GR20 seems to track far better than GR55

Started by philjynx, January 23, 2020, 06:30:13 PM

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philjynx

..

Brak(E)man

The gr55 doesn't work with fretless guitar where as both gr20-30&33 does
I've returned 2 gr-55
Tells you something of the difference in triggering
Beaut of a video
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Headless68

I found the GR30 the best of the 'GR' units for tracking (for me) - but the GP10 is better than all Roland Boss for tracking ( possibly about to be beaten by the SY1000)

plexified

Quote from: Brak(E)man on January 23, 2020, 10:21:59 PM
The gr55 doesn't work with fretless guitar where as both gr20-30&33 does
I've returned 2 gr-55
Tells you something of the difference in triggering
Beaut of a video

Why would the GR-55 not work with a fretless guitar? I am literally tooling up to build one. After watching a ErHu player and Ron Bumblefoot Thal. I must have it. (GK inboard kit with Sustainiac) I'll report back, but I was really curious, Thx


Brak(E)man

#4
Quote from: plexified on January 24, 2020, 07:33:49 PM
Why would the GR-55 not work with a fretless guitar? I am literally tooling up to build one. After watching a ErHu player and Ron Bumblefoot Thal. I must have it. (GK inboard kit with Sustainiac) I'll report back, but I was really curious, Thx

I don't know why it doesn't, but all of my fretless GK guitars had the same result on two different units.
The 55 couldn't follow the slides. It ended up with a different note depending on the lengt etc of the slide. (The bend/slide is an issue with midi and some synth, the bend range has to be set the same on the controller unit and the playing unit , usually 12 or 24 semitones depending on the style of playing.
And of course mono mode , one midi channel per string etc.)
This problem occurred with the pcm. It might be that when the amplitude drops too low the 55 can't read it.
I did have major problems , it was not playable.
But I'm hoping I'm wrong.

Unfretted.com is a great knowledge site.
If you want a better answer ask there.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

plexified

Thanks a lot , that was exactly what I was wondering. I'll definitely look into the GR20, the fretless is very compelling. It great to hear your giving it a shot.

I'll be sure to visit the fretless site, that should be fun. On a side note I was wondering if your name had any throw back to Jimmie Rodgers, I just had him on my radar recently and really enjoyed his work and story. One of his nicknames was Brakeman, an avid train man. Was especially intrigued with the guitar style and its relation to Robert Johnson , whom I had finished a few tunes I was working on. Documentary film maker Ken Burns had quite a story on him in his Country Music series. Thanks again!

admin

#6

IMHO The GR-20 is a bit too stripped down feature wise

Only advantage of GR-20 is there is a Firmware update to allow compatibility with Bass with Gk-3B



I have the GR-30 and GR-33, and GR-55  here and for straight PCM much prefer the GR-33


In real world use I  find  GR-33 is just as fast latency wise as the GR-30 and both are faster than GR-55 PCM .

Initially at 2011 NAMM I thought the GR-55 was going to be faster, but after obtaining the GR-55 I realized I was fooled because I was judging latency based on patches with blended in rhe lower latency COSM Models with the slower PCM synth tones  - COSM Models always play faster than ANY PCM unit or even the Fishman Tripleplay.

But it's true older Roland GR processors typically track faster, more reliably vs GR-55

Brak(E)man

#7
Quote from: plexified on January 25, 2020, 07:00:33 AM
Thanks a lot , that was exactly what I was wondering. I'll definitely look into the GR20, the fretless is very compelling. It great to hear your giving it a shot.

I'll be sure to visit the fretless site, that should be fun. On a side note I was wondering if your name had any throw back to Jimmie Rodgers, I just had him on my radar recently and really enjoyed his work and story. One of his nicknames was Brakeman, an avid train man. Was especially intrigued with the guitar style and its relation to Robert Johnson , whom I had finished a few tunes I was working on. Documentary film maker Ken Burns had quite a story on him in his Country Music series. Thanks again!

Good luck , if you haven't tried tried fretless, it's a very different kind of fish than fretted guitar or slide.
It's also a perfect match with the VGs , GPs modeling and synth algorithm as well as the sy-300
And with GRs ( except the 55 imo )
If you need any advice give me shout, I've been playing fretless since -76

And my nick has nothing to do with Rodgers or Johnson
(the closest connection would be Skip James and the cypress Groove which I've recorded as a instrumental acoustic guitar tune )
haven't lived in Mississippi but in Alabama, Georgia , North and South Carolina etc  ,

it's derived from the Norwegian and Swedish word for a huge thump , thunderous noise , enormous crashing sound etc  , if you'd drop a fridge from a third floor window, Brak , the same goes of course for my studio and recording company Brakophonic.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Silas Lang

Judging by the experience of others (and also mine), it seems that any 13-pin GR synth from yore tracks better than the GR-55. I still use a GR-1 from 1994 and I can assest it. I sold my GR-55 not long ago and kept the GR-1 for that very reason.

Allomerus

I've got a GR20 and my brother bought a GR55. I tried it and decided to stick with the GR20 as it was more playable...

eUphonic

Another user here who kept the GR20 for its tracking... in the meantime, I've tried the GR55 and returned it for this reason. Then I've bought a GP10, that I like for its guitar modeling but... that I've not succeeded to make work for synth sound when it comes to tracking. :-/ Maybe it's just me...   :-\

admin

#11
Quote from: eUphonic on August 21, 2020, 07:40:46 AM
Another user here who kept the GR20 for its tracking... in the meantime, I've tried the GR55 and returned it for this reason. Then I've bought a GP10, that I like for its guitar modeling but... that I've not succeeded to make work for synth sound when it comes to tracking. :-/ Maybe it's just me...   :-\

GP-10 is for Modeling and Guitar to MIDI ( driving SoftSynths on a Laptop)

Its COSM SYNTHS ( GR-300) is very good

But its internal OSC Synth tracking is crap and glitchy



If you want best  INTERNAL Synth tracking - the GP-10 is NOT the unit for you

And if you seek best tracking Pianos , orchestral PCM sounds - get a GR-30, or GR-33
- if you play Bass or Baritone get a GR-20 - as it has a Bass Mode


They SY-1000 is a different animal - and NOT for Pianos , orchestral PCM sounds (none exist)

I'm a broken record - the GR-55 is a "jack of all trades- master of none"
 

jassy

Quote from: admin on August 21, 2020, 08:23:41 AM
- the GR-55 is a "jack of all trades- master of none"
That is precisely the great virtue of the GR55 you can have a complex sound, composed of COSM + PCM + Guitar simultaneously.
It's not the best at anything on its own and at first it was disappointing for me (who doesn't want the best in all fields?), But no other device will give you that combination of sounds and those hybrid sounds that you can get make it very powerful. and only.
I have VG8, GR30, GP10, Sy1000, but I almost always play live with the GR55.
Of course the topic is right, for that very reason I never use PCM sounds in isolation, I always combine them with others and thanks to that I never have a feeling of bad latency.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: admin on August 21, 2020, 08:23:41 AM
GP-10 is for Modeling and Guitar to MIDI ( driving SoftSynths on a Laptop)

Its COSM SYNTHS ( GR-300) is very good w

But its internal OSC Synth tracking is crap and glitchy


If you want best  INTERNAL Synth tracking - the GP-10 is NOT the unit for you


The cosm synth wave synth is great as well even if has less options the vg88 and vg99 versions.
I find that more versatile and "trigger" friendly than the gr300 algorithm.
(And I really like the guitar to midi)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

eUphonic

Quote from: admin on August 21, 2020, 08:23:41 AM
GP-10 is for Modeling and Guitar to MIDI ( driving SoftSynths on a Laptop)

Its COSM SYNTHS ( GR-300) is very good

But its internal OSC Synth tracking is crap and glitchy



If you want best  INTERNAL Synth tracking - the GP-10 is NOT the unit for you

And if you seek best tracking Pianos , orchestral PCM sounds - get a GR-30, or GR-33
- if you play Bass or Baritone get a GR-20 - as it has a Bass Mode


They SY-1000 is a different animal - and NOT for Pianos , orchestral PCM sounds (none exist)

I'm a broken record - the GR-55 is a "jack of all trades- master of none"


For the record, I've precisely not bought the GP10 for its synth sounds  :)
I just wanted a kind of guitar modeling that my Variax was not able to offer (especially the nylon strings emulation and the ability to mimic a 12 strings electric guitar ; it does it in a pretty good way IME, even when compared to my "real" double neck axe. These two features alone justify IMHO the price of the unit).
I just wish the GP10 hadn't this glitchy OSC mode that you mention...

Anyway, no regret to have kept the GR20.

admin

#15
Quote from: eUphonic on August 21, 2020, 10:39:29 AM
For the record, I've precisely not bought the GP10 for its synth sounds  :)
I just wanted a kind of guitar modeling that my Variax was not able to offer (especially the nylon strings emulation and the ability to mimic a 12 strings electric guitar ; it does it in a pretty good way IME, even when compared to my "real" double neck axe. These two features alone justify IMHO the price of the unit).
I just wish the GP10 hadn't this glitchy OSC mode that you mention...

Anyway, no regret to have kept the GR20.

Agreed

At my gigs - size matters and my small GP-10 is my most used live GK processor for precisely same reasons you state

Hope they put next GR55 PCM replacement in a Boss 200 chassis with 3.5 TRS MIDI 1/O Jack's

But doubt that will happen 

Instead we'll get more generations of Katanas - because those generate 1000 times the revenue for Roland - with least R&D expense

shawnb

I have found that the GR-55 actually did pretty good on tracking slide.  (It's the weird slight timing issues that drive me nuts with the GR-55...)

Note that the pitch bend range on the GR-55 is fixed at 24.  Any value other than 24 on the synth side will give you problems with legato, whammy, slide, & bends. 


Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Brak(E)man

Quote from: shawnb on August 21, 2020, 11:49:33 AM
I have found that the GR-55 actually did pretty good on tracking slide.  (It's the weird slight timing issues that drive me nuts with the GR-55...)

Note that the pitch bend range on the GR-55 is fixed at 24.  Any value other than 24 on the synth side will give you problems with legato, whammy, slide, & bends.

I've had three if (I remember correctly) gr55 but returned them because I could not make them work with fretless. I've used both gr20 and 30 as well as the vgs, gp-10 sy300 and 1000. All of them works fine with sliding with a fretless guitar but I could not get the gr55 to function how much I changed the setup.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

haz9v

Hi all,

   First post here.  I recently picked up a GR-20 and a GR-55 to play around with mostly on bass.  I just tried the 20 today and I must say it seems to track so much better than the 55.  It was quite usable right off the bat. Granted I have only played with both for a very limited time, so I need to work on both. lol   

chrish

#19
Quote from: haz9v on June 15, 2021, 07:38:40 AM
Hi all,

   First post here.  I recently picked up a GR-20 and a GR-55 to play around with mostly on bass.  I just tried the 20 today and I must say it seems to track so much better than the 55.  It was quite usable right off the bat. Granted I have only played with both for a very limited time, so I need to work on both. lol
welcome to the forum.

Since purchasing a used Wilcox Atlantis Hexfx guitar ( offers up Superior tracking) I've been using my old Roland GR50 for internal sounds and also for pitch to midi out to external synth modules.

I also have a Boss SY1000 that will do pitch to midi out, however IMO the GR50 midi out is better implemented then the SY1000. The GR50 has two Independent Midi out channels and an ease of adjusting individual string  midi out parameters for those two channels.

Over the years I don't think Roland's guitar synth PCM triggering tech and pitch to midi has changed much if at all.

The COSM tech has.


Allomerus

I have a Gr20 which I find tracks really well. My brother bought a GR 55 which I tried and went back to the GR20 which I prefer for playing too fast and for expression.

Jim Williams

I have used a GR-30, GR-33, GI-20 and a GR-55 with some great sucess on all of them. With the older guitar synths, they required less information to put out a note. this is where you get that faster tracking feel from them. The GR-55 requires more information to put out the notes in the same feel and if you set up your presets you might even feel it's better. The GR-55 requires much more tweaking to translate audio to MIDI.

I don't know anything about it I am just commenting on my own experiences... it's just my own opinion and if you come back at me data and stats of what you might know, I will just get confused. The knowledge I have acquired is all "tips and tricks". some of you other guys have degrees in this stuff and know what you're talking about.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.