FC300 - Up/Down patch select possible?

Started by carlb, May 05, 2009, 03:01:14 PM

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carlb

I just finished playing guitar in a pit band for 'Aida.' The VG-99 and an SH-575 worked beautifully for all guitar types required of the Guitar 1 and Guitar 2 books. Eighties pop-band lead sounds, Stones-approved rhythm guitar, Reggae guitar/organ comping, motown guitar riffs, steel-string acoustic, nylon string acoustic, sitar, synth melodies, power chords, you name it.

Each song had it's own patch, and I set them up sequentially from the Overature out to the Bows/Exit. For the most part, switching between patches was a breeze: select from pedals 1 to 5 sequentially for the next patch.

Until it came time to switch banks. Then it was a bank-up switch, and then a switch to patch 1 of that bank to start up the next bank.

But is there a way to setup the FC-300 to have an up/down relative patch select? That would have worked much better.

Thanks!

- Carl


ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Brent Flash

Not sure what you mean? Could you give an example?

carlb

Hi Brent. For example, I'd like an "Up" patch select footswitch and a "Down" patch select footswitch so that I can just change to the next patch by pushing the "Up" footswitch ...

It just means I don't have to keep track of overshooting on a bank-up select, and the double footswitch press needed to change to the next bank.

I like to keep things "Keep It Simple, Sam" for live, because if it goes wrong I have a chance of correcting it on the fly.

Thanks,

Carl
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Brent Flash

You could turn off WAIT FOR NUMBER and set to IMMEDIATE on the FC-300 BANK CHANGE parameter in the SYSTEM pane. This would go directly to the next patch without the extra push. Is that what you mean?

Brent Flash

Another thing I do if I need to change banks quick is set up my DIRECT PATCH BUTTON to go to those banks.

Something else I use that gives me access to two banks at once, but I would not call it keeping it simple is in this thread.https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,1377.0.html

carlb

"Immediate" mode for the FC-300 may be what I'm looking for ...

In that mode, do the bank select footswitches become up/down footswitches to get you to the next/previous patch?

If so, that's what I need.

Thanks!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Brent Flash

Quote from: carlb on May 05, 2009, 03:47:27 PM
"Immediate" mode for the FC-300 may be what I'm looking for ...

In that mode, do the bank select footswitches become up/down footswitches to get you to the next/previous patch?

If so, that's what I need.

Thanks!
No, it just goes directly to the patch adjacent to the one you are on when you hit the up bank or down bank.

carlb

Brent, I think we're saying the same thing, heh.

What I want is mode that can take me immediately to the patch number lower than or higher than the one I'm on, just by hitting a single footswitch.

That sounds a lot like "the patch adjacent to the one you are on."

No wonder I never could figure out the VG-99's "little sister," the GT-10 Control/Assign funkiness. It's almost impossible to describe in a way that doesn't sound like gibberish.

As an aside, if I'm not mistaken, the VG-99 control assigns seem to be more easy to wrap my head around. Or maybe it's just that I'm starting to think like the Japanese firmware guys who thought all this stuff up. ;^)
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Brent Flash

Yeah, your right, probably the same thing. The next/previous threw me. In fact that may be a good option if it were available.

I like the system I came up with where you press the same patch button to go to the Odd/Even patch. This allows me to go between four patches by using two patch buttons. I am always switching during a song and I like to keep the dancing to a minimum.  :o

ChrisF

I came to the forum recently with the exact same question as the original poster. I use the VG-99 almost exclusively for theatre gigs and found it to be the perfect machine for the job. I know that in professional pits, e.g. Broadway and the national tours of Broadway shows, they make heavy use of the Fractal Axe-FX II. They don't want any amps in the pit, they want everything to be controlled in the sound booth. The Fractals are programmed with one patch for every sound, advanced sequentially. So if a song calls for a clean electric, then add a chorus, then turn off chorus and add distortion, those will be three separate patches, advanced in order, 1, 2 and 3. There will be anywhere from 75-100 patches for a show, and the player just steps through them. This takes away all of the crazy tap-dancing you can get into trying to switch multiple effects mid-song.

After a lot of experimentation, I discovered several ways to achieve the desired result with the VG-99. None are perfect, so I've listed the pros and cons, along with what I wound up using.

1)   FC-300: Change the up-bank behavior so that when you hit the up arrow, the patch advances from #5 on the current bank to #1 on the next bank (default behavior is to advance to #5 on the next bank, forcing you to hit the "1" pedal in order to get to #1 on the next bank – 2 pedal presses). This is what the OP was looking to do.
How to do it:
a.   On the FC-300, Press the "Mode" button several times to put the unit in Standard Mode.
b.   Press "Parameter" to select SYS: Bnk Chg Mode" (p. 48 in the FC-300 manual)
c.   Press "Value" to select "Reset Number"
Pros: Achieves desired behavior. When you advance to the next bank, you are on #1 of that bank.
Cons: This is a big one. If you are in Standard mode, you MUST change all patches from the FC-300, because any changes made on the VG-99 (i.e. change patch with the rotary wheel) are not communicated back to the FC-300. That only happens in SysEx mode.

2)   Use Ctrl 1 and Ctrl 2 on the FC-300 for down/up patch advance.
How to do it: This is relatively easy.
a.   On the VG-99, go into System, then select CTL
b.   Scroll to find FC-300 CTL1 and FC-300 CTL2 (NOTE: You can use S1/S2 as well, or other controls for this)
c.   The default here is "Assignable – Patch", which means that for every patch you can have these pedals do something different (most commonly switch effects on and off). Change this setting to "PATCH SELECT INC" and "PATCH SELECT DEC"
Pros: You now have patch increment and decrement pedals
Cons: You have lost the ability to use CTL1 and CTL2 on the FC-300 to switch effects on and off.  This won't be an issue if you strictly advance patches for all effects changes.
   
3)   Use Ctrl 3 and Ctrl 4 on the VG-99 for down/up patch advance. There is one stereo jack for both CTL3 and CTL4 on the back of the VG-99.
How to do it: This requires an external pedal or pedals: Either one Boss FS-6 with a stereo ¼" cable, or two Boss FS-5Us with a stereo cable and a Y splitter to the two switches, or one Boss FS-5U with a normal cable (but then you only get CTL3).
a.   On the VG-99, go into System, then select CTL
b.   Scroll to find CTL3 and CTL4
c.   Change "Assignable – Patch", to "PATCH SELECT INC" and "PATCH SELECT DEC"
Pros: You now have dedicated patch increment and decrement pedals that do not subtract any functionality from other pedals.
Cons: FS-6 is pretty big; you might not have room for it. Also, you have to remember to unplug the cables when not in use or the battery drains. Third, you have to have a stereo cable.
FS-5U with a normal cable means you only get CTL3, not CTL4.
After all of this, I went with option 3 with a Boss FS-5U and a normal cable. I am incrementing with CTL3 only, as normally I never have to decrement during a show. Also, the FS-5U is pretty small, and it does not require a battery, which keeps it simple.  In addition to CTL3, I also set up S1/S2 for cases when my foot is on a wah pedal when I make a change and cannot easily get to the FS-5U.

One last editorial note – I have found, for what I am doing, that the patch pedals 1-5 and the up/down arrow pedals on the FC-300 are more or less useless. I really wish there was a way to reprogram them, or perhaps build my own FC-300 replacement which didn't include them in order to save space.

arkieboy



I do a standard theatre show once per year - much more low key than you guys - but I also find my VG99 to be perfect for the gig.   I'm pretty happy with the FC300 - one thing I do to make stuff a bit easier is I use the ctl1 and ctl2 switches to bring in regular variations on the same sound, switching between cosm channels or engaging boosts or effects.  I find this means most songs are a single patch in a bank of five patches and there is very little to think about.

>>>I really wish there was a way to reprogram them, or perhaps build my own FC-300 replacement which didn't include them in order to save space.

Why don't you just get an expression pedal and a FS6s, mount them on a pedaltrain and plug them into the back of the VG?  Do you need two expression pedals?
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

ChrisF

That's actually a great idea. I use the two expression pedals for wah and volume, but I can't think of where I've needed both in the same song. And I like to have at least one footswitch for times when you just have to switch an effect on or off with your foot. But I could use one side of the FS-6 for that, and the other side for patch advance. Hmm....

arkieboy

Actually, how do you guys manage your music?  I find it quite difficult to get the balance between knowing exactly where I am in the score and having something that ideally will fit on two or four sides of A4.  I've done the whole music stand extension thing but space is limited.
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

concordal

Quote from: arkieboy on January 28, 2018, 03:32:19 AM
. . .  I find it quite difficult to get the balance between knowing exactly where I am in the score and having something that ideally will fit on two or four sides of A4. . . .

@arkieboy:  I use an iPad.  But that still requires carefully thought out lyric sheets.  I use a red font for Chorus, and a blue font for Bridge, both of which are indented.  If you'd like further details PM me and I'll send you a sample.  All that lyric sheet prep work helps me remember the song, so I rarely look at the iPad!

HTIH

ChrisF

#14
@arkieboy: I'm pretty old school when it comes to music. I print a pdf of the score and put it in a 3-ring binder. Then I take a big, soft black pencil and mark my patch changes (along with fingerings and positions, etc). right in the book. I try to print it in order to minimize bad page turns (i.e. if there are only 2 pages, make them facing, try to set up page turns before or after measures of rest, etc.). For a lot of the newer shows the music prep people are actually pretty good about trying to create the book to minimize bad page turns.

Some guys like to use plastic sheet protectors because you can bat at them with a bear-claw swipe to turn the page quickly, but I don't like that approach because you have to pull the sheet out to write on it. There are always cuts, etc. that come up in rehearsal.

There are also guys really like using FourScore on the iPad, because you can write on it, and you can use a pedal to advance the pages.

arkieboy

Currently I'm using plastic sheet protectors and I like that I can take a bear swipe ;-) but I agree about taking notes!


This year's set is much more manageable than the last couple of years bar the big 12min Queen medley and the megamix at the end of the night.  At least with the former I did some tech work helping devise the running order so I know the transitions already, I'll just learn the megamix from a midi export from the sib project.


Been looking into the whole iPad thing from concordal's suggestion: I like forScore a lot - I think I might get one of those Yamaha MD-BT01 midi-bluetooth interfaces for my VG and set up a FS6 attached to my FC300 for stepping through the score.  Probably for next year though ...
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4