GK-5 BASS Mode latency HELP

Started by fanoftheliving, February 19, 2024, 11:58:43 AM

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fanoftheliving

Dear all -

   Maybe someone can help me.  I purchased the GM-800 and the GK-5B pickup, which I installed. 
 
   Unfortunately I am having really bad latency issues which makes this system barely (if at all) playable.  I've poured over the documentation and settings, but see nothing obvious.

   Interestingly when I try to adjust the sensitivity on the pickup, there is no latency and I can hear the sound just fine. 

   But any patch that I might create or play has noticeable latency.  Has anyone experienced this?  Anything I can try/do?  Thanks in advance.  I love the sounds and the ease with which one might program this unit (I also own SY-1000). 

       

Elantric

#1
GM-800 latency exists, and  will not be as low as the VGuitar / VBass Modeling in SY-1000

As with all pitch to MIDI systems, GM-800 Latency is  much higher with Bass instruments

But GM-800 latency is dependent on the current patch, Dynamics, Play feel,  Low Velocity cut , etc.  This thread provides  fine tuning details for GM-800 with GK-5

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=36028.0#msg264199

And read Gumtowns GM-800 with Bass posts
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=36723.0#msg270005

fanoftheliving

Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments - I will tinker.  I've reviewed the links you shared and I did try a lot of what is in there, sadly none of that stuff addresses latency. This for now seems unfixable.   
So for now I have had little success.  You are correct, some sounds have less latency then others, but I bought it mostly to play some bass thru it, and this is just not working out - I can't even play a simple walking bass line, the latency makes it very awkward.  I can of course mix it with the pickup from the bass, but again, I was hoping not to have to do that.

I will tinker for another week if anyone has any other thoughts. 

Do you think some bases are more suitable than others?

gumtownadmin

Bass to midi will always have latency, increasing as you play lower.
GK setup needs to be right, I set mine to 70% fullscale on the gk sensitivity meters, most scenes in the master section, I will adjust the velocity lowcut to 5.

Possibly the GM-800 us not what you want, the SY-1000 is much better for bass, although a different type of synth (more akin yo analog synths), but has near zero latency.
Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else.

fanoftheliving

Thank you for your comments - this is the same conclusion I am coming to.  I already have a SY-1000 and I really love it but use it for guitar only.  I will be getting a second one I guess. I was hoping to have a GM-800 for my bass, but I don't think it's going to happen sadly, it's just not playable.  I  don't understand how Roland could make a product like this - what's the point? Maybe it works better for guitar.  Oh well, I digress - I wasted a ton of time on this unit to try and make it work.

gumtown

I am very happy with my combo of SY-1000 + GM-800,
it does what I need for bass, the GM-800 is used more for background pads, organs, and so forth,
SY-1000 does the leading instrument, and both are mixed into a hybrid tone.

FWIW: the SY-1000 has two modes, guitar mode, and bass mode,
 where all the System/global/GK settings and User patches are different/separate set for each mode.
 so no need to get a second SY-1000 just for bass, unless needing both at the same time.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

fanoftheliving

#6
Well, I give up.  Sending this unit back to Sweetwater. To recap, I can not set it up with a GK-5B to track properly, latency being the real problem.  I tried both serial cables, the 15 and the 30 with the same result.  GM-800, after updating to the firmware also seems to have some bugs in it, every once in a while I've had to either re-load the patch or restart the unit.  It is true that some ambient sounds are "ok-ish" from the perspective of latency and tracking, but I should be able to play sharp attack notes convincingly - and I can not.  Perhaps the bass guitar I am using doen't work well with this unit, not sure of course.  The irony is that I can not play a synthesized bass sound on my bass.  :(

I want to thank everyone who responded - I appreciate your time.

gumtown

#7
Did you have the pickup mounted as close to the bridge as possible and as close to the strings without touching (1~3mm gap) ?

Strange why it is not working for you ? I have very little issues, there is some latency on the E and Low B strings, but on the other strings I can play 1/16th notes on most GM-800 scenes, after I had sorted out the ground loop humm caused from other connected equipment interfering with the GM-800 pitch reading (sharing of common/daisy chained power supplies).

Quote from: fanoftheliving on February 22, 2024, 03:14:48 PMevery once in a while I've had to either re-load the patch or restart the unit.
What was the behavior that lead to this happening , stuck notes ? I had this problem when I had the ground loop issues, noise getting into the input signal and causing tracking and stuck note issues, which disappeared as soon as the noise problem was fixed.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

#8
If you must embark on the road of "Bass Synth" - a wired Fretboard MIDI controller has lowest latency

Steve Chick MIDI BASS
https://industrialradio.com.au/products/ir-j4-midi-bass/
https://industrialradio.com.au/
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32253.0#msg238785

(Same technology as Peavey CyberBass )
https://reverb.com/item/4297875-peavey-cyberbass-iv-midi-controller-bass-guitar-kurzweil-sound-module

But with todays range of quality stand alone effects pedals, and most Bass Players never play chords ,
There are effects pedals catered towards Bass.

Panda Audio Future Impact

https://www.panda-audio.com/futureimpact


Or VB-99, or SY-1000 in Bass Mode, or the COSM Models of GR-55 in Bass Mode will provide much lower latency than any pitch to MIDI system (BASS MODE of GM-800, GR-55 PCM, GR-20)

BROCKSTAR

Quote from: Elantric on February 22, 2024, 03:35:32 PMIf you must embark on the road of "Bass Synth" - a wired Fretboard MIDI controller has lowest latency

But with todays range of quality stand alone effects pedals, and most Bass Players never play chords , a VB-99, or SY-1000 in Bass Mode, or the CODM Models of GR-55 in Bass Mode will provide much lower latency than any pitch to MIDI system ( GM-800)

Or Source Audio C4 or Panda Audio Future Impact

fanoftheliving

#10
Quote from: gumtown on February 22, 2024, 03:32:27 PMDid you have the pickup mounted as close to the bridge as possible and as close to the strings without touching (1~3mm gap) ?

Strange why it is not working for you ? I have very little issues, there is some latency on the E and Low B strings, but on the other strings I can play 1/16th notes on most GM-800 scenes, after I had sorted out the ground loop humm caused from other connected equipment interfering with the GM-800 pitch reading (sharing of common/daisy chained power supplies).
What was the behavior that lead to this happening , stuck notes ? I had this problem when I had the ground loop issues, noise getting into the input signal and causing tracking and stuck note issues, which disappeared as soon as the noise problem was fixed.

1.  Yes, I have (had)  it very close to the strings within the specified range.  With respect to the bridge here is the picture, I hope it comes thru:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fgdFAyLzdb3uV4eE8HZa4DkelKz1ksqM/view?usp=drive_link



2.  I am not sure what led to the odd behavior - I didn't spend a lot of time figuring it out.


fanoftheliving

Quote from: Elantric on February 22, 2024, 03:35:32 PMIf you must embark on the road of "Bass Synth" - a wired Fretboard MIDI controller has lowest latency

Steve Chick MIDI BASS
https://industrialradio.com.au/products/ir-j4-midi-bass/
https://industrialradio.com.au/
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32253.0#msg238785

But with todays range of quality stand alone effects pedals, and most Bass Players never play chords ,
There are effects pedals catered towards Bass.

Panda Audio Future Impact

https://www.panda-audio.com/futureimpact


Or VB-99, or SY-1000 in Bass Mode, or the COSM Models of GR-55 in Bass Mode will provide much lower latency than any pitch to MIDI system ( GM-800)

Thank you, this is interesting, I didn't know about the midi bass.

gumtown

Quote from: fanoftheliving on February 22, 2024, 03:54:03 PM1.  Yes, I have (had)  it very close to the strings within the specified range.  With respect to the bridge here is the picture, I hope it comes thru:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fgdFAyLzdb3uV4eE8HZa4DkelKz1ksqM/view?usp=drive_link



2.  I am not sure what led to the odd behavior - I didn't spend a lot of time figuring it out.



The placement looks ok in the picture, in the GM-800 GK Setup menu, the pickup selected to "GK-5B" with the GK PU Position set to "5STR lo1" ?
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

fanoftheliving

Quote from: gumtown on February 22, 2024, 04:59:46 PMThe placement looks ok in the picture, in the GM-800 GK Setup menu, the pickup selected to "GK-5B" with the GK PU Position set to "5STR lo1" ?

Yes, that's correct.  Everything plays properly, except for the latency and random glitch notes, although the latter can be tamed by various settings in the master control section.