Working on replicating Roland 24-pin cables

Started by Bratwurst, April 25, 2018, 07:02:18 PM

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Bratwurst

Hi, a friend asked me to try my hand at making new 24-pin cables, loaning some original pieces for me to examine and copy. I'm not a musician but I have electronics experience and like to tinker. I hope there is interest in the end product. I've modeled the heads in cad with a digital caliper and already have an idea of how to proceed. More pictures to come.


jassy

Interesting.
Im a long time GR300 dreamer but the lack of 24 pin cables and 13 pin to 24 pin converters (I would want to use it with my regular 13 pin equiped guitars) cooled my enthusiasm about purchasing one, so if someone is making these devices he would have my interest.
Keep us informed.

admin

#2
FWIW-
Making the Roland 24-pin connector for the GR-300
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11980.msg86836#msg86836


GuitarBuilder

"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Bratwurst



Printed slices to test alignment and then depth, had to adjust some dimensions for each iteration. But a good proof of concept I think.  8)

Quote from: jassy on April 26, 2018, 06:21:33 AM
Interesting.
Im a long time GR300 dreamer but the lack of 24 pin cables and 13 pin to 24 pin converters (I would want to use it with my regular 13 pin equiped guitars) cooled my enthusiasm about purchasing one, so if someone is making these devices he would have my interest.
Keep us informed.

I understand that the 13-pin connectors are much more common and see the cables plus DIN connectors for sale, are they available as panel mount fixtures? As I'm not familiar with the equipment, what gender would each end need to be?

admin

#5
Quote from: Bratwurst on April 27, 2018, 08:03:17 AM


Printed slices to test alignment and then depth, had to adjust some dimensions for each iteration. But a good proof of concept I think.  8)

I understand that the 13-pin connectors are much more common and see the cables plus DIN connectors for sale, are they available as panel mount fixtures? As I'm not familiar with the equipment, what gender would each end need to be?


https://packetradio.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=706


Synth-LynX jacks with custom crimps to secure the DIN13 plug's Shell ground ( crucial) 


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8888.0






IMHO - recreating a clone of the dielectric rectangle from the original 24 pin connectors is 1/3 the battle.




The battle will be locating suitable male & female electrical contact pins that are equivalent to the T.M.W rectangular contact pins that are also Wee / RoHS ( lead free) that will snap in, fit and function in your clone of the  T.M.W -TAJIMI  original 24 pin connector

Here is a link to the OEM - but they ceased making rectangular connectors
   
https://ssl.tajimi.co.jp/




The GK-1 ( sold with GM-70 ) used a similar smaller profile 24 pin connector from Hosiden
http://www.hosiden.co.jp/en/
https://www.joness.com/gr300/gk1_kit.htm





might search here
http://www.edac.net/
https://belfuse.com/resources/Cinch%20Connectors%20Catalog.pdf

Bratwurst


admin

Look forward to your progress!

I can use four!

GuitarBuilder

Fantastic! I'd be interested in buying several.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Bratwurst





I feel that this is now something I can comfortably put out there for use, granting room for unforeseen revisions if necessary. I've been working on this project for a little over a month, and have enough material to make four cables for now, fifteen foot long each. I would like to have people try them out before I got ahead of myself and made too many more so I can get feedback, though I've already sent a few versions to my friend and the latest seemed to work great for him. Should I start a sale thread or would it be OK to just invite PMs here as a sort of trial production?  I don't want to overstep the forum rules at all. I was thinking $75 per cable shipped, one per person for now, and I'm pretty sure I can ship the fifteen foot lengths at 1 pound rate USPS. Longer, would go into the 2 pound rate range, but I can ship several cables in a flat rate A box at 2 pounds total at that point.

Quote from: admsustainiacIMHO - recreating a clone of the dielectric rectangle from the original 24 pin connectors is 1/3 the battle.

The insulating blocks look simple but they are deceptive! I spent way more time getting everything modeled right than it took me to find appropriate headers. It takes a full day to print both ends of the cable, from morning to evening, as the tracks inside have little tolerance for error. Each pin is completely isolated from the other with little risk of shorting inside.

I did try very hard to incorporate plastic latches into the cable hood, but it's such a thin clasp that it wasn't meant to be made out of anything but metal for durability concerns. Laser-cut/CNC steel could be done but that gets expensive. I already have to make the male guide pin myself. It's currently steel but I'm looking into using aluminum which is easier to shape. The hoods as they are now though, are a very snug fit.

Quote from: admsustainiacThe battle will be locating suitable male & female electrical contact pins that are equivalent to the T.M.W rectangular contact pins that are also Wee / RoHS ( lead free) that will snap in, fit and function in your clone of the  T.M.W -TAJIMI  original 24 pin connector

Even without the exact replacement pins, substitutions can be made to work. Dual wipe sockets on a perpendicular PCB at a certain recessed depth could be used for the female end just like how square pin headers were used for that DIY male that you linked to. In the original Roland connector, only two points on the pin really seem to matter for contact, the top/bottom, so long as you take that into consideration you could use anything that will mate.

The cable used is 25 conductor 24AWG, with the extra conductor left intact for future potential repairs. I tied the shield drain to pin 3 (ground) on the male end, leaving it disconnected on the female end to avoid a ground loop. Unless anyone feels I should do different, please mention so! I am also wondering what the ideal general length should be, fifteen feet? Twenty? Thirty? Please let me know.

GuitarBuilder

Any chance you might develop the bulkhead mount versions?
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Bratwurst

Yes, definitely, I've got models of the original pieces that I'll be referencing when I get to it:


drkam6

This is of special interest for me. I own 2 GR-300's, 1 GR-500 (and their respective guitars), 2 US-2 boxes plus other assorted 24-pin hardware. Although I fortunately have enough cables for them, it would be great to have more. I will keep an eye on these posts, thanks.

jim-analog




Greetings,

Great work! Yes, I'd be interested in being one of your beta testers for the cable assembly at your price.

  Also, I'm even more interested in the chassis mount bulkhead end...........if you can get that fabricated, it would go a long way to helping me complete some projects without either going to a different standard (25 pin parallel printer cables) or stealing parts from working units to use on my experimental projects. Please keep us updated and best of luck!!!

Regards, Jim

chrish

Jim, If you can't get a hold of him here you could try to contact him through reverb.com where he's been selling those 24 pin cables.

https://reverb.com/item/20027071-24-pin-clone-guitar-synth-cable-gr-300-gr-500-gr-700-for-roland-ibanez-16-feet

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: jim-analog on March 08, 2019, 02:36:58 PM


Greetings,

Great work! Yes, I'd be interested in being one of your beta testers for the cable assembly at your price.

  Also, I'm even more interested in the chassis mount bulkhead end...........if you can get that fabricated, it would go a long way to helping me complete some projects without either going to a different standard (25 pin parallel printer cables) or stealing parts from working units to use on my experimental projects. Please keep us updated and best of luck!!!

Regards, Jim

I've been using his cables for quite a few months now and they work very well.  I also have two experimental cables with 24-pin connectors at one end and DB25 at the other end.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

jim-analog



  Greetings,

Chrish, thanks for the note; I'll try to contact him there.

Guitarbuilder, That's exactly what I'd like to have made; 24 to DB25 x 2. Likely for the same experimental reasons as you.

Regards, Jim


strengdal3

Guitar synth man

jim-analog



Greetings,

I was able to contact Andre via Reverb; thanks Chrish! He's willing and able to do any lengths, connector types, etc..  I forgot to inquire if he made any headway on the chassis mount Roland 24 pin, I will next time I write him and will advise everyone here what I find out.

GuitarBuilder............what gender DB25 connectors are you using? I was thinking one of each, as the "multi-interface box" I'm building would actually have a  "24 pin" input and output (well several, but....) on DB25.

I've initially requested one male and one female R-24 connector terminated cables, but didn't specify the DB25 end yet.  If you also used Roland M and F ends, which gender DB25 did you mate with them? FWIW, general audio standard is that male pins initiate signal flow, so source output is male, destination input is female; on and on down the line.

As an aside for the younger members here, there is an old road crew saying to make this easy to remember in complex remote hookups; "Fxxk the Truck".  The "truck" is the remote destination for all the mic lines originating at the stage on a remote recording/broadcast set up. Guess it's no longer PC, but it's been around a lot longer than I have.

Also, Andre asked what pin outs I'd like on the DB25 end. He suggested pin 1 to pin 1..... what has anyone else used?

It would seem to make good sense to have input/output genders and pin outs standardized, and am curious what others are doing. I think this could really help in the long term if any potential trade evolves with new or modified R24 based products.

Thanks to everyone for any and all input!


Regards, Jim


Quote from: GuitarBuilder on March 11, 2019, 04:06:27 PM
I've been using his cables for quite a few months now and they work very well.  I also have two experimental cables with 24-pin connectors at one end and DB25 at the other end.

admin

#19


Typically pin 13 on DB-25 is the spare or another Ground

jim-analog


Greetings,

Thank you for the DB25 pin out diagram!

  In regard to connection of a DB25 to a R24 connector, do you use a pin 1:1, 2:2, etc. scheme or something different?

Best, Jim


Quote from: admin on April 21, 2019, 07:02:33 PM

Typically pin 13 on DB-25 is the spare or another Ground

jim-analog



Greetings,

  I just wanted to update anyone looking for an R24 cable of some type. I was able to get in contact with Andre at the Reverb link a few posts above. He was willing and able to make cables with his new R24 connectors and in my case the other end DB25s at what I consider a very fair price. At this time, he has not yet finished development work on a bulk head R14 connector.  If you're in need of anything, get in touch with him thru Reverb. If I receive any update on the bulk head version, I'll advise here.

Regards, Jim

pinkjimiphoton

if you're the chap selling these on ebay for 99$, well done. i got one, have been using it for over a month of gigs now, seems to perform and work perfectly. the one caveat i noticed was its easy for the casing around the plug to deform a bit if its under pressure, but other than that, great piece of kit.


Quote from: Bratwurst on April 29, 2018, 09:54:13 AM




I feel that this is now something I can comfortably put out there for use, granting room for unforeseen revisions if necessary. I've been working on this project for a little over a month, and have enough material to make four cables for now, fifteen foot long each. I would like to have people try them out before I got ahead of myself and made too many more so I can get feedback, though I've already sent a few versions to my friend and the latest seemed to work great for him. Should I start a sale thread or would it be OK to just invite PMs here as a sort of trial production?  I don't want to overstep the forum rules at all. I was thinking $75 per cable shipped, one per person for now, and I'm pretty sure I can ship the fifteen foot lengths at 1 pound rate USPS. Longer, would go into the 2 pound rate range, but I can ship several cables in a flat rate A box at 2 pounds total at that point.

The insulating blocks look simple but they are deceptive! I spent way more time getting everything modeled right than it took me to find appropriate headers. It takes a full day to print both ends of the cable, from morning to evening, as the tracks inside have little tolerance for error. Each pin is completely isolated from the other with little risk of shorting inside.

I did try very hard to incorporate plastic latches into the cable hood, but it's such a thin clasp that it wasn't meant to be made out of anything but metal for durability concerns. Laser-cut/CNC steel could be done but that gets expensive. I already have to make the male guide pin myself. It's currently steel but I'm looking into using aluminum which is easier to shape. The hoods as they are now though, are a very snug fit.

Even without the exact replacement pins, substitutions can be made to work. Dual wipe sockets on a perpendicular PCB at a certain recessed depth could be used for the female end just like how square pin headers were used for that DIY male that you linked to. In the original Roland connector, only two points on the pin really seem to matter for contact, the top/bottom, so long as you take that into consideration you could use anything that will mate.

The cable used is 25 conductor 24AWG, with the extra conductor left intact for future potential repairs. I tied the shield drain to pin 3 (ground) on the male end, leaving it disconnected on the female end to avoid a ground loop. Unless anyone feels I should do different, please mention so! I am also wondering what the ideal general length should be, fifteen feet? Twenty? Thirty? Please let me know.

Bratwurst

Someone in France bought one of my cables and then informed me it wouldn't work. Somehow their GR707 has a female connector instead of the usual male. Does anyone know anything about this? My thoughts are someone swapped the genders for whatever reason and then sold it. He states that he doesn't even remember the original cable that came with it when he bought it, so maybe it never came with one.

So anyway, tonight I made a male connector for him to swap out the female one so he can finally use the cable I sent him...




admin

#24



There was a 1982 Boss SCC-700 Computer controlled FX pedal board switching system that employed that type 24 pin cable


I figure some Euro Roland repair shop installed the 24 pin female jack from a Boss  SCC-700 to get the G-707 guitar back together
best info on GR-700 is here

https://www.joness.com/gr300/G-707.html