GP-10 - A live-rig editing and foot controller approach for the GP-10.

Started by carlb, January 15, 2019, 04:19:56 PM

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carlb

The GP-10 is a great - if limited - instrument/amp modeler and multi-effects unit. Issues that I've run into with it for live use are toward live patch editing and live foot control. As supplied, the GP-10 requires floor-crouching to edit patches - lousy especially with a guitar strapped around your shoulders. Foot control is limited to 4 unlabeled "CTL" switches (less if an outboard expression pedal is needed). Switching between patches is sequentially ordered only: unless two patches are numerically adjacent, a "multi-stomp tap-dance" is needed to get to the patch you require. Lastly, you have to remember where the desired patch is in relation to the patch you are on, or suffer further delays while "tap-dancing."

The above aren't ideal for a giggable guitar rig. For that I want: off-the-floor patch editing, single-stomp access to patches (with easily seen patch labels), and control of multiple effects per patch (each with custom labeling based upon the patch).

A collection of three add-ons solve the above issues for me: The Primova MIDX-20, a Morningstar MC6 MIDI foot controller, and a Tech 21 Mongoose foot controller.


gigrig2 by Carl B, on Flickr

The MIDX-20 connects the GP-10 to MIDI devices. The MC6 provides per-patch, custom labeled effects control from six foot switches. The Mongoose provides 1-stomp patch changes directly among 5 patches (twenty more with two stomps, many more with three or more stomps).

The gig setup that I've begun using for the GP-10 and the above is as follows:

1) Get the GP-10 off the floor. Put it at a height which you can readily edit patches. I pair the GP-10 to a small self-powered PA speaker, and mount the GP-10 to the top of that (cable ties). Those attach to a luggage dolly, which forms the back-bone of the overall gig-rig.

2) Cable-tie the MIDX-20 to the gig-rig, and provide power with a clean source. I've found that a single Snark SA-1 power supply cleanly powers the GP-10, the MIDX-20, the MC6, and an EHX Key-9. Use a 2.1mm barrel-plug daisy-chain type adapter to connect the Snark to the above.

3) Connect the MIDX-20 to the GP-10 via a USB AB cable, connect the MIDX-20 to the MC6 via a USB AB cable. (The MIDX-20 powers the MC6 via USB.) I've found that a 3 meter USB AB right-angle cable works nicely here. Connect the Mongoose MIDI-Out to the MC6 MIDI-In via a short MIDI cable. (The Mongoose is 9V battery driven for 200 operating hours, so no power cable is needed.)

4) Use the Mongoose to change between GP-10 patches. A patch change is one-stomp for up to 5 patches, and then accessed by banks of patches beyond that.  Use a label maker to affix labels for patch names above each switch (two banks of 5 patches each easily fit). Patch change messages go from the Mongoose, to the MC6, then up to the GP-10.

5) Use the MC6 to switch up to six effects/models for each patch. The MC6 changes directly to a given set of six foot switch controls based upon the patch change that the Mongoose sent. Each set ('bank') of six foot switches is dedicated to a GP-10 patch. The MC6 briefly displays the patch name, then shows the names of each foot switch next to its switch.

Programming the MC6 is either via a very intuitive web-based editor, or less intuitively by directly pressing its buttons in prescribed ways as described in the MC6 manual. (The latter is surprisingly easy however, I've begun using that exclusively as I don't have to go grab a laptop. After using the web-app to get the hang of setting up the MC6, look up the direct-editing instructions.)

You'll coordinate the GP-10 patch names with those for the MC6. You'll setup the MC6 to provide CC messages for each button press (and display names for them), and setup the GP-10 patches to respond correctly to the CC messages (via GP-10 Assign Settings). You'll setup bank names on the MC6 to correspond to your GP-10 patch names.

And that's it.

Note: A second MC6 could be used instead of the Mongoose to provide the Program Change Messages. Pros would be many-more custom patch labels easily accommodated, and LCD-lit too. Cons are extra expense and you have to get power to that second MC6 somehow. (A 5-pin to 7-pin MIDI cable to power both MC6es is possible, but I found that more klugey than practical.)

Bonus: You can add up to six expression pedals to the above rig, or ten foot switches for further patch control. Or some combination of pedals and foot switches. Plus the CTL 3/4 controlling another two switches or expression pedal.

BUT ---- You'll find that real-world limitations are imposed by the eight maximum Assign Settings and two external CTL 3/4 settings supported by the GP-10.

Extra Bonus: The MC6 and Mongoose easily fit in the carrying bag of a Peak SMS-20 folding music stand along with the stand. This is just gig-rig beauty.


gigrig1 by Carl B, on Flickr

I hope this is helpful for anyone wanting to setup a similar scheme for live control and edit of a GP-10 - or any other MIDI-controlled modeler/processor.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Cups

I'm trying to squeeze more out of my GP-10 with more outboard processing but I should just get a Midx-20 and simplify.
You certainly inspired.

roachone

Very nice setup! The GP-10 is the little engine that could! Wish Boss would have made a bigger brother of it.

alexmcginness

Quote from: carlb on January 15, 2019, 04:19:56 PM

1) Get the GP-10 off the floor. Put it at a height which you can readily edit patches.

Yup. This is why I love the VG-99. Pedals are where they are most effective...on the floor...and the perimeter adjustments at waist height.

Im gonna replace my  FC-50 with The Mongoose and add the functionality of the Morningstar as well for extra changes inside my 99 patches. Thanks again for this post.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

carlb

Quote from: roachone on January 16, 2019, 10:15:32 AM
Very nice setup! The GP-10 is the little engine that could! Wish Boss would have made a bigger brother of it.

I'm hoping a new 13-pin GP-1000 from Boss. VG-99 has a kid with the GT-1000. But I worry that it will be a big footprint, and won't physically fit in well with my present gig-rig scheme. I may be staying with a GP-10 for a long time to come, which isn't terrible for me.

Quote from: alexmcginness on January 16, 2019, 02:31:01 PM
Yup. This is why I love the VG-99. Pedals are where they are most effective...on the floor...and the perimeter adjustments at waist height.

Im gonna replace my FC-50 with The Mongoose and add the functionality of the Morningstar as well for extra changes inside my 99 patches. Thanks again for this post.

For the VG-99, I wish they had provided a 7-pin MIDI In to provide phantom power. The MC6 can use phantom power, so a 5 pin to 7 pin MIDI cable with a 2.1mm socket to grab power will work (although it was a bit klugey for me). Depending on your other pedals, a 2.1mm plug splitter-cable can probably tap any power needed directly from the VG-99's adapter.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker