In the process of buying a GK-equipped (nylon) guitar

Started by Viabcroce, December 09, 2023, 11:09:16 AM

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Viabcroce

Hello everyone :)

First post here, even tho I've been reading these pages for years (thanks to Elantric).

Sorry for the long post! TL,DNR: I am looking for a good all-in-all solution for exploiting a 13-pin (nylon) guitar.

I've been using a Kemper since a long while, but as of lately found myself more and more involved in duos, where at times I am asked for a greater variety of tones, pads and the like. So I thought I'd try and kill the two birds, and look for a GK-compatible device to couple with my (presumably) future Godin :)

I've been doing my homework!, reading as much as I could about Roland, Boss, GRs-, GPs-, GXs-, GTs-... and everything. I'm trying and digest this amazing amount of information... For now, my impression is that what I am ideally after would require buying/setting a couple of devices at least? I'd be glad to be confirmed or corrected.

On one hand, I don't really need a "traditional" guitar processor since I have the Profiler. On the other hand, it might be a good idea (not mandatory tho) to find one that does all I need, so to be able to carry one device only and have a spare in case of need (for my other guitars/gigs I mean).
But in the end, if I could find a device that does everything except amp/cab modeling and costs less, I'd call it a day and pair it with the KPA.

What I am ideally after is a device that, in one box

  • Works/sounds well with nylon strings as well
  • Manages the GK concept for alternative tunings and, in general, individual string processing (à la GP-10?)
  • Allows to store individual string tunings per patch, so to recall everything with just one action
  • Emulates other stringed instruments (12-string, steel-string, cello...)
  • Allows me to access good synth sounds, better if I can layer them
  • Stores such sounds per patch (as above)
  • Comes with sw/editor that works well under W10, makes sense, is stable and doesn't drive me crazy LOL
  • In the case of devices such as the SY-1000, which seem to require quite an accurate instrument setting from within the processor itself, it would be great if it allowed to save instrument settings as presets (à la Kemper), so to make me able to swap guitar on the fly and just recall the right instrument preset (hope this makes sense)

For what I've gathered till now, a GP-10 would cover the basis of a 13-pin nylon guitar, but of course lacks the synth part, which appears to be good in the GR-55 (and better according to some, and for specific things, in the GR-33  ::) LOL).

Am I correct in thinking an SY-1000 to be a superset of a GP-10 + a GR-55, and a good solution overall? I've d/l'ed the user manual and am reading it ATM, but of course any insight from experienced members would be great :)

Thanks everyone
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est

Brak(E)man

#1
A very loose outline.
Most of what you list works with both below.

(One thing, to switch between real guitars you'll need some box in between or power down before switching.)

GP-10 has 3 setups for different hex PU inputs ( read guitars ) per patch and/or system
It also have 3 synths, wave , GR300 , OSC synth. And good USB midi
+ a normal PU input.
There's quite a lot you can manage with those but only one amp to go around and no
instrument modeling + synth at the same time.

SY-1000 has 10 setups for different hex PU inputs ( read guitars ) per patch and/or system. Lots of synth options + instrument modeling + a normal input path.
In a way like 3 GP-10s / 3 SY-300s and almost a GT1000 in one box.
But not very good guitar to midi USB (nor 5 pin) , GP is better.

At times I use a Godin Multiac nylon RCM, works great with both GP or SY1000
I can use the "acoustic" amp in either to get a good acoustic sound from the Godin + a synth or an instrument modeling.

For an all in one solution I'd recommend SY1000 but you'd have to do without pcm synth samples like piano , reeds etc.
Some of those can be made in SY but it's a synth-synth
if you need more "traditional" ( it's the wrong word but ) synth player sounds
You'll need to look at the GR series or the new GM800
Another way is GP-10 usb midi and softsynths but that means bringing a laptop.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Viabcroce

#2
Quote from: Brak(E)man on December 09, 2023, 12:55:01 PMif you need more "traditional" ( it's the wrong word but ) synth player sounds You'll need to look at the GR series or the new GM800

Thanks Brak(E)man. I bet the GRs or the GM800 would give me that but would lack something else? IOW, would they satisfy my list (OP)?
Is there a long enough blanket for me? :)

PS: it seems the GM800 does not work with the 13-pin cable?
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est

Brak(E)man

#3
The lack of instrument modeling if you by "4 means modeling in real-time other instruments,
 then you'd have to add for example GP-10.
The GR GM uses "pcm samples"  for like 12string guitar etc ,
not realistic nor really playable imho.
( I have not tried GM800 , so I can't really judge it , except what I've heard and read ,
but I'm not interested)


For gm 800 there's the GKC-AD converter box to use with GK-3
and I'm guessing piezo , so that should work.
 


I almost exclusively use GP or SY , live I can add GR33 if I really, really need to. But mostly not. (There's a lot that can be done with GP and/or SY.)
In the studio, I use gp-10 usb ( or a usb keyboard) to softsynths if I need something that I can't make happen in one of the boxes.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

IMH1234

Agree with everything Brak(E)man has said here - the SY1000 is probably the nearest to an all in one solution currently available.

Personally am still relying on a VG99 as the centrepiece of my guitar synth setup with a GR-55 for additional modelled sounds (makes it essentially a 3 voice modelled synth - actually more with some creative tricks). If I need a PCM sampled sound the GR-55 is fine when used alongside the modelled sounds - on their own I don't like them much but all the parameters are accessible in the unit and there is no Zencore tax to access the full functionality so it is possible to programme some great stuff with this combination. I use this rig exclusively for guitar specific synth sounds and have not yet been persuaded I need anything more - If I need realistic keyboard sounds I use a keyboard, if I need traditional guitar I plug into an amp so this all works well in that context


Viabcroce

#5
Thanks to those who chimed in :)

It seems to me that Boss/Roland have deliberately chosen to not design an all-in-one unit.
Personally, I don't find this a great idea, because there are budget, real-estate and practicality reasons to not want to carry or set 2-3 different pedalboards for a gig, and a perfect solution would IMO be an SY-1000 able to play PCM samples.

I also dislike the idea of having to spend 200 € for just an interface from the traditional GK to the new standard which takes real estate, requires a further cable, needs to be empowered... and breaks like any other device. Specially because AFAIK there's no guitar on the market currently natively equipped with Serial GK
Given the number of musicians who I believe use the old standard all around the world, having it available as a further input in the unit would have been much better IMO (and of course cost less that 200 €).

Any further consideration from forumites will be welcome :)
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est

gumtown

The GR-55 would be the closest of an "all-in-one", it has a little bit of everything.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Viabcroce

So would seem gumtown :)
I only remember a post by Elantric mentioning it being sluggish when it comes to quick patch changes on stage (1/4" he says), in comparison with the GP-10.
He also mentioned something about Control switches and exp pedals.
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est

gumtown

Using CTL and EXP along with programmable "Assigns" makes changing GR-55 settings and tones quick without having to change patch.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

whippinpost91850

Agree 100 %    I was hoping for a GR55 replacement. And while the GM800 does track a little better. It's onboard sounds, just don't work for me.

Viabcroce

Quote from: gumtown on December 11, 2023, 11:36:48 AMUsing CTL and EXP along with programmable "Assigns" makes changing GR-55 settings and tones quick without having to change patch.

Ah thanks, nice to know :)
(I wonder why he did not mention this when comparing it to the GP-10.)
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est

Viabcroce

Gathering all I've been learning and hearing till now, it seems that best bang for the buck for someone with already great guitar sounds at their disposal (Kemper) and looking for alt tunings and some synth sounds would be a GR-55.

Can it save alt tunings per patch?
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est

Elantric


whippinpost91850

Quote from: Viabcroce on December 12, 2023, 01:12:52 AMGathering all I've been learning and hearing till now, it seems that best bang for the buck for someone with already great guitar sounds at their disposal (Kemper) and looking for alt tunings and some synth sounds would be a GR-55.

Can it save alt tunings per patch?
I'm still using My GR55 with my Kemper