Godin Nylon to Steel Acoustic

Started by banksidepoet, December 12, 2020, 05:28:07 AM

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banksidepoet

Hi, all.
My first post on a forum I'm sure to use a lot!  :D

I have recently purchased a Godin Grand Concert SA - stunning, nylon-strung  guitar. I mainly play classical and am interested in using it with the GR-55 to learn composition using MIDI input (maybe Rosegarden, probably Musescore).

However, I wonder if anyone has created a patch that will allow this guitar to sound like a steel-string acoustic. That would be useful for me.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Brent Flash

Welcome to the group banksidepoet!  :)

kenact

There are numerous generic patches already in the GR-55, that will allow your Nylon ACS to sound like an Electric. And there are so many patches created by other members of this forum, which can be found here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=67.0
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

banksidepoet

#3
kenact,

Thanks a lot for your response.

Yes, perhaps I should have gone into more detail. I am fairly familiar with the GR55. I am aware that there are many generic patches that will make my guitar sound like an electric (which I don't need) and I'm aware that there are acoustic patches. But, for me, these are awful. I have seen YouTube's of people with electric Godins using the acoustic built-in patches and they sound great.

I cannot find anyone who has achieved the same authenticity of steel-string acoustic sound from a nylon-strung guitar. I have searched these forums but cannot find any reference to a nylon to steel acoustic patch.

For my nylon Godin the generic patches in the Gr55 are not good at all. I am aware of the many, many tweaks we can make to the setup of the pickups but I haven't got anything like enough experience with it yet. I was hoping for some advice from someone who had made the nylon to acoustic-steel journey already.

Shouldn't matter that much if the source is electric or nylon if the GR55 deals in MIDI... should it??? Obviously does...

Cheers

kenact

It sounds like you want to use modelling to emulate steel string, instead of PCM.

I don't know that you'll find a way to do that, since the attack of nylon strings differs so dramatically from the attack of steel strings.
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

banksidepoet

kenact,

Yes, the attack issue... definitely a lot "softer" and "slower" with nylon.

Could you give me some ideas where to start with the modelling route? I do understand what modelling is in the GR55 (the emulation of equipment / physical environment). What would you look at to begin with?

Cheers

admin

#6
QuoteI cannot find anyone who has achieved the same authenticity of steel-string acoustic sound from a nylon-strung guitar.

And you won't

Because on Roland /Boss VGuitar systems. (i.e. GR-55 COSM Modeling tones ) -the actual Strings are the source oscillators -and String Material type (steel vs nylon) will significantly impact the resulting VGuitar COSM Modeling tones.

Could use the East West Electric Guitar library hosted on a Mac and trigger  via GR-55 Guitar to MIDI function - but suffer latency and prone to mistriggering * (absent on the GR-55 COSM Tones)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MidiGtrVol4--eastwest-midi-guitar-series-volume-4-guitar-and-bass

banksidepoet

admin,

Yes, I'm thinking along those lines but hoping I can "approximate" to the best of the equipment's ability... harden that attack,choose just the right amp, maybe an effect or two (I'm thinking compression...).

I'm a learner and my understanding of tone production is early days.

Any help is appreciated.

admin

Quote from: banksidepoet on December 13, 2020, 01:29:35 PM
admin,

Yes, I'm thinking along those lines but hoping I can "approximate" to the best of the equipment's ability... harden that attack,choose just the right amp, maybe an effect or two (I'm thinking compression...).

I'm a learner and my understanding of tone production is early days.

Any help is appreciated.

Easiest to emulate extreme Metal tones - where guitar type does not matter

chrish

Even going the other way, Steel string to nylon model you can still here a bit of the steel string which actually produces a pretty good hybrid tone.

If you play something on the classical side of things, many people wouldn't be able to hear the difference.

banksidepoet

#10
Thank for the reply Chris.

I am classical before anything else in my guitar playing so my Godin Grand Concert, GR55 and AER Alpha setup is fabulous and I'm totally happy with it (interested in composing and MISI input and the work of Andrew Keeping).

So, the acoustic sound would have been a bonus only. I guess I'm the victim of not, yet, fully understanding MIDI and believing that a MIDI signal could be turned into any audio signal. I need to do more research.

That said, if anyone has come up with an approximation, or just some general "look at these settings" advice, knock yourselves out. I'm thinking stuff like "velocity dynamics", "velocity cut", "play feel"... seems relevant but, at the moment it's stuff I don't really understand. I'm experimenting.

:D

chrish

#11
Many people find that they don't like the disconnect (slight latency) that triggering PCM samples via a guitar pitch to midi provides when triggering acoustic instrument sounds like piano, sax, trumpet, violins, etc. There is also a sameness to the sound when triggering samples.

I'm in the camp that prefers the modeling tech and uses midi triggered samples for pads and ambience.

Modeling provides more feel, less latency and less octave jumping mistriggers as the overtone series of the guitar string "tricks" the pitch to midi system into thinking  that the guitar player just played the octave note.

Others seem to be OK with it and are able to pull the midi thing off.