.

So to confirm, the guitar models in bass mode, despite being default +1 octave from the physical tuning of the bass, can actually be tuned to unison with the bass itself or lower, while still having the guitarish tone of the modelling. That's what i want to know, if you can make a bass sound like a Les Paul or Strat but tuned at the same octave the bass is physically tuned to.

gumtown

The Strat and LP models tuned down and octave would probably sound more like a Jazz Bass and P Bass.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

luca9583

Quote from: gumtown on April 30, 2021, 09:14:28 PM
The Strat and LP models tuned down and octave would probably sound more like a Jazz Bass and P Bass.

Interesting..i would
have thought that the modelling would make it sound more guitar like but maybe that would depend on the strings used on the bass itself.

Thanks for the info..it's frustrating that Boss hasn't made any of this gear compatible with extended range instruments yet. If you were to use a 7 or 8 string guitar with the SY-1000, you'd be forced to use bass mode to track the physical tuning and be limited to just two guitar models.

fokof

You could also take a Bass model and tune it up one or 2 octaves.
Lots of models = lots of different "tones"

luca9583

Yep. Something i would really like to see would be a formant shifter for each string, so that, without changing pitch, you could give a bass a more guitar like timbre and make a guitar sound more like a bass, similar to the Kemper's formant shifter, or even use it to simulate different string gauges.

I wonder if a future update could allow the same pitch tracking range for both guitar and bass modes.

fokof

Don't hold your breathe on updates.
If they do one , it will probably be to update the font.

luca9583

Quote from: gumtown on April 30, 2021, 09:14:28 PM
The Strat and LP models tuned down and octave would probably sound more like a Jazz Bass and P Bass.

I'm still trying to understand how this works.

If you were to run an extended range guitar (eg a Bass VI tuned like a 5 string bass) with lighter gauge guitar strings into bass mode and select the Les Paul model, wouldn't the modelled result be the sound of a Les Paul tuned down?

Also, there would be a big difference in tone between E1 on a bass gauge string and E1 with a .074 gauge string at 30" scale, so i'm wondering why string gauge wouldn't affect the modelled sound.

Regarding scale length settings, the GP-10 for example, would sound similar to a sliding pickup when changing settings while only hearing the raw Hex output. With that in mind i wonder if manipulating the scale length could have an interesting effect, because the fact that the hardware is asking for that info suggests that it needs that to then compensate for the scale lengths of the various instruments it then models. Maybe manipulating the settings for GK pickup distance from the bridge could also be interesting

Another couple of questions:

Do the guitar models in bass mode allow you to move the modelled pickups around?

If i were to run a baritone tuned to E1 on the lowest string, plus standard guitar tuning on the other 5 strings, and run that into bass mode, what would the highest trackable note be on the instrument before bass mode stops reading the notes? Is it around the 12th fret of a guitar in standard tuning?

fokof

Quote from: luca9583 on May 07, 2021, 07:05:05 AM
If you were to run an extended range guitar (eg a Bass VI tuned like a 5 string bass) with lighter gauge guitar strings into bass mode and select the Les Paul model, wouldn't the modelled result be the sound of a Les Paul tuned down?
In bass mode , the guitar models are tuned an octave higher , so if you play an E1 ( no matter what instrument is plugged in ) you'll hear an E2. When I use my guitar in bass mode , everything is an octave higher.

Quote from: luca9583 on May 07, 2021, 07:05:05 AM
Also, there would be a big difference in tone between E1 on a bass gauge string and E1 with a .074 gauge string at 30" scale, so i'm wondering why string gauge wouldn't affect the modelled sound.
I'll let more knowledgable people answer that one


Quote from: luca9583 on May 07, 2021, 07:05:05 AM
Do the guitar models in bass mode allow you to move the modelled pickups around?
No
There is model in the VB99 called Vari ( wich I always use) but none of that in the SY1000

Quote from: luca9583 on May 07, 2021, 07:05:05 AM
If i were to run a baritone tuned to E1 on the lowest string, plus standard guitar tuning on the other 5 strings, and run that into bass mode, what would the highest trackable note be on the instrument before bass mode stops reading the notes? Is it around the 12th fret of a guitar in standard tuning?
Every guitar models would be an octave higher (In bass mode)
With my Godin GC SA , in bass mode  , I can reach 15th fret high E  , over that , warble starts.

luca9583

Quote from: fokof on May 07, 2021, 07:41:09 AM
In bass mode , the guitar models are tuned an octave higher , so if you play an E1 ( no matter what instrument is plugged in ) you'll hear an E2. When I use my guitar in bass mode , everything is an octave higher.

Yep..what i'd like to know is how that sounds when you tune that back down an octave to match the physical tuning i've got in mind (E1 plus standard tuning)

fokof

Sounds "digital" / processed / grainy  , if you use FX and amp , it covers up a bit.
Sound nothing like the GTR emulations in GTR mode.
Would "do the job" in a band/live context , mixed with all other instruments but as a solo thing :  :P


Same thing with the bass emulation in gtr mode , sounds "meh"/ "bof"  at best.

luca9583

Quote from: fokof on May 07, 2021, 08:03:30 AM
Sounds "digital" / processed / grainy  , if you use FX and amp , it covers up a bit.
Sound nothing like the GTR emulations in GTR mode.
Would "do the job" in a band/live context , mixed with all other instruments but as a solo thing :  :P


Same thing with the bass emulation in gtr mode , sounds "meh"/ "bof"  at best.

Ok that settles it then. Thanks a lot for all the info.

Such a shame that while the unit can track both guitar and bass, it can't apply that pitch tracking range in one comprehensive mode.