What is your preferred OS you use for Music Creation? ( Poll)

Started by Elantric, October 28, 2014, 01:14:59 PM

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Autana

While I use to work Mac as audio engineer in contracted audio studios facilities, I am still using Windows 7 (NO WIN 10 YET!!)  and even Windows XP SP3 on a second PC in my house and home studio. Discuss the reasons is a bit redundant, and I agree with very similar to all the above in many discussions. But if there is one detail I want to mention. And it is about the fact Windows NOT allowing multiple audio-music apps/editors to coexist.  That is not 100% true. M-Audio AVID ASIO drivers for Windows do support multi-client and its use with multiple software programs simultaneously. 

I don't know if other brands have implemented it, but I have M-Audio FastTrack Ultra, M-Track Eight and PROJECTMIX I / O interfaces, and its ASIO drivers for Windows do support multi-client; use with multiple software programs simultaneously. With any of these I can open simultaneously Cubase (any version), Band-in-a-Box and Chainer (a Multi-VST standalone holder utility) Loaded with TH3 and extra pluggins, and all in MULTI ASIO mode with latencies between 2 to a maximum of 3.5 ms each when I need to record in real time (for the rest, I raise latency for release PC resources in mixing and mastered task not affected by latency). Over the years I've learned to build high-performance PCs they are able to stay ON for days and weeks (while no long blackouts) the processor of my main PC is an AMD quad-core Black Edition 3.5 MHZ ,16 GB RAM, which is enough for me.
We have a Mac notebook at home, and although it feels almost clinically antiseptic, I feel too limited compared to my Windows-based systems. There is more than 15 years of history between successful and others fighting with microsoft blunders, nobody said it was easy, but right now most I do is learn to live with both OS intelligently, but always preferring Bill ahead.

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Avid Knowledge Base
Fast Track USB Drivers

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Fast-Track-USB-Drivers

Last Updated : February 3, 2016
Products Affected : Fast_Track_USB

Windows Releases (click on a version # to download the driver installer)

    6.1.12
        Jun 20, 2013
        This is the final driver release for the Fast Track USB
        Adds Windows 8 support
        Note that Windows 10 (or later) is not compatible and will not be qualified
        Support for Pro Tools 10.3.x – Pro Tools 11
        Hardware latency values are now reported with far greater accuracy, allowing host applications to perform the best possible hardware latency compensation
        Improved performance
        Improved multi-client support
        Miscellaneous bug fixes



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PG Music Home » Forums » General Discussion » Off-Topic » Support for using ASIO with multiple programs at once
Support for using ASIO with multiple programs at once


Support for using ASIO with multiple programs at once. Previously, if you were using an ASIO driver
(so that you have low latency), you could only use ASIO with one program at a time. Now you can use
multiple programs at once with ASIO - for example RealBand and Band-in-a-Box at the same time. This
requires using the Steinberg® ASIO Multi-Client Wrapper, which you can download here:
ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Hardware/ASIO_multiclient_driver/
To get this function working:
1. install the ASIO Multi-Client-Wrapper
2. Run the ASIO Multi Server, and select your ASIO Driver (e.g. ASIO4ALL). The ASIO Server is
a program located in "C:\Program Files (x86)\vidance\asiomulti\asioserver.exe"
3. Run RealBand, and choose Prefs-Audio-Driver Type ASIO, and then select ASIO Multi-Client
Wrapper" as your ASIO driver.
4
Note: that you may have to reboot your PC after you have installed any new ASIO Drivers.
The steps above need only be done once. The next time you run RealBand, things will already be setup.



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Monsieur Trente-Six 10 months ago
Does the M-Audio M-Track Eight have a multi-client ASIO driver?
Interested in the M-Track Eight, but I would need its ASIO driver to be multi-client.

Dan R (Employee) 10 months ago
Hello,

Thanks for posting.

Yes! The M-Track Eight and its ASIO drivers for Windows do support multi-client; use with multiple software programs simultaneously.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Comment
good answer!

Monsieur Trente-Six 10 months ago
Excellent! Thanks for the quick and clear response. :)
Comment
good answer!

EMPLOYEE
Dan R (Employee) 10 months ago
Happy to help! :)





-----
GR-55, GP-10, GI-20, Godin xtSA, GodinNylon MultiAc, Giannini classical, 3 GK-3'd gtrs, Cube 80XL, Primova GKFX-21 (x2)

Fear just pulls you out of being true to music, which is coming from a place of love. Love is the opposite of fear. I stay away from anything fear-related.
- Tal Wilkenfeld -

Elantric

QuoteM-Audio AVID ASIO drivers for Windows do support multi-client and its use with multiple software programs simultaneously. 

Absolutely

Issue is bulk of folks here are rooted in Roland / Boss  / Line-6 gear  - and not many of those support Multi-Client ASIO

and 60% of newbies wonder why they cant hear their GR-55 USB audio through their Windows PC speakers, or if they do get  it working - boast how bad the GTR to MIDI latency is  - only after drilling down and getting into the specific details of their setup discover their audio routing is a mess.

Also many Windows users foolishly trust the ROUND TRIP IN & OUT latency numbers expressed in their DAW's ASIO Audio setup screen -


but never learn how to trust their ears, or use a third party tool to verify reality


Some dont know latency increases when your computer starts doing actual work - like running many audio tracks in and out using several  VST FX plug-ins at the same time when recording tracks, or playing live.

More discussion on this here
16 v 24 bit, asio4all, usb issues
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10314.msg93356#msg93356

Optimization for lowest Audio Latency
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12835.msg93210#msg93210

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/how-to-improve-latency-when-used-as-a-vst-in-sonar.113035/

https://www.presonus.com/community/Learn/The-Truth-About-Digital-Audio-Latency


https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun07/articles/latency_0607.htm


The time I have spent in this life sorting out  / debugging Windows Audio for Real time professional music creation since 1980's is easily a few man years, and I doubt i'll ever get it to match the performance of Core Audio in OSX on my Mac right out of the box. But many others are luckier, or can tolerate longer latency for live performance.

But for any other non music creation task,  due to my engineering day job,  I typically  much prefer a Windows PC -

and i still prefer using a fast Windows machine with lots of RAM for post production work - I view post production editing as completely different - I use Sony  Soundforge &  Sony Vegas for Video Editing 

but Linux is picking up momentum
http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientated-linux-distribution

Headless68

I wonder if the trend is moving on this - for the last probably 8 months its been 99% iOS for me but prior to that OSX - the variety of 'quality' music apps & the ability to run multiple together + touch interface + form factor + quality interfaces (iTrack) + bluetooth4 foot control all played a factor in this

BigDawgsByte

OS X for pretty much everything, especially music and any other creative activity. I am basically a UNIX guy, since 1980, so OS X is a natural for me. I am a retired IT pro and am comfortable in any OS, was WIN 3 and NT beta tester, have always had MSDN sub until I retired. I do keep VMWare on my RMBP with variaous flavors of Windows and Linux/UNIX, for games, security stuff (secure UNIX), etc., but 95% of what I do is on OS X including Open Source dev, building, etc. To me its just UNIX with a pretty UI. I also use iOS a lot as well, with my iPad. I carry an iPad everywhere, no iPhone, I send and receive calls on my iPad. 90% of the stuff on my iPad is Music related.

Primarily use Logic Pro X, MainStage, Bias, Bias FX, on the Mac and Auria, Audiobus, Bias, Bias FX, Loopy, etc. on my iPad. I use an iConnectivityAudio4+ AI with both my RMBP and iPad connected to my gear so I can use effects and and tools on my iPad in Logic Pro X. So in reality I should answer both OS X and iOS since I often use them in combination. 

montyrivers

Windows is still viable, but you need the advantage of good interface driver support.  RME is probably the best company for this, but not the cheapest (not the most expensive).

Their USB and PCIe interfaces are very nice.

Mac is still king of the audio pile but their recent user hostile hardware releases and pricing has me off any new mac computers for life.

Elantric

QuoteMac is still king of the audio pile but their recent user hostile hardware releases and pricing has me off any new mac computers for life.

Exactly - luckily a used 2011 - 2012 era Mac is now affordable and remains viable

possibly better than Apple's current offerings


whippinpost91850

Yep! That's why I have a late 2011 27" iMac and just picked up a late 2011 MacBook Pro

gumtown

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric


Hurricane

.

Quote from: Elantric on January 11, 2017, 02:11:23 PM
Oh thats so yesterday ;)

http://windows10times.com/windows-11-release-date-concept-features-news/



The inconsistency in OS upgrades is truly frustrating .

I've had both Mac and Brand X .

The degree of stress brand X had/has caused me disappeared when I got Mac .

From what I have garnered so far on Lenix , it sounds interesting .

Maybe learning UNIX ain't a bad way to go but , I'd rather play my music instead of be
involved with the technical aspect .

There was a post of about the promoting part of playing live being not something that is
desired to do and music being the only thing and the other part of self promo not being desired

- I  see the technical aspect as a drag but a necessary
part of the equation a musician has to also master as much proficiency in .

That said , a consistent rock solid OS helps but I'm stuck with Win .10 and that's where I'm at
like or not , so I'm going to try and make it work . Nothing good comes easy applies here dang it .

HR

.

pammiwhammi

Linux here. I was using Debian, then I discovered Ubuntu Studio...I usually use Ardour for tracking, export, then mix everything using Audacity. I also just discovered Hydrogen, a scalable drum machine for Linux and OSx...
"A word to the wise is infuriating." Hunter S Thompson

mummer

2013 Imac here Osx (Sierra) using focusrite clarett 4pre with thunderbolt, I don't notice latency anymore with the thunderbolt everything is rock solid. Very Happy.

sunbambino

I run a 4,1 12 core Mac Pro which had the firmware upgraded to 5,1 by someone who knows what he's doing, it's flawless, thank God. I'd never use Windows coz I'm a muso not a techy guy really and I could never get Windows to do anything consistently even at the level of word-processing. I understand that someone who can be forever patching the house-built-on-sand which is Windows (imo) can get good results, but I just wanna write music, not bury my head in DOS. I'd like to move up from El Capitan but my interface (Firewire Apogee Ensemble) won't tolerate anyhting newer OS-wise which is sad and a reflection on Apogee who should have gone on supporting this brilliant interface as RME have done with their older units. But I'm very happy with my system. I use a super-silent bathroom extractor fan to port the (serious) fumes from the MacPro out of my studio, very important in my view is air-quality while working.

Mac rocks!!!


vtgearhead

Quote from:  wiseppman on December 25, 2018, 12:16:41 PM
For me the WINDOWS 10 is the best, it works flawlessly for me.

What is your strategy for preventing it from deciding to update in the middle of DAW usage? 

bosetuno

Quote from: vtgearhead on December 25, 2018, 05:56:20 PM
What is your strategy for preventing it from deciding to update in the middle of DAW usage?

I use it everyday for 8+ hours. Never happened to me such a thing.

My poll goes to win 7 anyway. My DAW performance suffered slightly when I upgraded from it to Win10. Not much, but it was noticeable.

I once bought a Mac. Two weeks later I installed win10 on it and never looked back

rolandvg99

Shifting from Mac to Windows 10 here because buying a new Mac with capable hardware is ridiculously overpriced and less flexible. Apple charges more for just the 2TB of storage than what I've paid for my entire i7-8700, 16GB RAM, AMD RX580 8GB and 2TB of SSD rig.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

aliensporebomb

#42
Depends on what you're hoping to accomplish.  I've been Mac for music for years now.  But at the level I like to work at it's about the same price. 

Example: Dual Xeon iMac Pro with 32 gigs of ram is somewhere in the $4500-5000 range with the Vega video card.   The 10 core Corei9 Windows 10 machine I saw with Nvidia mega gaming card, 32 gigs of ram and liquid cooling, 1 TB SSD and larger HDD was around the same price.   A similarly configured desktop cpu with the 8-core 9th generation i7 in a similar configuration but with 16 gigs ram was around $2800 and the 6-core 9th gen i5 was in the $2400 range (but personally I dislike I5s).

But, for me the real expense is the software.  I have considerable cash in software so switching would be difficult.  Of course, my i7 iMac with 32 gigs of ram and "fusion drive" (part ssd/part hdd) has a Windows 10 partition so I can run either really I've got multiple external drives (6+5+5+3+3 TB last I've checked).

And almost worse than the software I have over a decade and a half of Logic or Garageband sessions backed up - dating back 16 or 17 years, hundreds and hundreds of pieces of music a year every year since then.  I still need access to that stuff. 
So yeah, the Mac thing can be a little annoying if you want "pow pow power" but it can be done.   Re-tooling the individual track and automation files for those tracks in a new DAW would be a "for the rest of my life" type job.  No thanks!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

alexmcginness

#43
Quote from: rolandvg99 on December 26, 2018, 11:37:51 PM
Shifting from Mac to Windows 10 here because buying a new Mac with capable hardware is ridiculously overpriced and less flexible. Apple charges more for just the 2TB of storage than what I've paid for my entire i7-8700, 16GB RAM, AMD RX580 8GB and 2TB of SSD rig.

Rick Beato got around the price thing by making a Hackintosh. Theres plenty of high powered top of the line workstations you can get as refurbished units. I have 3 HP Z800s in my studio. All are dual Hex core Xeons with a ton of ram. The two music machines have 48 and 24 gigs of ram and the one I use for video and a third music server has 72 gigs of ram. I bought them all used over a two year span. The first one I paid $1600 for the second one with 72 gigs of ram I paid $1000 and the third I paid $650 for.  The Z800s are industrial machines and designed to run 24/7. The only one that needed repair, needed a new power supply that cost under $200. When these machines were new they were around $10K each, for similarly speced units. If you need power and are on a budgit, then refurbished may be the way to go. You can make them Windows or Mac machines these days.

VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

admin

Deciding on PC or Mac, Asio vs CoreAudio and Audio Interface
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=227420

Quotejestermgee   wrote>
I am a happy Windows user, have been for 20 years and have had almost no issues with performance/drivers etc.

What you need to understand when trying to work with audio is how it works within your environment. Just as an audio engineer has to understand how the signal flows through physical gear.

With Windows the audio is handled by a number of layers that allow the audio resources to be shared with multiple programs. This is why windows sounds, youtube and your other software can all play nicely and work at the same time. The problem is it is a "bus" that has a lot of different stops along the way and is also given a lower priority in the system than other resources so when CPU demand picks up, audio gets less of a priority... bad for real-time DAW work.

ASIO drivers were created way back when to help overcome this issue as DAWs started taking off in the 90s. What ASIO does is bypass the layers within Windows and creates a direct audio stream path from software to interface. The downside to this is that only a single application can use the ASIO drivers so often when the DAW is running, other applications cannot access the ASIO driver. Some drivers will handle both ASIO and WDM (shared) audio mixing at the same time to allow multiple applications to still play audio.

So the reason ASIO drivers offer better performance is they are designed specifically for the task and bypass all the other windows processes that get in the way which can allow for lower buffers and more reliable performance.

Having used ASIO4ALL in the past and several audio interfaces it all works just fine as long as you have your PC "conditioned" for real time audio work which involves keeping processes that run in the background to a minimum, switching OFF all power saving features for USB/HDD/CPU and keeping things as lean and clean as possible.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/MAC-Core-audio-drivers-versus-PC-ASIO-audio-drivers-m2853564.aspx

alexmcginness

The only major advantage I found using a Mac was that the Roland drivers for the VG-99 usb to midi worked better on my Macbook Pro. The core audio drivers were nice as well. After I got the Triple Play the Mac became redundant and after a couple of years of it being basically a dust catcher and a paperweight I sold it. A lot of people swear by Macs and others swear at them. The best system is the one that suits your needs and that works for you. Ive been on Windows since 1995 and Im use to it and can work around its shortcomings. I couldnt get my head around working a Mac. Everybody is different. Use what works I say. Just use what youre use to and create content for the world to enjoy.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

carlb

For someone with my design background, it's ironic that I prefer dedicated sound modulation & recording gear with real knobs and switches versus touchscreens, operating systems, and software apps.

I try to get excited over DAWs, plug-ins, softsynths, but it just doesn't happen.

I fool around with an iPad for e-book sheet music at the gig. I arrange lead sheets with an ancient version of Sibelius on an 2011 Macbook pro.

But, my favorite operating system for making music ... none or hidden-embedded, hah!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker


Dalai_llama

#48
May I offer a Windows, Mac OS, and Linux user perspective here? (Not trying to be a know-it-all, any comments/rebuffs are welcome)

Started in audio/video with Windows, having extensively used Win3, Win NT and others all the way to mid-2000s. The main issue I and other users encountered were related to component performance: one needed a very powerful PC (not your regular off-the-shelf), and most importantly -- as noted by others -- a good audio interface with good drivers. Windows NT was pretty stable and reliable, and with a good interface and PCI cards it was a reliable machine, although terribly unpractical to carry on-stage. One needed to spend about 3-4 times in hardware than what a regular PC user would for a computer, but it was possible to get productivity and reliability. RME and Avid were kings, Perception and Matrox the queens, and there were a few good ones after these.

However, some OS changes rendered some serial interfaces unusable (such as my Guillemot), driver issues piled up, acquiring new software/hardware was expensive, and some new OS versions were just absolutely atrocious -- Window Vista was the best thing that ever happened to Apple! (It was not until Win 7 that the same level of reliability was restored.)

Came the mid-2000s, I switched to Apple. Hardware is expensive and all, but as one poster already noted, there was CORE AUDIO. Even some of the cheapest USB interfaces worked out of the box, no drivers required. Stability -- which was gone with Windows since Win 98 and XP -- was all there. Audio performance with my old and noisy G4 was faster than the IBM Thinkcentre military-grade beefed-up machine I had just bought (and I never saw a blue screen again). At one point, I had a white Mac laptop that I pushed all the way to the cliff, and it never hang. My keyboard player spent some 2K back in that day on a PC laptop and a common occurrence in our gigs was to lose the keys in the middle of songs. He eventually gave up. Moreover, Apple introduced Firewire, a non-bussed connection, even faster and more stable than USB. My terribly lacking M-Audio interface was more stable than expensive others owned by my Win colleagues. It is no surprise to me that Mac Pros 5,5 (the metal ones) still sell upwards of 1500 Euro.

Apple is no charity institution and had its share of 'malfeasances': the switch from PowerPC chips, the OS 10.6 framework transition, the ditching of firewire, all of that broke people's workflow badly -- and it's happening again with the M1 ARM-based chip. I must say that during Steve Jobs' days, OS updates only applied to hardware built 2 generations ago, which to me was evil. It improved quite a lot under Tim Cook, who allowed much older machines go all the way to OS 10.13, and in some cases 10.15. And the hardware has always been good with very few fumbles along the way. So, the reliability of my now 11-year old laptop is the same as it when it was brand new. But their hardware policy in recent years is truly awful. Soldering RAM to the motherboard to force you to acquire their diamond-priced memory sticks is really mean. My two Mac Minis were fully upgradeable, so they have more memory and dual SSDs.

Finally, I've been a Linux user for many years and lately decided to jump into the ARM distros and recreate my stage setup from that. Reliability is the same or more than Mac OS, tweakability is awesome, hardware development is very possible, but of course it's lacking on software and plugin options, though it's constantly growing. My experience with Pisound and MODEP has been nothing short of that from a pumped-up Mac with Amplitube -- actually, it's a lot better than that, not to mention 1/10th of the cost. I am now experimenting with ELK OS and hope to finish the development of my own portable "rig" (including midi guitar) later this year. It will allow me to use my beloved Synclavier VST with the footprint of a Boss stompbox. Moreover, Apples switch to ARM will actually help here, because every Mac software will eventually become ARM native, so vendors might port them to Linux. In fact, Reaper already has ARM versions.

So, if you ask me, what do you choose now? I ticked the Mac OS box because, as of now, it's still very reliable and stable. Hardware price notwithstanding, I'd buy a Mac over its competition right now, plus one can get a lot of power from computers older than 2014 and the Thunderbolt 3 machines are blazing fast. Since Win 7, reliability on Win machines has improved a lot. Win 8 was a hiccup, but looks like win 10 is back on the game and the much higher flexibility of hardware configuration at much lower prices is definitely a major advantage. And Linux has a lot of room for development. 

"What should I choose?"

The one that gives you the workflow, performance, and stability you need. Many Ableton users have recently switched to Windows, whereas 10 years ago it would be unthinkable. Also, the one that has the drivers (or hardware that comes with the drivers) you need and performs to your heart's content -- some people live well with Windows' higher latency and that's fine.

(Not very savvy on iOS, so cannot comment.)

Sorry for the lengthy 2 cents.

The LLAMA

PS> We must bear in mind that Hackintosh is a violation of Apple's OS license -- not being judgmental here, but it must be noted. 

   

gumtown

Data in the poll may be a little askew as it was made 10 years ago, and Windows 10 added on after.

Here is data from the GR-55Floorboard editor download site, which I use to gauge a statistical representation.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/