Guitar to MIDI On/Off setting per patch?

Started by ddlooping, August 25, 2010, 08:06:44 PM

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ddlooping

Hi all :)

Is it impossible to set the "Guitar to MIDI" On/Off value per patch or am I missing something?
I can only find a global setting.  :-[
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

Brent Flash

No, you did not miss anything, that one is on the wish list or VG enhancement list or both. There have been a few threads on this and some users have resorted to putting volume pedals on the keyboard they are controlling to kill the MIDI sound when not needed or until they can turn it off by hand.

ddlooping

Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

paults

Program a patch on your synth that doesn't make any sound.

Set it to "On" globally, but assign the muted patch's number to VG patches that don't require the external synth.

ddlooping

Quote from: paults on August 26, 2010, 08:45:45 PM
Program a patch on your synth that doesn't make any sound.

Set it to "On" globally, but assign the muted patch's number to VG patches that don't require the external synth.
That's the plan. ;)
I just have to figure out how to do it using the FC-300 in SYS EX mode (until I have time to dwell into the Patch one). ;)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

Brent Flash

I think the SYSEX code for turning GUITAR TO MIDI ON/OFF was posted by a member sometime back, maybe a search will turn it up. It may also be in the owners manual.

ddlooping

Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

Brent Flash


ddlooping

Thanks again. :)

It does look like you need to be in Patch mode to access the FC-300 sys ex editing/sending ability though. :/
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

Brent Flash

Quote from: ddlooping on August 27, 2010, 07:38:19 AM
Thanks again. :)

It does look like you need to be in Patch mode to access the FC-300 sys ex editing/sending ability though. :/
I thought you were setting up PATCH MODE to send NOTE ON/OFF or was that someone else?

If you decided not to go down that road I understand completely, the PATCH MODE takes some very deep programming skills and a lot of thought to get a show programmed. But once you got it done it is done. I wonder if you can save the FC-300's memory to a SYSEX file for safe keeping? I have not thought about that, I would hate to do all that programming and then lose it with an FC-300 internal memory malfunction?  :o

I am sure I have seen a SYSEX dump command in there somewhere?  ???

ddlooping

Quote from: Brent Flash on August 27, 2010, 07:54:05 AM
I thought you were setting up PATCH MODE to send NOTE ON/OFF or was that someone else?
It was me and I will be using Patch Mode when I have the time to really get into it. :)
Right now I'm using SYSEX mode because I have to get my basic set-up ready asap. ;)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

musicman65

Like they said. Program a patch in your synth and call it "no sound" and turn the gains down in the synth patch so it's dead quiet. My Bank 00 PC 01 is set that way. In the vg99, set the MIDI patch to multi and set the LSB and MSB to 0 and PC to 1 on all non-midi patches and that will assure that you don't get synth sounds sounds when you don't want them.

Bd in tn

ddlooping

Thanks for your help, guys, but I think until I have time to get into the FC-300 Patch mode I'm going to manually turn the XV-5050 volume down and change the sounds (only used on 4 songs on Monday's gig). :)
I use the VG-99 "Guitar to MIDI" in Mono mode (so to have different sounds on different strings) and the XV-5050 in Performance mode (1 patch/sound per midi channel), so I think (still need to be confirmed) I need to send the latter a PC message on channel 16.
I can't see how I could do that with the FC-300 in SYSEX mode. :/
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

paults

I use an XV-5050 with a performance patch, too.  You can send the program changes for the muted synth patch (or for something you want to hear) on all six channels, just by sending the VG-99 a program change.


ddlooping

#14
Sorry Paul but I don't see how.  :-[

- It doesn't look like I can edit whatever MIDI message is being sent by the FC-300 in SYSEX mode, so the VG-99 has to be in charge of all the MIDI shenanigans
- The VG-99 "Guitar to MIDI" is set to Mono, so the "notes on/off" messages are being sent via 6 consecutive MIDI channels (in my case 2 to 7)

Where do I set-up the VG-99 so it sends a PC message of my choosing on channel 16, the one I believe enables the change from one performance to another?  ???

EDIT: unless you meant you're actually using only 1 performance, and changing the patches contained in that performance via the "String 1" to "String 6" settings in the "Guitar to MIDI" => "Patch" pages.
I guess that could work but would be limiting and a pain to set-up.  :-\
An example where this wouldn't work: two different patches on the same strings (hence midi channel).
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

musicman65

The Sysex mode is purely a native mode to the VG-99 only. The VG-99 then sends midi commands to your synth based on settings for each vg99 patch. Each VG-99 patch can be mono or poly depending on how you set it. If you use mono, each string gets a midi channel.This is preferable for best response In poly, all strings go out on the base channel. This ok for Keyboard sounds with no pitch bending. It is also handy for setting the synth to a patch with no sound without having to set all six strings.

Save a patch where Midi Ch 1 has no sound and use the poly mode so all strings send to Ch 1 and set the PC to your "No Sound" synth patch and you'll be able to mute your synth on none-midi vg patches. It's simple.once you get it working.

Bd in tn

paults

Yes, I have the VG in Mono, and I use one XV-5050 performance, and switch sounds within the performance.  That allows separate sounds per string, if you want, and would also allow (by programming the individual patches in the XV) more than one sound per string, layered sounds, or sounds split/layered by velocity, or at a specific fret.

You can set the "control channel" in the XV-5050 to something other than 16, if you end up needing more than one performance, but with so many voices of polyphony available in the XV, you can do very elaborate sounds by changing the six patches within one performance.   




Quote from: ddlooping on August 27, 2010, 10:22:15 PM
Sorry Paul but I don't see how.  :-[

- It doesn't look like I can edit whatever MIDI message is being sent by the FC-300 in SYSEX mode, so the VG-99 has to be in charge of all the MIDI shenanigans
- The VG-99 "Guitar to MIDI" is set to Mono, so the "notes on/off" messages are being sent via 6 consecutive MIDI channels (in my case 2 to 7)

Where do I set-up the VG-99 so it sends a PC message of my choosing on channel 16, the one I believe enables the change from one performance to another?  ???

EDIT: unless you meant you're actually using only 1 performance, and changing the patches contained in that performance via the "String 1" to "String 6" settings in the "Guitar to MIDI" => "Patch" pages.
I guess that could work but would be limiting and a pain to set-up.  :-\
An example where this wouldn't work: two different patches on the same strings (hence midi channel).


ddlooping

Thanks musicman65, but I still don't get it.  :-[
How do I send a program change on channel 16 to change to another Performance on the XV-5050?  ???

This is an example of the way I'm using my set-up at the moment
(using channel 1 as the "Basic CH" on the VG-99 to simplify the explanation)

Song
"A Design for Life - Manic Street Preachers"

VG-99 "Guitar to MIDI" Mono mode (no guitar sound used)
- string 1 => MIDI channel 1
- string 2 => MIDI channel 2
- string 3 => MIDI channel 3
- string 4 => MIDI channel 4
- string 5 => MIDI channel 5
- string 6 => MIDI channel 6
XV-5050 Performance mode
Performance "User: 001 Design Life" containing the following patches:
- Patch 1: MIDI channel 1 - Strings
- Patch 2: MIDI channel 2 - Strings
- Patch 3: MIDI channel 3 - Strings
- Patch 4: MIDI channel 4 - Strings (-1 octave)
- Patch 5: MIDI channel 5 - Strings (-1 octave)
- Patch 6: MIDI channel 6 - Strings (-1 octave)
- Patch 7: MIDI channel 5 - Timpani
- Patch 8: MIDI channel 6 - Timpani
- Patch 9 to 16: unused - MIDI channel 7

Solution No1
- On a VG-99 Patch where I don't want any synth sounds, I set the "Guitar to MIDI" to POLY mode.
The MIDI channel then used by the VG-99 is 1 ("Basic CH").
Problem No1
Using the above set-up as an example, only the XV-5050 "Performance 001 - Patch 1" would change to a different Patch.
All the other Patches within this Performance would stay unchanged.

Solution No2
- On a VG-99 Patch where I don't want any synth sounds, I set the "Guitar to MIDI" to Mono mode.
The MIDI channel then used by the VG-99 is 1 ("Basic CH").
Problem No2
On the XV-5050, I can change all the patches included in "Performance 001 - Patch 1" to a blank one.
The problem arises when I want to get back to the "A Design for Life" song where some MIDI channels/strings use 2 different XV-5050 Patches within the same "User: 001 Design Life" Performance.

The only solution I can think of but doesn't seem possible when using the FC-300 in SYSEX mode is to be able to send a Program Change message to the XV-5050, on MIDI channel 16 so it can change to another Performance.




Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

ddlooping

Quote from: paults on August 28, 2010, 05:46:41 AM
Yes, I have the VG in Mono, and I use one XV-5050 performance, and switch sounds within the performance.  That allows separate sounds per string, if you want, and would also allow (by programming the individual patches in the XV) more than one sound per string, layered sounds, or sounds split/layered by velocity, or at a specific fret.
Now I get it. :)
Something I wanted to avoid though.  :-\
Quote from: paults on August 28, 2010, 05:46:41 AMYou can set the "control channel" in the XV-5050 to something other than 16...
I couldn't find that option anywhere.  :-[
Edit: I've found it. :)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

ddlooping

Quote from: paults on August 28, 2010, 05:46:41 AMYou can set the "control channel" in the XV-5050 to something other than 16, if you end up needing more than one performance, but with so many voices of polyphony available in the XV, you can do very elaborate sounds by changing the six patches within one performance.
Not only have I found it but that's all I needed to do to achieve what I wanted.   ;D  :)
I'll be writing a "How-to" shortly. ;)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

ddlooping

The below settings will enable you to change from one of the XV-5050 Performances to another using either the VG-99 and/or FC-300 if one of the Patches contained in the XV-5050 Performances you wish to change to/from is set to the same MIDI channel as both the XV-5050 "Control Channel" and the VG-99 "BASIC CH".

Don't panic, all is explained below. ;)

The following instructions tell you how to achieve this and assume that you have already managed to get sounds out of the XV-5050 when playing your guitar via the VG-99. They also assume you have just switched the XV-5050 on.

Setting up the Roland XV-5050

1) Press the "SYSTEM" button on the right of the XV-5050
2) Use the "VALUE" knob to change "SYSTEM:GENERAL" to "SYSTEM:MIDI&USB"
3) Press the right "CURSOR" button twice, so as to underline the value of the "Control Channel" (ex: "Control Channel:   1")
4) Use the "VALUE" knob to change this value so it matches the "BASIC CH" value set on the VG-99* (explained in the next paragraph).
5) To save this modification, press the XV-5050 "UTILITY" button (on the right)
You should then see "WRITE PERFORM..." on the XV-5050 screen.
6) Press the XV-5050 "ENTER" button (just under the "UTILITY" one).
7a) If "WRITE PROTECT" appears on the screen change its value to "OFF" using the "VALUE" knob.
7b) Press "ENTER" twice.

You can now press the "EXIT" button, your setting has now been saved.

Checking/Setting the value of the VG-99 "BASIC CH"

1) Press the "GUITAR TO MIDI" button
2) Press the F5 button, "SYSTEM"
The value of the VG-99 "Basic Midi Channel" can be seen above the F3 knob and can be changed with the latter.
3) Make sure the value of "PC MASK" (F4) is set to "OFF".
4) If necessary, press "WRITE"... to save the changes you may have made.

That should be it. :)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

Brent Flash

Quote from: ddlooping on August 28, 2010, 05:56:26 AM
Solution No1
- On a VG-99 Patch where I don't want any synth sounds, I set the "Guitar to MIDI" to POLY mode.
The MIDI channel then used by the VG-99 is 1 ("Basic CH").
Problem No1
Using the above set-up as an example, only the XV-5050 "Performance 001 - Patch 1" would change to a different Patch.
All the other Patches within this Performance would stay unchanged.
Just wanted to point out that in POLY MODE, GUITAR TO MIDI only transmits on the BASE CHANNEL, so you have essentially muted all the other channels. Getting back to having this PERFORMANCE preset to sound all channels would be done by setting the VG GUITAR TO MIDI back to MONO MODE and send only a PC on MIDI Channel/String 1 and have PC OFF on all the other string PC settings in the TRANSMIT PROGRAM CHANGE section in the GUITAR TO MIDI section.

ddlooping

Quote from: Brent Flash on August 28, 2010, 07:05:38 AM
Just wanted to point out that in POLY MODE, GUITAR TO MIDI only transmits on the BASE CHANNEL, so you have essentially muted all the other channels.
It doesn't mute all the other channels, it just changes to another Performance on the XV-5050.  :)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

ddlooping

P.S:
Quote from: Brent Flash on August 28, 2010, 07:05:38 AMGetting back to having this PERFORMANCE preset to sound all channels would be done by setting the VG GUITAR TO MIDI back to MONO MODE and send only a PC on MIDI Channel/String 1 and have PC OFF on all the other string PC settings in the TRANSMIT PROGRAM CHANGE section in the GUITAR TO MIDI section.
I think that would achieve pretty much the same thing, changing Performance on the XV-5050. ;)
I choose POLY mode because I thought it'd be "neater" (one channel, one program change to deal with on both units). :)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

Brent Flash

Quote from: ddlooping on August 28, 2010, 07:32:15 AM
It doesn't mute all the other channels, it just changes to another Performance on the XV-5050.  :)
What I am meaning is that it does not play, if you have a no sound patch on MIDI Channel 1. There may be more to it, like I have said before I don't trigger external synths so I have not actually tried this other than trouble shooting the CC#7=100 bug, but I know that others have found a work around for these problems.

You may need to use PROGRAM CHANGE MASK for the BASIC CHANNEL to stop changing the Performance preset, and just use the PC change in the MONO section. We have run into all these problems and were hoping a OS update would come along and fix them. Still hoping!  ::)