Where is the level control for the rear Guitar In socket?

Started by Christoplast, March 04, 2018, 07:30:39 AM

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Christoplast

Until recently, I had not tried plugging a non-GK guitar into the rear 1/4 jack. Now that I have, the results have been surprisingly good. However, I cannot figure out how to adapt the level of the guitar being injected into FX Chain A or Chain B. The Signal Flow chart in the manual appears to show Guitar In as a switched alternative to the 13-pin's Normal PU (and I presume that the switch is in the jack socket and operated by plugging in the guitar, as I can't find any separate physical switch, or logical switch for that matter). The chart does not explicitly show any level adjustment, however. In VG-99 Edit, the Mix Level - Normal Pickup parameter on each of COSM Guitar A and B that I have successfully used to adjust the level of the normal pickup via 13-pin GK does not seem to have any effect when the input comes via Guitar In. Can anybody tell me what I am missing, please?

Brent Flash

Page 34 in the user manual may help. It has been a while so I am trying to remember what may be giving you this problem.

Brent Flash

The switch for the GUITAR INPUT is in the SYSTEM GK settings. When you set the GK CONNECTION to AUTO it will shut off the GUITAR INPUT when a GK cable is plugged in. When you set it to OFF it will turn the GUITAR INPUT on and if I am remembering right, when you set the GK CONNECTION to ON it will let you use both the GUITAR INPUT and the GK input ant the same time.

Christoplast

Thanks, Brent. I'm not having any problem getting it to switch on, I'm only unable to adjust the level between A and B. In practice, it seems that I'll just have to work around it by adjusting levels at other points in the two FX chains - there's plenty of those, of course. Initially, it just seemed odd that there is no level control.

sixeight

The level control for regular guitars is on page 7 of COSM guitar A or B. It is labeled Normal PU (F2).

admin

Quote from: sixeight on March 05, 2018, 08:22:13 AM
The level control for regular guitars is on page 7 of COSM guitar A or B. It is labeled Normal PU (F2).


How to use Normal PU sounds and make the GK-3 3-way switch work with the VG-99

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=16759.0



Christoplast

The Normal Pickup control works fine for the normal pickup signal entering via the GK 13-pin, but it doesn't seem to work at all when the 1/4in rear Guitar In socket is used. That is, if I set that control to zero in each channel A and B, I still hear the normal signal, and it is processed by everything in FX chains A and B. This somewhat surprised me, because the Signal Flow chart in the user manual shows Guitar In as interchangeable with Normal PU. I'm taking it that the Signal Flow diagram simplifies the real situation. As with so many things, once you figure out how it actually behaves in practice, you can get the result you want.

Brent Flash

Quote from: Christoplast on March 05, 2018, 09:46:54 AM
The Normal Pickup control works fine for the normal pickup signal entering via the GK 13-pin, but it doesn't seem to work at all when the 1/4in rear Guitar In socket is used. That is, if I set that control to zero in each channel A and B, I still hear the normal signal, and it is processed by everything in FX chains A and B. This somewhat surprised me, because the Signal Flow chart in the user manual shows Guitar In as interchangeable with Normal PU. I'm taking it that the Signal Flow diagram simplifies the real situation. As with so many things, once you figure out how it actually behaves in practice, you can get the result you want.
Can I ask you what output you are using?

admin

#8
Quote from: Christoplast on March 05, 2018, 09:46:54 AM
The Normal Pickup control works fine for the normal pickup signal entering via the GK 13-pin, but it doesn't seem to work at all when the 1/4in rear Guitar In socket is used. That is, if I set that control to zero in each channel A and B, I still hear the normal signal, and it is processed by everything in FX chains A and B. This somewhat surprised me, because the Signal Flow chart in the user manual shows Guitar In as interchangeable with Normal PU. I'm taking it that the Signal Flow diagram simplifies the real situation. As with so many things, once you figure out how it actually behaves in practice, you can get the result you want.

To enable the rear normal guitar input on VG-99, Toggle the Autoconnect control - re move the GK 13 pin cable too

Christoplast

@Brent: I am using the Sub Out into a desk (and/or Main Out/L to a guitar amp). FWIW, there is no difference in the way these behave in response to Guitar In. That is, they work fine, providing you set levels at an appropriate point in Chain A and/or B.

szilard

The signal flow diagram doesn't show any gain control for guitar in. I'd start the fx chain with sub eq if required.



Christoplast

I'm not using the VG-99's USB Audio at all. (This is because of the "one device" constraint in ASIO and I want to carry on using my Quad-Capture).

szilard

Guitar In is above the red box ;) That was just a signal flow diagram that was available.

Brent Flash

#13
Quote from: Christoplast on March 05, 2018, 11:26:11 AM
@Brent: I am using the Sub Out into a desk (and/or Main Out/L to a guitar amp). FWIW, there is no difference in the way these behave in response to Guitar In. That is, they work fine, providing you set levels at an appropriate point in Chain A and/or B.
I had to go dig my VG out of moth balls to refresh my memory on how I used the GUITAR IN. I was asking about the output because if you use the digital out for example you can have it output from various locations. I was still thinking that the NORMAL PU level would adjust the GUITAR IN level and it does not.

Anyway after digging it out and firing it up I started to remember how it worked. When using the GUITAR IN the VG acts like a normal guitar rig in that you would adjust levels with the guitar volume (real guitar volume not on the VG), FX volumes, and amp volumes on A CHANNEL and B CHANNEL. The CHAIN section lets you pick the order that you want everything in. Hope this helps.

Christoplast

Yes. Thanks for that. But forgive my curiosity - why did you have to dig out your VG-99? Have you replaced it with something else and, if so, what and why?

Brent Flash

Quote from: Christoplast on March 05, 2018, 11:43:53 PM
Yes. Thanks for that. But forgive my curiosity - why did you have to dig out your VG-99? Have you replaced it with something else and, if so, what and why?
I have not replaced it as the go to tool for transposing, harmony, and a long list of features it has. It is like a studio with everything you always wanted in it. In my book it is still the greatest guitar tool ever invented.

The reason I had to dig it out is I retired from the music industry 9 years ago. Now if I play I usually grab an acoustic that is nearby.

Christoplast

Aah, I see. That is the industry's loss, I'm certain.

Smash

Quote from: Brent Flash on March 06, 2018, 08:04:57 AM
. Now if I play I usually grab an acoustic that is nearby.

Me too. I just cannot be bothered with the faff of plugging everything in, turning it all on . Then pissing around with patch settings. It's partly what's drawing me toward a Katana....

I think we tend to go in cycles - get the most flexible all singing tech then crave simplicity.....then "if only it did that" and bang, back in tech mode! :D

sixeight

Quote from: Smash on March 07, 2018, 07:34:27 AM
It's partly what's drawing me toward a Katana....

Just beware of the sneaky amps in the Katana. They may sneak up on you and complicate things ;D.