Looking at getting a Parker Fly Mojo MIDI

Started by ArKay99, May 11, 2011, 09:06:46 AM

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ArKay99

I'm looking at getting a guitar for a Roland GR-55, as a dedicated guitar for that box. I have a few other guitars, but this Parker has everything I think I'd need. The tremolo, lightweight, carbon fiber fingerbd and 24 stainless frets. It's really expensive, at least for me, so I'd at least like to play one before I put all that hard earned coin down. But I'd also like to know if anyone has experience with this beautiful instrument. Especially how it performs with the GK pickup.

I just saw this thread, https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1965.0
but there wasn't much info in there about it's midi operation, i.e. tracking, etc.

paults

Have you ever played any Parker? Depending on how short your strap is, that upper cutaway may hit you in the rib cage or sternum.    Also, does the lack of fret markers matter? I'm not knocking them, they play great - with a different neck/fingerboard profile than other guitars.

Here's a Devils Advocate thought: At that price point, you could likely get a new or recent example of your favorite guitar, have it shipped to the best person in the country for GK internal installlation (and any other custom wiring that suits you) and have it shipped back. You might even be able to fly it with you to the tech, and "fly" back to get it when its done. Pun intended!






jwhitcomb3

I had an early Fly Deluxe and loved everything except the tone. The Mojo MIDI looks great, except for the price point. There are much cooler ways of blowing 4G!!

ArKay99

Quote from: paults on May 11, 2011, 09:28:38 AM
Have you ever played any Parker? Depending on how short your strap is, that upper cutaway may hit you in the rib cage or sternum.    Also, does the lack of fret markers matter? I'm not knocking them, they play great - with a different neck/fingerboard profile than other guitars.

Here's a Devils Advocate thought: At that price point, you could likely get a new or recent example of your favorite guitar, have it shipped to the best person in the country for GK internal installlation (and any other custom wiring that suits you) and have it shipped back. You might even be able to fly it with you to the tech, and "fly" back to get it when its done. Pun intended!
No, I haven't, that's why I want to play one before I just go out and order one. Also, I wasn't sure if there were fret markers on the top of the neck.

The other guitar I was thinking of getting is an Ibanez RG920M and having a good luthier do the GK-3 install for me. It's got a great tremolo system and a full 24 fret Prestige neck. It looks just like the RG1520, except it doesn't have the pickup.

Thanks for the feedback!  ;)

onemoreguitar

I have a '96 Deluxe and Mojo Spring both equipped with a GK external PU.  I suggest going on the Parker forum and looking for a used Fly then have the GK installed yourself.  Just make sure you get a refined Fly.  They have more room in the body cavity.  Used Parkers are a lot cheaper than you would expect.

Kevin M

I'm the owner of the Parker you referenced. It's an amazing guitar, but I would shop around for a good price, or even a used one if you can. One thing: no piezo in the mag blend via the GK cable. Also, you can only get a mono signal from the normal output jack when you are using the GK pickup.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

mbenigni

QuoteI had an early Fly Deluxe and loved everything except the tone.
Same here.  It's the perfect guitar except for the electronics, which are overcomplicated and sound kind of limp to boot.  My newer MIDIFly's, on the other hand, play and sound great.  (Ironically, I was never thrilled with the onboard MIDIAxe electronics, and have even considered putting my GK3 on one of them!)

carlgt1

I've been thinking about this too, as the second-half of my gig-from-hell the other night (where I unveiled my new GR55 and failed - see other thread ;-) I was using someone's Parker Fly.  I really liked it - the playability and the light weight.  I found it was tonally diverse (I ended up going through a Line 6 amp) as I had to do country chicken-pick as well as some jazz standards and straight out heavy rock. 

The prices are ghastly though, about $4K street for the Mojo MIDI and $9K from the Adrian Belew model I'd like to really get?  I don't see what the hell justifies those huge markups considering the base price is around $2K-$2.5K?  I mean it's like $1.5K to integrate a GK3?  and $7K extra for a GK3 & Sustainiac pickup & Line6 gtr modeling? 

ArKay99

OK, I found a 2009 Parker Fly Classic on eBay for about 1/2 what they go for new. This one looks mint and was only taken out of it's case once by a grandmother to play at church one sunday... :-) . Seriously, it looks great. It should be here on Fri or Mon. Now I'm just a bit concerned about the amount of space between the pickup and the bridge. The Mojo MIDI's have the bridge pickup mounted a few cm's further away from the bridge to fit the pickup. I'll doc this as I go along in case there's interest.

mbenigni

#9
QuoteThe prices are ghastly though, about $4K street for the Mojo MIDI and $9K from the Adrian Belew model I'd like to really get?  I don't see what the hell justifies those huge markups considering the base price is around $2K-$2.5K?  I mean it's like $1.5K to integrate a GK3?  and $7K extra for a GK3 & Sustainiac pickup & Line6 gtr modeling? 
I agree with you ... to a point.  I'm the biggest Parker fan in the world - I genuinely believe it's the best solid body guitar you can buy - but the upcharge for MIDI is off-putting.  Realistically, though, it boils down to availability, and the fact that they only put MIDI on very high end models.  If you compare apples to apples, the Mojo w/ MIDI is only about $600 more than the Mojo.  It's just that you can probably scare up a Mojo for a bit less if you're resourceful, whereas the MIDI is almost definitely going to be ordered at the prescribed price.  So you start with one of their most expensive guitars to begin with, pay for the Roland hardware, plus Parker's custom SKU and the time for a good luthier to install (plus whatever complications this adds to the finishing process; Parker's paintjobs are an amazing bit of engineering in themselves), and then the niche market value on top of that... it adds up, but you've gotta really want it.   :) 

The Belew is a whole different level of that same problem - it's got a one-off trem design, colors they don't use on any other instrument, a modeling solution licensed from yet ANOTHER vendor, a sustainiac (again, not featured on any other instrument of theirs) and wow, talk about niche.  I'd be surprised if they sell 5 a year.  And if the rumors I heard are true, one of the primary engineers/techs behind that design passed away before it shipped... then Line 6 replaced the modeling technology before it got any real momentum... that guitar has had a rough trip.  So you've got to keep the price in perspective - it's a fan-service/ collector's piece, OR a piece for folks who really need ALL of those options, and can afford it.  Personally, I wouldn't even consider one until Parker makes some announcement re: JTV Variax technology, and even then...

A different way of looking at it is this:  you say you "really want" the Belew, and you must have a reason for that.  It really is a swiss army knife of a guitar, and I think it's awesome that Belew and Parker were so daring with it.  Now think about the number of people that will spend $10K on Gibson's latest collector's whatever for no better reason than it's got some particular finish on it, and Gibson says it's worth as much.

QuoteOK, I found a 2009 Parker Fly Classic on eBay for about 1/2 what they go for new...  Now I'm just a bit concerned about the amount of space between the pickup and the bridge.

Congrats, that's a great find!  FWIW, the GK pickup is a tight fit, but I haven't had any problem on my old Fly Deluxe (except that the GK mount manages to cover both the trem spring adjustment wheel AND the battery cover  :-\ probably not an issue on a 2009 Classic.)

aliensporebomb

The Vernon Reid model with the built in GK pickup and Floyd Rose looks appealing to me but the PRICE is enough to make me go, no way.

Maybe if someone gets bored with it and sells it used for a loss, I don't know.  $5000?  $7000?  $9000?  Who are they selling their instruments to?
Donald Trump?  Certainly not musicians of my acquaintance.  Even Belew must have felt a lump in his throat regarding the price of his signature
guitar.

And yeah the engineer who designed that guitar apparently was in some car accident that basically made him unable to work and depressed and in
Belew's blog it sounds like the guy just died - awful story really.

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

ArKay99

#11
Quote from: mbenigni on May 17, 2011, 06:22:01 AM
Congrats, that's a great find!  FWIW, the GK pickup is a tight fit, but I haven't had any problem on my old Fly Deluxe (except that the GK mount manages to cover both the trem spring adjustment wheel AND the battery cover  :-\ probably not an issue on a 2009 Classic.)
Thanks for the info. I'm going to be putting an internal kit on, so that will eliminate that issue. I'm looking at using a dual concentric pot for the MIDI volume and the guitar's master. I'm also going to be grabbing the audio out at the 1/4" out jack internally and making a small active combining network for the piezo/mag outputs to sum to a single source for the guitar in on the GK circuit board. This will allow me to run the 1/4" out 'untouched' but also let me feed the GK what is 'leaving' the guitar. This will also allow me to hardwire the toggle switch to the MIDI only select and 'bury' it on the cavity. I'm not 100% sold on this, because I think I may want the option of having the toggle to choose the source when I'm using just the 13 pin, however, that will be one less hole to be drilled...then there are the S1/S2 switches...oh, and the LED  ;)

mbenigni

#12
Quote from: aliensporebomb on May 18, 2011, 06:54:20 AM
The Vernon Reid model with the built in GK pickup and Floyd Rose looks appealing to me but the PRICE is enough to make me go, no way... Who are they selling their instruments to? Donald Trump?  Certainly not musicians of my acquaintance.
Well, not me either, certainly.  But again, you have to put it in perspective.  These are "signature" instruments and they're intended to cater to an "exclusive" market.  A good dose of perspective at $12K here:

http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-custom-don-felder-hotel-california-1959-les-paul-aged-signed-electric-guitar

or $3500 here:

http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fender-custom-shop-custom-artist-series-jeff-beck-signature-stratocaster-electric-guitar

The strat in particular is a bit glaring.  I mean, yes, there is considerable craftmanship on display with either instrument (arguably moreso with the LP), by the respective vendors' top-paid luthiers, probably, but aside from wood selection, these are essentially the same instuments as LPs/ strats with much lower price tags.  They're simply intended to be exclusive.  At least with the really high-end Parkers in question you're getting some technology you don't run into on any (or many) other production guitars.

Anyway, the market is out there, however small - guys who make tons of money, guys who don't have any other expensive hobbies (e.g. families LOL), guys who play (professionally) every night and genuinely need that oddball set of features they can't find elsewhere...  But yeah, not me.  I have to respect the checking account and find my own cheesy MacGyver solutions. :)

QuoteAnd yeah the engineer who designed that guitar apparently was in some car accident that basically made him unable to work and depressed and in Belew's blog it sounds like the guy just died - awful story really.
Man, that is tragic. 

mbenigni

Quote from: ArKay99 on May 18, 2011, 07:05:22 AM
Thanks for the info. I'm going to be putting an internal kit on, so that will eliminate that issue. I'm looking at using a dual concentric pot for the MIDI volume and the guitar's master. I'm also going to be grabbing the audio out at the 1/4" out jack internally and making a small active combining network for the piezo/mag outputs to sum to a single source for the guitar in on the GK circuit board. This will allow me to run the 1/4" out 'untouched' but also let me feed the GK what is 'leaving' the guitar. This will also allow me to hardwire the toggle switch to the MIDI only select and 'bury' it on the cavity. I'm not 100% sold on this, because I think I may want the option of having the toggle to choose the source when I'm using just the 13 pin, however, that will be one less hole to be drilled...then there are the S1/S2 switches...oh, and the LED  ;)
PLEASE take a LOT of photos as you go along, and post them along with your thoughts here.  I would love to see how this works out for you!  The Fly is a difficult guitar to modify because of its thin profile and its unusual finish. (The latter is just a hunch actually, but I'm terrified to drill into a Fly.)  Please keep us informed if at all possible.  Thanks!

Kevin M

Quote from: aliensporebomb on May 18, 2011, 06:54:20 AM
The Vernon Reid model with the built in GK pickup and Floyd Rose looks appealing to me but the PRICE is enough to make me go, no way.

Maybe if someone gets bored with it and sells it used for a loss, I don't know.  $5000?  $7000?  $9000?  Who are they selling their instruments to?
Donald Trump?  Certainly not musicians of my acquaintance.  Even Belew must have felt a lump in his throat regarding the price of his signature
guitar.

And yeah the engineer who designed that guitar apparently was in some car accident that basically made him unable to work and depressed and in
Belew's blog it sounds like the guy just died - awful story really.

Deals on these can be found.  I picked up a new Vernon Reid model last year for half price!

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

dayn

E-mail me if you have Parker MIDI Fly questions...i have had 26 Parker Fly's, and out of those 3 had RMC pickups, and 2 had GK's.


mbenigni

Quote from: kmaus10 on May 18, 2011, 11:24:06 AM
Deals on these can be found.  I picked up a new Vernon Reid model last year for half price!
Half list or half street?  Are we talking $3K vs $6K??  If so, wow and congrats!

Quotei have had 26 Parker Fly's, and out of those 3 had RMC pickups, and 2 had GK's.
Do you have a photo gallery online anywhere?  I'd love to see this collection.  Were the GKs factory-installed or aftermarket?

ArKay99

Quote from: dayn on May 18, 2011, 09:41:36 PM
E-mail me if you have Parker MIDI Fly questions...i have had 26 Parker Fly's, and out of those 3 had RMC pickups, and 2 had GK's.

Wow. Thanks for the offer. I'm sure I will have some questions once I get the guitar and midi stuff in my hands.

ArKay99

Quote from: mbenigni on May 18, 2011, 09:28:04 AM
PLEASE take a LOT of photos as you go along, and post them along with your thoughts here.  I would love to see how this works out for you!  The Fly is a difficult guitar to modify because of its thin profile and its unusual finish. (The latter is just a hunch actually, but I'm terrified to drill into a Fly.)  Please keep us informed if at all possible.  Thanks!

I will certainly do so. Sometimes a project can be less terrifying if there's an outlet for the pain.  ;)

Kevin M

Quote from: mbenigni on May 19, 2011, 09:21:40 AMHalf list or half street?  Are we talking $3K vs $6K??  If so, wow and congrats!

Yep. $3K! Best score I've made in years.  At that price, well worth it.

mbenigni

Quote from: kmaus10 on May 19, 2011, 10:56:05 AM
Yep. $3K! Best score I've made in years.  At that price, well worth it.
I'll say.  That's an amazing score.  You must have been walking on air on the way out of the shop.  :)

ArKay99

#21
Ok, I got the guitar. It is absolutely mint. Not one scratch or blemish! I adjusted the action, and tweaked the neck truss and this guitar is really wonderful. I haven't recieved my internal GK MIDI kit yet, but after pulling the back panel off and seeing what I'm up against it looks as though I'm going to be drilling a hole for the MIDI volume, the MIDI source select switch, and a mom-off-mom toggle switch for the S1/S2 -up/down switches, thanks Elantric for the idea. I'm not sure what to do about the LED, but the reason for having it visible will be apparent later. I started the design for my audio buffer feed to sum the mag pups and the piezos from the output jack without making them mono. I also included on this board a relay that will switch the battery out of the power circuit for the guitar's active electronics and feed the guitar's electonics with the feed from the 13 pin jack. I have to pull the guitar's active elctronics board and a reverse engineer a schematic so I can see if it will run on the +15V from that pin on the 13 pin. If it's an issue I could use a shunt regulated 9V. The board iteslf has all this functionality built into it and it's only 1"x1.5" thanks to SMT. I've attached a pic of th schematic, and of the PC board. It's been run through Spice and performs well there.


Elantric

QuoteI have to pull the guitar's active elctronics board and a reverse engineer a schematic so I can see if it will run on the +15V from that pin on the 13 pin.


FWIW - the Roland 13 pin cable has +7V and -7V

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0

ArKay99

Quote from: Elantric on May 23, 2011, 03:41:38 PM

FWIW - the Roland 13 pin cable has +7V and -7V

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0

Right! I was looking at a different cable that had both +7/-7 and +15/-15. This will actually make things a bit easier...I just have to re-do the design. That's why forums are a great place to discuss ideas. Thank you again. I'll post up the new design when it gets finalized.

ArKay99

I received my GK3 internal git. Looking at the GK3 pickup connector and the mate on the GK3 PC board. I realized I'm going to have have to de-pin the female (on the cable) so  can route it through the body behind the bridge pickup. I found the connector, after days of internet searching. Why does Roland do this? I believe they are trying to keep the electronics and pickup one unit...it would be great if they could at least allow you to buy the unit with the connector crimped and prepped but not pinned into the connector...but I'm sure there are a LOT of reasons for not doing so...I won't be able to un-pin this connector without taking a big chance of breaking it, and if I do, I'm sol, because these connectors, even though I found them, will be impossible to re implement without a large expense due to the crimp tool required to assemble them, if I could even obtain one.

Here is a link to the connector I believe they are using, in case anyone is interested: http://lhe.en.alibaba.com/product/315876479-210125646/1_5mm_Pitch_Terminal_Housing_Wafer_ZH_Connector_A1501_Series_.html

Since I'm going to have to separate the connector from the assembled cable I think I will also reverse the pickup wiring. This will enable me to mount the pickup 'upside down' with the GK3 pup cable exit at the bottom of the guitar. This will allow me to route it behind the Fly's bridge pickup and into the cavity and not have to drill a hole from the top of the guitar to somewhere on the rear.

I have one question for anyone who might know and has gotten this far through this post...

Is there a setup option on the GK-55 and the VG-99 to 'reverse' the pickup configuration? i.e. string 6 to string 1, string 5 to string 2. I won't have to reverse pin the assembly if this is the case.