GK-3 with with individually adjustable pickups

Started by Yaman, June 02, 2020, 05:34:18 AM

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luca9583

Quote from: Chrismiami on April 23, 2023, 03:48:05 PMDefinitely using the KIT!

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OMG I wouldn't have thought this far ahead but yeah, now I think about it this is spot-on advice!! I'm sorry if you learned this the hard way! 8)

I was thinking about roping in a friend to do some 3D printing for the housing...
 s
Thank you so much! It's so nice to have a pioneer on my side! 👍

No probs...yeah i think out of the two full kits i chopped up for two different guitars, i ended up with 2 dead sensors. One was fried by the iron and the other just didn't work.

I'm interested in your project and why you want to chop them up. Is there an issue with string spacing or mounting? If not, you could just keep the pickup as it is and just rehouse it without chopping it. I'm sure there's a specific reason for it.

It's worth noting that if you start chopping from the opposite end to where the wires come out of the whole pickup, the remaining unchopped sensors still function through the stock wires, so what i did for the two lowest strings of both my 7 string guitars was to chop 4 off and keep two still wired to the original wires to keep it simple.

It proves that with a bit more thought and better marketing, Roland could make this pickup system modular and much more versatile.

Chrismiami

Quote from: luca9583 on April 23, 2023, 04:28:08 PMI'm interested in your project and why you want to chop them up. Is there an issue with string spacing or mounting? If not, you could just keep the pickup as it is and just rehouse it without chopping it. I'm sure there's a specific reason for it.

I'm installing into a Steinberger Spirit (the modern wooden kind) and the string spacing is slimmer than whatever the pickup was designed for. So one of the E strings gets no love. Plus, only one string can cross the center of a magnet - all the others are off to one side or the other.

I had intended to just crank up sensitivity and hope for the best but chopping them is really the "right" way to do it!

I totally agree that Roland doesn't appreciate just what they have here. It'd be no trouble for them to design some sort of rail to allow them to be adjustable to different string spacings!


luca9583

Quote from: Chrismiami on April 23, 2023, 04:57:47 PMI'm installing into a Steinberger Spirit (the modern wooden kind) and the string spacing is slimmer than whatever the pickup was designed for. So one of the E strings gets no love. Plus, only one string can cross the center of a magnet - all the others are off to one side or the other.

I had intended to just crank up sensitivity and hope for the best but chopping them is really the "right" way to do it!

I totally agree that Roland doesn't appreciate just what they have here. It'd be no trouble for them to design some sort of rail to allow them to be adjustable to different string spacings!



Make sense. Before you chop away, have you got enough space between the bridge and bridge pickup to angle the GK pickup to achieve the correct string spacing? This is what i did on another guitar without having to modify the pickup at all. After that i just adjusted the bridge to pickup distances per string in the settings of my VG-99. That was with a GK2A which is slightly narrower than a GK3A. Works perfectly.

Elantric

#28
QuoteI'm installing into a Steinberger Spirit (the modern wooden kind) and the string spacing is slimmer than whatever the pickup was designed for

fwiw.



Show your GK Guitar
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=359.100#msg15711 >:(

Chrismiami

Quote from: Elantric on April 23, 2023, 05:21:27 PMfwiw.



Show your GK Guitar
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=359.100#msg15711 >:(

Yep. You can see how the E strings are barely over the pickups, and if we had a top-down view it'd look even worse.

As I said, it's probably workable but why not make it perfect?

luca9583

Quote from: Chrismiami on April 24, 2023, 06:52:34 AMYep. You can see how the E strings are barely over the pickups, and if we had a top-down view it'd look even worse.

As I said, it's probably workable but why not make it perfect?

Yep makes sense. You could mod the existing GK to be narrower by only chopping in the middle and keeping the stock wiring of the first 3 strings, and then re-locate the wires for the other 3 strings. That would only require one chop. Another user here did that and it worked well.

Anyway..looking forward to seeing the finished product.

luca9583

Quote from: billbax on April 23, 2023, 10:48:21 PMAs there are no commercially available GK sensors with individual height/center mag adjustments, GK mag users might be better off with a safe +10dB GK2/3 op-amp gain-resistor mod.

Would this provide less crosstalk where the sensors don't align well with different string spacings, or just a better signal regardless?

luca9583

Quote from: billbax on April 24, 2023, 11:12:32 AMNo, crosstalk on a GK3 is at best 35dB, but can go as low as 7-8dB when playing related notes.

Thanks Bill..yeah that's what i thought. The Extreme would be a great upgrade (in kit form especially) but there's only one solution for the string spacing issue ha! Chop chop chop...

 A slight off topic request but it would be great to really hear the difference between stock GK3 and GK Extreme on the actual modelled COSM sounds going into a good overdriven amp without any noise gates (no noise gate in the Cosm model itself and also no other gates). Overdrive is where the noise starts to show up, but actually the most audible noise when distorting tends to be the inherent hiss in the COSM models that are a result of the match eq being applied to model the pickups and guitars etc, which i'm pretty sure is why Roland included a noise supressor in the actual COSM models.

I can definitely hear a fuller and slightly brighter signal in the Extreme's raw audio.

Anyway, regarding crosstalk, i find that having the sensors line up correctly with the strings and to be as close as possible to the strings is definitely the most important element. I've had some string bleed on guitars with narrower than standard spacing, which i then eliminated by mounting the GK at an angle. Compared to other hex pickups i've tried, the low level of crosstalk in the various GKs is pretty great.

Adjustable spacing and height would be superb, it would just be a case of designing a modular style housing that could accommodate more than 6 sensors. The GK3's radius is pretty awkward, especially for guitars that are set up with super low action.

Chrismiami

Quote from: luca9583 on April 24, 2023, 11:39:08 AMAnyway, regarding crosstalk, i find that having the sensors line up correctly with the strings and to be as close as possible to the strings is definitely the most important element. I've had some string bleed on guitars with narrower than standard spacing, which i then eliminated by mounting the GK at an angle. Compared to other hex pickups i've tried, the low level of crosstalk in the various GKs is pretty great.

I wonder, do you think a little wall made of mu-metal between the magnets would help that at all? Or maybe wrapping the edges of the magnets with it?

Chrismiami

@Yaman in the last pic of your first post, you show the pickup on the guitar and it's obvious each one has it's own height but - what is the mechanism you used for that?  Are they just tightly pressed so if you pry them up using the hole in front, they just stay there? Or is there a camshaft/egg-shaped cog under them?  🤔

Chrismiami

So, I removed all the electronics from my Steinberger in order to work easier while I'm having it repainted — and OMG it's scary!

What I thought was supposed to look like this, with nice, neat connections only to the terminals

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Ended up looking like this!

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Why are so many wires soldered to the housing of the pot?? What does that even do? And why does it seem like they selected specific locations around it? Are these all just groundings?

Elantric

#36
Its the "Star Ground" point -to prevent ground loop noise.

They have referenced all cable braided shields to one common ground point on back of the Potentiometer can.

(But dont search on "Star Ground" using ChaptGPT)




Yaman

Quote from: Chrismiami on April 24, 2023, 12:37:17 PM@Yaman in the last pic of your first post, you show the pickup on the guitar and it's obvious each one has it's own height but - what is the mechanism you used for that?  Are they just tightly pressed so if you pry them up using the hole in front, they just stay there? Or is there a camshaft/egg-shaped cog under them?  🤔
No, there are little screws for each pickup.

Chrismiami

Quote from: Yaman on April 25, 2023, 01:13:08 PMNo, there are little screws for each pickup.


How do the screws raise/lower them? Are they attached to a tiny cam disk?

Elantric

#39
He posted pics

Each pu coil sits in a U-Channel and side screws secure each in place

To adjust each coil, diassemble - adjust coil height, tighten screw - then reinstall complete 6 channel divided pickup on guitar

Chrismiami

#40
Quote from: Elantric on April 25, 2023, 02:04:20 PMHe posted pics

Each pu coil sits in a U-Channel and side screws secure each in place

To adjust each coil, diassemble - adjust coil height, tighten screw - then reinstall complete 6 channel divided pickup on guitar

I'd bet instead one can just loosen the screw, raise or lower the individual pickup using fingers by pulling up/pushing down, then tighten the screw.

luca9583

@Yaman do you know if the individual chopped pickups can be wired from the two terminals on the top of each pickup (ground and hot?) or are these terminals not usable?

Would be useful to know as it would make mounting the chopped pickups easier by having the wires soldered to the top instead of under

Yaman

Quote from: luca9583 on February 07, 2024, 08:34:47 PM@Yaman do you know if the individual chopped pickups can be wired from the two terminals on the top of each pickup (ground and hot?) or are these terminals not usable?
If you mean the two marked terminals in the photo: yes, but you should note that the pickup wires are also soldered there and are very sensitive.

peterdpham

Quote from: Yaman on July 17, 2020, 11:49:26 PMHi Jim,

I have some pictures. If you have any questions please ask.

Yaman


where can I buy those 6 individual pickup?  I tried to install to my classical guitar but the original GK3 divided pickup not lined up with my classical guitar strings. so I need to build one like yours.

Elantric

Quote from: peterdpham on March 05, 2024, 04:53:47 PMwhere can I buy those 6 individual pickup?  I tried to install to my classical guitar but the original GK3 divided pickup not lined up with my classical guitar strings. so I need to build one like yours.

Gk-3 is a magnetic  pickup, will not work with most Nylon Strings

Unless you use these
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=670.100#msg160002

Brent Flash


peterdpham

Quote from: Yaman on June 02, 2020, 05:34:18 AMI had a GK-3 pickup without housing. So I decided to build a new one with individually adjustable pickups.
Where to buy those pickup?
I would like to build one for my classical guitar.  The classical guitar has a wider neck that strings won't line up.
Thank you.

Elantric

#47
Quote from: peterdpham on March 15, 2024, 01:23:12 PMWhere to buy those pickup?
I would like to build one for my classical guitar.  The classical guitar has a wider neck that strings won't line up.
Thank you.

Buy a used GK-3 for parts

Roland /Boss do not sell internal GK-3 pickup components

Then use Iron content Thomastik-Infeld KR116 Nylon strings, so magnetic GK pickup will work on Classical Guitar
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=670.100#msg160002

luca9583

Quote from: peterdpham on March 15, 2024, 01:23:12 PMWhere to buy those pickup?
I would like to build one for my classical guitar.  The classical guitar has a wider neck that strings won't line up.
Thank you.

How wide is the string spacing?

Maybe a GK 3B bass pickup mounted at an angle could work. We would need precise measurements of string spacing of the guitar and of the GK 3 Bass pickup.

If not, you will need to chop up an existing GK-3 into 6 individual pickups, wire them as per Yaman's mod and then come up with some kind of housing for them with Sugru adhesive or similar.

Or, you could look at Cycfi modular pickups