GR-55 - Synth Sound Guidance

Started by seanhogge, April 15, 2013, 07:30:10 AM

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seanhogge

The cover band I play with has just been asked to play a glam rock tribute on April 28th.

I'd like to close our 5-song set with Jobriath's "Gone Tommorrow" so that I can show off my GR-55 skills (no, wait, I mean skillz) and I need some help. I'm working from this:



During the intro, there's this slow-phased synthy low end. Yes, it's a very common sort of sound and I probably should know exactly what it is, but what can I say: to paraphrase Roger Murtaugh, "I'm too young for this sh**."

Can anyone give me a quick description of what that is? Any tips on achieving that sound would also be welcome, though all I really need is a starting place so I don't have to start blind. I'll describe my plan in more detail below if it matters. If not, then waste no time by reading further!


Ok, so. I'm thinking of putting the piano on the top 5 strings, and just sticking that synth slow-phase on the 6th that I can just bang on it to let it ride while I play the piano line on top (possibly looped, possibly not). Then I'll have my control switch bring in the guitar model and turn off the bottom synth. My lead singer can cover the acoustic part, so after that, I'll just need to decide where I want piano and where I want guitar, which might take some tweaking. I don't want to do a note-for-note, but I want to get as close as is reasonable.

Mrchevy

If you can find a patch that has a similar synth sound, try setting the tone an octave or 2 down. Maybe a bass synth?
Gibson Les Paul Custom
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Princeton chorus 210

GT100
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And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Bill Ruppert

That guy was brilliant!
Sad story but man he shined bright when he was here.


seanhogge

Very, true, Bill. I had almost no knowledge of his existence until this last minute, fill-a-vacated-spot gig fell in my lap.

Mrchevy, it definitely sounds like a synth bass with just a slow phaser to me, but I wasn't sure it was that simple. I thought there might be some other PCM tone that would be a better fit. I'm not a gear/effect type of fellow, normally, so I like to get advice from the guys who can really take a sound apart and explain it.

shawnb

That's definitely a synth bass.  The swooshing, I'm pretty sure, is a filter.  You may want to dial in a synth sound, assign your exp pedal to a filter, and experiment with the filter settings, including adding just a little resonance.  I think it's either a low pass or a PKG (peaking, notch) filter. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

seanhogge

Quote from: shawnb on April 15, 2013, 11:27:18 AM
That's definitely a synth bass.  The swooshing, I'm pretty sure, is a filter.  You may want to dial in a synth sound, assign your exp pedal to a filter, and experiment with the filter settings, including adding just a little resonance.  I think it's either a low pass or a PKG (peaking, notch) filter.

Thank you muchly, shawnb. That's exactly where I'll begin and see what I can come up with.

papabuss

Yes, (Bass)synth with MFX LoFi (No.19)
Just what my ears realize.....with assigning the right parameters with your Exp-pedal.
FENDER STRATOCASTER (1974); BRIAN MAY RED SPECIAL; VG 99; GR 55; Yamaha DX 7

Music was my first love and it will be my last (JOHN MILES)

mockchoi

I think Sweep Pad 4, # 677 is similar to this?

seanhogge

Well, I'm sorry to say that I couldn't figure out a way to make shawnb's suggestion work. Mostly because I have no knowledge of filters. But I did find "synth bass 9" which does that sort of phase sweep thing. Then I futzed with the TVA and TVF parameters (I have no idea what most of those do beyond understanding the English meaning of their labels, but I increased the attack, reduced the resonance and gave it a bit of high pass). Now, I'm able to hit my 6th string, let it ring, and play to piano lick on top. It does the sound all on its own, nice and slow.

I'm curious now about your other suggestions, however. Time to duplicate the patch (as a backup) and retweak!

Elantric

#9
QuoteVery, true, Bill. I had almost no knowledge of his existence until this last minute, fill-a-vacated-spot gig fell in my lap.
I only recall the backlash in 1974 with his appearance on Midnight Special.
Interesting read by his Keyboard Player (Hayden Wayne)  here:  (Seems a mini-Moog was the source of bulk synth sounds on Jobriath records) In my world he had 15 minutes of fame, then forgotten.
http://www.newmillenniumrecords.com/indulgence.html

QuoteWell, I'm sorry to say that I couldn't figure out a way to make shawnb's suggestion work. Mostly because I have no knowledge of filters

This thread has links to improve your knowledge

GR-55 Top Things to Know
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0

==
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.msg30460#msg30460

Looks like the Roland SD-90 Studio Canvas Owners Manual is a Must Read for GR-55 Owners interested in mastering the PCM Synth Engine.
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811325/SD-90_e3.pdf


If you are clueless about all these PCM Synth parameters and settings and how they inter-operate

see this post and download the Analog Synthesis Primer by Martin Russ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6418.msg44034#msg44034



shawnb

Quote from: seanhogge on April 16, 2013, 11:16:48 AM
Well, I'm sorry to say that I couldn't figure out a way to make shawnb's suggestion work. Mostly because I have no knowledge of filters.

For starters, I'd go to your bass synth PCM voice parameters and do the following:
1) set FILTER TYPE to LPF
2) set RESONANCE to +3
3) Start playing this PCM synth sound.  While doing so, vary CUTOFF # all over the place, from -50 to +50.   Find your sweet low & hi spot, it is often something like -10 to +30.   

All a filter is is another way to do EQ.  The way it's setup makes it easy to tweak the filter while in use, as it is in the original recording.  This helps you get nice swooshes & wah effects. 

Continue your experimentation:
- vary the filter types while reading their descriptions.  Picture in your mind a nice EQ VST while doing so...
- try different values of resonance.   Resonance boosts frequencies adjacent to the cutoff frequency.  Be careful here, as high values produce almost chaotic effects.   I suspect you just want a little resonance, in the 0 to +6 range.

Your biggest decision is whether you want to control the swoosh with your FOOT, or if you want it fading in & out automatically.   To control it with your foot, you will do an assign, associating your EXP pedal (as source) with the CUTOFF # (as target).  This way you can do it with your foot instead of varying the CUTOFF # by hand during the performance.   

If you want this done automatically, you will use a LFO, a low frequency oscillator.  Read up on LFO1 TVF DEPTH.  and LFO1 RATE.  The LFO automatically swings the CUTOFF # back in forth, instead of using your hands or feet...   The RATE tells the GR-55 how FAST to do so.  For starters, experiment with the various BPM values here and various VERY LOW non-zero values here.   The TVF DEPTH basically tells the filter how 'deeply' to apply the LFO filter.   For starters, experiment with +5 to +30. 

Most of all, have fun flailing away!!!!   ;D

Pages 26 & 27 of the manual are your friends.  Read 'em a few times. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

seanhogge

elantric, shawnb, I haven't dived into that information yet, but I'm already thankful for it. I haven't really made a huge effort to figure that stuff out yet, so it's great that you've painted the starting line for me right here. This is a great help to someone totally fresh to all of this, so thank you.