Electro-Harmonix is Beating Up On Other Advanced Guitar Tech Companies

Started by Rhcole, October 28, 2017, 02:10:02 PM

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Rhcole

So, I just reviewed the EHX Superego+ elsewhere on this site. It's an outstanding product. Thing is, if you combine the SE+ with, say, the Synth9 and some kind of multi-FX doodad, you might be done with your guitar synth needs for the time being- at least if you don't require MIDI. EHX doesn't sell the kind of all-encompassing solutions of a few other companies but when you put two or three of their gizmos together you have some serious firepower.

Good for them. But, it makes me a bit sad. Come on, Roland, you were numero uno for years and years in the guitar synth arena. Nobody would even come into the ring with you, you dominated the space. Back when EHX was essentially rebooting after going out of business, Roland chased Yamaha, Korg, Casio, and everyone else who dared enter the guitar synth space out of the game. It might have been a tiny market but it was THEIRS, damnit!

Strymon and Eventide make high-end, wonderful devices. But they have defined their barriers pretty clearly, staying within the boundaries of advanced mod and time FX.

And Fishman is a worthy contender with the FTP, but it's a product for a different set of needs then what EHX is doing. EHX is looking the everyman guitar player straight in the eyes and saying "You don't need to buy all of that complicated MIDI or 13 pin crap! Here, plug your guitar in right here, step on this, now doesn't that sound like a synthesizer to YOU?"

And they are winning at it.

Sure, there are a few interesting boutique manufacturers, Pigtronix, Earthquaker, but EHX has to be several times their size all combined.

There is something else going as well. I have reviewed EHX boxes over and over again, and I always complain about the pitch shifts with their glitchiness and poor tracking. If it can't play a minor 7th cleanly then get it out of here, to my way of thinking.

I plugged the Superego+ in, went right to the pitch shift effect, played my minor 7th chord and... it was pretty good sounding with an octave up...
I didn't believe it. I started playing crazy complex jazz chords, dissonant intervals and the like into it.
OK, not absolutely perfect, but I just had to admit- it was the best I have ever heard through a 1/4" cable.

Somewhere, somehow they are LISTENING TO ME, and other players. Wow, really?? I imagine Bill Ruppert gives them an earful here and there. (One of the biggest mistakes Roland ever made was ignoring Bill's offer to help them, but then, we know that.)

See, I'm used to Roland UTTERLY IGNORING our suggestions. Antares, COMPLETELY DISCOUNTING Elantric's feedback about the ATG-1. Gibson- well, let's not even bring them up!  8)

Mike Matthews of EHX is getting pretty old and he likes to smoke stinky cigars. And nobody could accuse him of always having good taste or getting it right (anybody besides me remember EHX's promotion with "Bandaid Girl"? Yikes, I wish I had THAT poster!). But,I think we should hope his body parts keep working awhile longer because if he keeps pumping these boxes out at a regular pace like he is doing, he is going to be IT, baby!

Roland reps keep promising cool new goodies for the guitar synth and 13 pin space. Talk is cheap guys! Show us what you got!

aliensporebomb

I think Bill Ruppert having the ear helps especially since Bill is alumni here and he wants a lot of the same things we want. 

Some of the new ideas they have are really great at EHX.  The more new things, the better - they keep raising the bar.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

vanceg

Heheh - I'm so used to "clickbait" that I thought this was going to be a posting about how "awful" EHX is for somehow discrediting other makers of advanced guitar tech.  I thought to myself "gee, that doesn't sound like EHX".  But, indeed, it's just decrying the fact that other companies aren't really coming out with as many neat new products which push 'creative guitar processing' or synth guitar forward.  Happy to see that this was closer to a positive post than a negative one.
Yeah - I agree - I'd sure like to see more products coming out in the general "guitar synth" or "creative guitar processing" arena, but I LIKE the fact that more products are being developed by companies OTHER than Roland.  Like just about any company, Roland has a slant, a philosophy, an 'approach' that guides their overall development.  I have always found Roland's approach to be fairly "restrictive" , or even "prescriptive" - by this I mean that Roland's products don't allow me to push their own boundaries, 'misuse' them and create may "unexpected" sounds. They tend to "lead" users to create within fairly limited "boundaries".   Now, I'm ABSOLUTELY not saying that one cannot create unique, personalized sounds with Roland gear. Nonono not at all.  But rather that pushing Roland products to the point of 'misuse' is often not as possible as it is with some other more "creatively" oriented companies.  An example of this general concept is:  if there is a tremolo speed setting on a Roland product, it would typically range from about .25hz to maybe 10hz...And that's a TOTALLY useful and logical range for a tremolo.  But on an Eventide product you might be able to set that range from .10 to 10,000Hz, essentially turning the tremolo into a AM "ring modulator". 
Companies like EHX, or even Eventide, and surely many of the boutique companies, tend, in general to allow users a greater range of freedom to "mess up" and arent' as 'prescriptive' in how their products are "supposed" to be used.

This is a WIDE generalization,  and  I am SURE many contrary examples can be found. But it is a generalization I've notices for 30+ years and one I'd stand by.  And, it makes me say "I wish more companies OTHER than Roland would step into this marketplace more often and create products for 'creative guitar processing and guitar synth'".

chrish

Quote "But, it makes me a bit sad. Come on, Roland, you were numero uno for years and years in the guitar synth arena. "


I kind of like the VG 99. Has anyone really made a guitar synth that can top that relatively old tech?

So Roland is still holding at number one, lmo.

So let's see who has the number 2 spot.

That would be Roland again with the 1980 GR300, tied with the VG99 at number 1. The sound quality and Pitch tracking of that analog synth hasn't been beat yet.

And let's see who has the number 3 spot.

That would be roland again with the boss Sy 300.

These are all dedicated products made specifically as guitar synthesizers.



Rhcole

I guess it's a little unfair to do an apples-to-oranges comparison either direction between Roland and EHX. Roland produces more complete systems, whereas EHX sells modular solutions that become really powerful when combined together or with other products. Put the Superego+ with a Synth9 into a great mod/reverb/echo, and you will get sounds that you can't reproduce with any of the Roland products that lack onboard synths. And of course, the reverse is true as well.

No question Roland has the nod for great products historically. I still use the SY-300 constantly. But, in the time since the SY-300 came out, EHX has introduced a whole batch of products that might interest people on this site. The three that drew my attention are the Mel9, the Synth9, and now the Superego+. The Mel9 is an amazing breakthrough in 1/4" sound generation, the Synth9 is a very good product, and the Superego+, while possibly not as groundbreaking as the Mel9, is going to take the ambient/soundscape/experimental world by storm. It will be a must-have for those audiences.

But, there's more. The Mel9 was a breakthrough in part because its pitch shifts were noticeably cleaner than the C9 organ pedal and everything that came before it. The Mel9 was the cutoff point for me. Everything before it was too glitchy for me to keep. Now, the Synth9 is cleaner than the Mel9, and the Superego+ is noticeably cleaner than the Synth9. AND THE SYNTH9 CAME OUT SOMETHING LIKE THREE MONTHS AGO.

EHX is upping their game and doing it fast. It's a bit weird, because they continue to sell products (C9, HOG2, Pitch Fork) that can't keep up technology-wise with the newest products they are releasing. But, I guess they sell enough of the old stuff to keep them in the catalog.

I would love to see Roland respond to this market challenge. I want them to step up and release a VG-120 or some such thing. They are talking like they are going to do it.

But EHX is DOING IT. And they are doing it faster than anybody else in this market place. A few are duds or not so interesting, at least to me.
But, for my money, they are the guys to watch until somebody else steps up.
At least so long as Mike Matthews doesn't keel over from too many cigars.







alexmcginness

A couple of years ago I posted on an EHX post on facebook that Id like to see a re issue of the Big Muff but all of them in one box. So guess what? Theres a new EHX Big Muff on steroids. Im gettin one. The company listens!  The demo I heard of it sounds great.
  One of the reasons Im liking the EHX stuff and I keep joking about it to EHX, is Bill Rupperts demos of this stuff. I keep asking if his fingers come with it and I post that I hope theyre paying him well, as I think hes responsible for a lot of the sales of their stuff. Roland had their chance and I believe they could have sold a boat load of product with Bill at the helm of demoing the stuff. Im not discounting the other demonstrators like Paul Hanson and Gundy Keller, but Bills demos dig a little deeper creatively IMO.
Anyhoo, things are what they are now with Roland and EHX. Im not a fan of individual pedals for live work which is why I use the VG-99. I can access all parameters with one preset and the box itself is at waist height and  I can tweak it without bending over making me look like a calisthenics instructor. However,for studio work  these EHX boxes look like a tweakers dream come true. Bill Ruppert has sold me on more than one new EHX box, and probably a few more in the future. If Roland had put an external FX loop in the VG-99 Id be using EXH boxes live as well.     
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

chrish

Quote "If Roland had put an external FX loop in the VG-99 Id be using EXH boxes live as well."

I think I read somewhere here that you could take  the audio R output from Channel A and run it through external fx. Then input that effects  chain signal back into the VG99 guitar input. Then the input goes into Channel B and audio output L goes to the amp.




admin

Quote from: chrish on October 29, 2017, 08:34:31 AM
Quote "If Roland had put an external FX loop in the VG-99 Id be using EXH boxes live as well."

I think I read somewhere here that you could take  the audio R output from Channel A and run it through external fx. Then input that effects  chain signal back into the VG99 guitar input. Then the input goes into Channel B and audio output L goes to the amp.

Correct

alexmcginness

VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

chrish

Quote from: alexmcginness on October 29, 2017, 12:54:01 PM
stereo?
I believe it would be mono at that point.

But since you have four VG 99's you could
potentially have quadraphonic sound using that external FX patch chain method. ;)

alexmcginness

Quote from: chrish on October 29, 2017, 04:42:34 PM
I believe it would be mono at that point.

But since you have four VG 99's you could
potentially have quadraphonic sound using that external FX patch chain method. ;)

True but I fly to my gigs and less is more. I get by quite nicely with just the VG 99. I modeled my Guyatone Yube OD pedal into it using Har-Bal. Once I get the new Big Muff Ill model that into the 99 for live gigs.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

Smash

VG99 comparison is missing the point - it's hex pup it SHOULD be better  :)

Have to agree with OP - EHX are kicking Roland's butt with 1/4" synth products. There isn't one "must have" demo of a singular SY300 patch out there (plenty of "cat call" patches lol) but listen to EHX Melloton or Keys demos and there most definitely is a "wow" factor. Add Roland's lack of polyphony and game set match EHX.

chrish

Quote from: Smash on October 30, 2017, 01:30:28 AM
VG99 comparison is missing the point - it's hex pup it SHOULD be better  :)

Have to agree with OP - EHX are kicking Roland's butt with 1/4" synth products. There isn't one "must have" demo of a singular SY300 patch out there (plenty of "cat call" patches lol) but listen to EHX Melloton or Keys demos and there most definitely is a "wow" factor. Add Roland's lack of polyphony and game set match EHX.
kind of makes a person wish that EHX would get into making hex products.

carlb

EHX would take the game up *another* level if they'd just add a midi-control port in. Change settings on the fly via a foot controller set up for patches coordinated with your other signal-chain gear.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Brak(E)man

the deal breaker being : not stereo and tooooo many pedals
I don't see myself going back to a pedal board ever again
and even less using a guitar amp
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

alexmcginness

Quote from: Brak(E)man on October 30, 2017, 11:08:54 AM
the deal breaker being : not stereo and tooooo many pedals
I don't see myself going back to a pedal board ever again
and even less using a guitar amp

Me too. When I travel I have an FC-50 to do the patch changes for my VG-99 which does evrything I need for cover tunes and more for my one man pub show. The 99 is on a stand and I can tweak it on the fly when needed. So.. no bending over to adjust old style stomp boxes. Presets rule when you need speed to pick the nextsong on the fly and the sequencer calls up the patch as soon as you hit play. The day I relegated my stomp box pedal board to the studio was a grat day for me.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: alexmcginness on October 30, 2017, 11:15:28 AM
... Presets rule when you need speed to pick the nextsong on the fly and the sequencer calls up the patch as soon as you hit play. The day I relegated my stomp box pedal board to the studio was a grat day for me.

I play mainly  improvised music , so no set lists nor songs most of the time and no extra foot control.
( a looper is my only vice )
But I do use presets on the GP as I did the old stomp boxes.
Which means I switch between 99 different sounds and their extra settings.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

mchad

Quote from: carlb on October 30, 2017, 10:56:36 AM
EHX would take the game up *another* level if they'd just add a midi-control port in. Change settings on the fly via a foot controller set up for patches coordinated with your other signal-chain gear.

Does anyone know why midi is not fully embraced at EHX?

carlb

Almost like they need a cover for the MIDI port and label. In the directions:

""You leave the cover on, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe about stomp boxes. But you pop the cover, you stay in 'Wonderland' - and I show you how deep the MIDI control goes."
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Rhcole

I'm guessing as well, but I think they have an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach to selling their stuff. I have to believe they are doing well, because they are releasing new pedals faster than any other company that I'm aware of. Companies pull back when sales aren't great- look at Roland.

No question that the users of this site would like to see multi boxes with software control and MIDI I/O. It sure would be more efficient. I think back to the early episodes of Effectology where Bill R. would say- "You can get this great effect by simply using the EHX ________ hooked to the _________ with an added ___________ feeding into the _________. And finally, they all feed into the _________!"

And it would be a patch that you could do in your sleep on a VG-99.  ::)

But selling lots of little boxes is EHX's business, so I guess I can't fault them for that.

Brak(E)man

Regular guitarists don't want midi or multifx.
They want a box they can stomp on that does one thing , maybe turn a knob ,nothing too complicated. They can lay them out on the floor and look at them.
Doesn't really matter if the sound that's coming from the box is " weird " or not.
Synth ? Yes ok if it doesn't state synth,  looks like a stomp box and plugs into your regular PU
and into your guitar amp.
Apart from maybe sounding ok , a brandish name etc , that's why EHX is selling.
Guitarists never seems to surprise me.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

aliensporebomb

It's that whole "vintage guitar" thing they think they need to adhere to - you know stratocaster/super reverb or les paul and twin all the way up for that "rock aura".
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Rhcole

Quote from:  philjynx on October 31, 2017, 03:56:50 AM
Guitarists do have a reputation for being a bit simple. Perhaps those here are synthesiser players who started out playing the guitar and now want to use it as the 'keyboard' for their synth?

That would be me in the 70's and 80's- I had big keyboard envy.
But now that I'm older, I love the warmth and soul of guitars.
I just get bored with every guitar player sounding like everybody else. It's like if you don't play "politically acceptable" blues, rock, jazz, so forth you aren't in the "club".
When we go out to clubs and a band is playing the blues (and I do like blues), after awhile I just think- SOMEBODY PLAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT! PLEASE!

chrish

Quote from: Rhcole on October 31, 2017, 10:16:59 AM
That would be me in the 70's and 80's- I had big keyboard envy.
But now that I'm older, I love the warmth and soul of guitars.
I just get bored with every guitar player sounding like everybody else. It's like if you don't play "politically acceptable" blues, rock, jazz, so forth you aren't in the "club".
When we go out to clubs and a band is playing the blues (and I do like blues), after awhile I just think- SOMEBODY PLAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT! PLEASE!
I think we have to keep in mind that many musicians have to earn a living playing music.

I used to listen to Greg Hawks, and his high school band at the time, play original progressive rock music at teenage coffee houses. He was rocking a flute.

Later he became the keyboard player for the Cars and earned a living playing original pop Tunes.

Pop is where the money is because that's what the masses are told to listen too.

I don't think we can fault guitar players for using the gear that they use or the music that they have to play  in order to earn a living.

Plug a Gibson Les Paul into a Marshall and you're going to get great tone.

Plug a guitar into the gear we use here and you have to work out the tracking bugs and for the most part create the tones.  Creation and learning is what we like about it.

Electro-harmonix and many other pedal companies are there for the Plug and Play crowd. It's easy, no learning curve required other than learning musicianship skills.


Rhcole

Stephen Hill, Founder of Hearts of Space said once:

"Finding great musicians is actually very easy. What's hard is to find a great audience!"