GR-55 Alt-Tunings

Started by joe himself, December 23, 2019, 09:20:31 AM

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joe himself

Merry Christmas everyone!

I just got my GR-55 and am liking it a lot. I have a problem, though with Alt-Tunings - changing the tuning produces a ring modulator kind of sound.
I have:
Tried the preset tunings as well as manually de-tuning using the User mode
Turned off all effects as well as CTL and pedal assignments

Only the strings with changed tuning has this effect
Also, changing the pitch using Tone ->Pitch Shift produces the same effect.
The factory presets using Alt-Tuning behave the same way.

I suspect that I have a defected unit and I only have a couple of days to return it so I'd appreciate some help with this. Thanks!

admin

Post an MP3



What type Pickup (Piezo, GK-3, ?

Wear headphones connected directly to GR-55 and see if it does it there.

gumtown

What you are hearing is the acoustic ringing out of the strings with the GR-55 product pitch transpose.
If you isolate the acoustic string sound (wear headphones or turn up the amp volume), the acoustic string sound will disappear into the background.

You can also be getting acoustic coupling from the vibrating strings causing harmonic vibrations through the guitar body and through the strap into your body, and eventually to your ears. (surface vibration).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

joe himself

Thanks for the quick get-back.
I just tried the phones but had same same bad results.
I didn't send the mp3 I just recorded because it sounded fine!
I retried the Gr-55 output and it still has the same problem.

joe himself


joe himself

I don't see my last reply so I'll try again.

I get a bad sound out of the headphones and changing the volume doesn't help. I did notice that when I play very softly I don't hear the bad sound. That made me realize that I'm hearing two different sound sources.  Model and original guitar? I do have the Normal Pickup set to off.


admin

Quote from:  philjynx on December 23, 2019, 10:42:24 AM
I can't remember if this is relevant to your specific problem - so if it isn't sorry for the red herring.
Have you set up your pickup distance(s) from bridge & string sensitivity adequately?

NOT relevant as he has a Godin AC3 nylon with RMC Piezo 13 pin

admin

#7
Quote from: joe himself on December 23, 2019, 10:57:45 AM
I don't see my last reply so I'll try again.

I get a bad sound out of the headphones and changing the volume doesn't help. I did notice that when I play very softly I don't hear the bad sound. That made me realize that I'm hearing two different sound sources.  Model and original guitar? I do have the Normal Pickup set to off.



On Godin , Remember to turn Down the Guitar Volume slider and turn up the " Synth " Volume slider



Then Record direct from GR-55 output - no mics

If it sounds OK, then what you are hearing is the unamplified strings - which are actually always quite loud and a different pitch than the GR-55 DSP Alt tuning 

I used sealed ATH-M50X headphones which block the sound from the raw vibrating strings

joe himself

@gumtown
So how can I use Alt-Tunings on my GR-55?
Should I send it back?
Thanks

admin

#9
Quote from: joe himself on December 23, 2019, 11:45:22 AM
@gumtown
So how can I use Alt-Tunings on my GR-55?
Should I send it back?
Thanks

Most play with a loud PA or sealed Headphones - and flat avoid DSP Alt tunings in very small venues or anywhere the audience can hear your unamplified strings

joe himself

"sealed headphones"
Just to be sure we're on the same track, what I am hearing is coming out of the (L-R-Stereo) output of the Gr-55. I'm not talking about the incidental very low sound that comes from my Godin solid body. When I turn up the volume on the GR-55 the dissonant sound increases the same amount as the 'regular' sound. Is that what you thought I meant?

admin

See above - on Godin turn down the Guitar Volume Slider

joe himself

Sorry, I neglected to say in my first post that I do have the Volume slider on my Godin all the way down.

It seems though, that there is a sound source switch somewhere in the internals that I haven't turned off.

joe himself

I've found my problem!

Since I bought the unit I have only used the L(mono) output and it has seemed to work fine but I play a lot of fingerstyle songs in alt tunings. That was a major reason for my buying this. (So I can sell some guitars I keep in different tunings)

Just now I disconnected L(mono) and plugged the cable into the Guitar Out. I set the Master->Other->Guitar Out Source to Modeling.
That solved it. Now I'll have to go back and see what side effects there are in doing that. I already know my guitar tone is better now.

Thanks guys! I have a couple more questions about the manual but I'm too smart to ask for more help today.  ;D

PS In double checking philjynx' suggestion to see if my piezzo settings were correct I tried the GK piezzo settings and the tone was a BIG improvement over Godin's recommendation of Piezzo R. 
I guess it doesn't make any difference now that only modeling is coming out of the Guitar Out.
Thanks Again!

joe himself

OK I'm an idiot. Never mind my last reply -- It still doesn't work.

I still have an alternate tuning voice alongside a voice that is in regular tuning.
Again, my Godin volume is off and I've got the Guitar Out setting to Modeling. Normal PU is off. L(mono) output is unplugged.

Both voices are being sent to my amp.

Guess I had better return it.
Does anyone know if Roland has a phone help desk?
Thanks.

admin

Save all you patches - then
Try a GR-55 factory reset
Roland GR-55 Factory Reset (Initialize)
Article #1712144 Added on Mar 20, 2012 at 3:12 PM
Use the following procedure to clear the GR-55's internal memory and reload its factory settings.

Caution: All User information is lost during a Factory Reset. Be sure to first back up anything you wish to keep before proceeding.

1. Press EDIT.

2. Press the right-hand PAGE button to select the SYSTEM tab.

3. Cursor to "BACKUP/INIT," and then press ENTER.

4. Cursor to "FACTORY RESET," and then press ENTER.

5. Cursor to "OK," and then press ENTER—"FACTORY RESET..." appears in the display.

6. When "PLEASE RESTART" appears, turn the GR-55's power off and back on.

joe himself

I did a factory reset, then loaded DADGAD Crunch @.

Same problem.
Now I can't find the shipping box! (what a day)
But I'll call Roland in the morning.

Thanks again Mr. Admin

admin

#17
QuoteI still have an alternate tuning voice alongside a voice that is in regular tuning.

On GR-55 , for any patch you desire 100% DSP generated Alt tuning  - be sure to disable the NORMAL PICKUP signal here




Quote from: joe himself on December 23, 2019, 02:01:54 PM
I did a factory reset, then loaded DADGAD Crunch @.

Same problem.
Now I can't find the shipping box! (what a day)
But I'll call Roland in the morning.

Thanks again Mr. Admin
Register your Product

then login to your "BACKSTAGE ACCOUNT" and create a Service request for help

https://www.roland.com/backstage/#/login?redirect=%2Fsupport#service_request

Larsson

Quote from: joe himself on December 23, 2019, 10:35:31 AM
I didn't send the mp3 I just recorded because it sounded fine!

Are you absolutely sure, that it's not the sound of the strings, if the recorded mp3 was fine?

If I suspect warbles or something odd behavior like that, I use a basic looper pedal for a simple and quick method to confirm it:
- turn every sound source off, so that there is no sound coming from the device
- turn on only modeled alt tuning (or other thing I suspect is making a weird noise)
- play something and record it with a looper
- stop playing and listen while looper plays it back

98% of the time it's the acoustic sound of the strings in one way or another. I've even had some normal string sound come through to sound isolating headphones when my headphone wire was laying on guitar body..

DreamTheory

Maybe something is set at a very low level by accident? This is not like analog tape, that "bleeds" across channels. I use pretty simple AKG headphones that are hard backed, and they block enough of the acoustic sound of the strings that I am able to concentrate. Hopefully you can stay with GR-55 and find your way. Alt tunings work great for me on GR-55, but to be honest I prefer to use my real acoustic guitar because it produces more "zingy" overtones/ harmonics. If you haven't already tried it, the spider capo is amazing. I like GR-55 Alt tuning for baritone guitar. Let us know if you solve your issue.
electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

JiveTurkey

Quote from: admin on December 23, 2019, 02:21:54 PM
On GR-55 , for any patch you desire 100% DSP generated Alt tuning  - be sure to disable the NORMAL PICKUP signal here



Register your Product

then login to your "BACKSTAGE ACCOUNT" and create a Service request for help

https://www.roland.com/backstage/#/login?redirect=%2Fsupport#service_request

Yes. Turn off the normal pickup in your presets.

plexified

All V Guitar Players need closed headphones that seal the environment. This means your guitar too! I know it sounds super simple and basic, but you have to segregate the processing from the resonant guitar in your hands and close proximity when going to alternate tunings. Or escaping your surroundings. This is a critical investment or tool in your arsenal.

Personally I have saved my own hearing using this tool live in practice close to my drummers. Before In Ears became available. Two amazing selling points of in ears. Protection and control of what you hear.

And then when I got the GR-55 , and thought it was broke, just about every week, until I realized it was user error. I am the greatest opponent to anything digital in my life. Its ALWAYS me, User Error. I start there and solve problems INSTANTLY. Well , maybe not so fast , but eliminating me is a huge first step towards progress.

When we enter this realm , we are in a Container. Remember that. Look within. All will unfold.

mooncaine

Very true. I use Sony MDR-V6 phones, and they are not totally closed. I must turn up volume in my phones to cover up the sound of the guitar I'm wearing.

Possibly related: I got a lap steel for Xmas (1939 Kalamazoo 6 string in good condition!). It seemed louder, at times, than others, even though it wasn't plugged in.

The peghead was touching a leather sofa armrest. Apparently it's a somewhat sonic sofa.

So, check if your guitar is touching *anything*, even the cable of your headphones (because vibrations can transmit thru that, too).

DreamTheory

electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

joe himself

Hey thanks everybody for your ideas. I had in-laws visit for a few days and haven't had time to work more on my problem. (I told you things were going from bad to worse).   :D

BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY THAT THE DISSONANCE I HEAR IS COMING FROM THE SPEAKERS OF MY AMP. (headphones will not fix my problem)

Last I posted I was sure I had a defective unit but now I think there is a switch somewhere I'm missing. That sounds impossible as I write this because I've spent so much time with my head buried in the manual.

This morning I loaded the Deepwater(open E) factory patch, turned off PCM 1& 2 and the heavy effects to listen to the modeled guitar --- the Alt-tuning worked as intended (no dissonance)! (GREAT GOOD NEWS) Then I loaded Captain Nylon and changed the tuning and *bingo* back to the same bad sounds I heard before. My problem is due the NORMAL PU not being turned off even though I make the settings.

Here is what happened on  Captain Nylon:

'GUITAR OUT' (ONLY) IS PLUGGED IN
   Patch master AND system master output set to BOTH
      TONE MODEL and Normal PU both turned OFF
         *Normal PU volume works
         *MODEL volume doesn't work - always on
      TONE MODEL and Normal PU both turned ON   
         *SAME RESULTS
   
   
   
   Patch master AND system master output set to MODELING
      TONE MODEL and Normal PU both turned OFF
         *Normal PU volume doesn't work
         *MODEL volume doesn't work - always on
      TONE MODEL and Normal PU both turned ON   
         *SAME RESULTS
   
   Patch master AND system master output set to NORMAL PU
      TONE MODEL and Normal PU both turned OFF
         *Normal PU volume works
         *MODEL volume doesn't work - always on
      TONE MODEL and Normal PU both turned ON   
         *SAME RESULTS

So my NORMAL PU volume seems to be working fine but I can't turn off (or increase) the volume of the modeled tone. When I get home I'll compare the two patches and find what setting are different. I'll post back tomorrow am with the results. Thanks again!