FTP - Looking to purchase FTP - Need Advice

[Tim Z]

I had a really hard time determining which forum here I should post this in, but I am posting it here as a start. If it belongs somewhere else please advise

I have been a long-time Roland Synth user (since the early 90's) and currently have the GK2A pickup and GR-33 and GR-09 synths. The GK2A works fairly well with Roland's synth modules, but sucks with VST synths. So I am going to purchase a Fishman Triple Play FTP, and wanted to ask some questions about it and other stuff.

I have tried dozens of VST synths with my GK2A and GR-33 midi output to my host DAW. While they work okay for pads, they are sucking really bad for synth leads. Will the FTP work better than my GK2A for playing synth guitar style leads (i.e. like Pat Metheny, Chick Corea, Snarky Puppy, etc.) I know it will track better, but with the GK2A the bends are all out of whack (yes I have the bend ranges set correctly), vibrato is out of whack, fast runs are simply impossible, tons of ghost notes and general bad notes that would not be there if I was just playing guitar. With the GR-33, these things still happen, but it is MUCH MORE playable and usable, than with VST synths. I ended up purchasing u-he Zebra, but I am not finding it to be of any use for synth leads with the GK-2A. I admit that I am not very good with the science of these VST synths and how to tweak them to make my own sounds, but the leads they offer are mostly unusable as they are. and they provide almost no presets for the style of leads I would want. Questions:

1) Will the FTP work better with u-he Zebra?
2) Does the FTP software include synth sounds, and are there any really good synth lead sounds?
3) What are some VST synths I can look at and demo that would work great with the FTP and offer LOTS of synth leads? I have tried all the u-he synths, and while they sound great, they have very little to offer for my style of music.
4) What VST synths are all you guys using with the FTP?

Lastly, I have tried the Jam Origin software and it was worse then using my GK-2A. Did not have much luck with that software.

[admin]

Lastly, I have tried the Jam Origin software and it was worse then using my GK-2A. Did not have much luck with that software.

Try latest version on a Mac

[Tim Z]

Already tried the latest version.  My systems are all Windows based DAWs. Don't have a Mac and never will.

[Vade]

Your own ears will probably serve you best as to the usability of FTP tones. I'm using the vst's that come with Sonar but tend to use them for background ambience so I can't really advise you as to leads. I keep hoping Santa will drop off Omnisphere and we'll see if this is the year;)

Some FTP demos for you...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fishman+triple+play+demo

[plethoraguy]

Check out the all the demos on youtube.  You will find that the tracking is fast and pitch bends are pretty damn good (as long as the synth is set up properly).
I can not compare to Roland's systems because I have no personal experience with them.

I WILL say it helps  A LOT to try to play cleaner than you would with just guitar alone, for leads especially, but it's doable.   

[germanicus]

I had a really hard time determining which forum here I should post this in, but I am posting it here as a start. If it belongs somewhere else please advise

I have been a long-time Roland Synth user (since the early 90's) and currently have the GK2A pickup and GR-33 and GR-09 synths. The GK2A works fairly well with Roland's synth modules, but sucks with VST synths. So I am going to purchase a Fishman Triple Play FTP, and wanted to ask some questions about it and other stuff.

I have tried dozens of VST synths with my GK2A and GR-33 midi output to my host DAW. While they work okay for pads, they are sucking really bad for synth leads. Will the FTP work better than my GK2A for playing synth guitar style leads (i.e. like Pat Metheny, Chick Corea, Snarky Puppy, etc.) I know it will track better, but with the GK2A the bends are all out of whack (yes I have the bend ranges set correctly), vibrato is out of whack, fast runs are simply impossible, tons of ghost notes and general bad notes that would not be there if I was just playing guitar. With the GR-33, these things still happen, but it is MUCH MORE playable and usable, than with VST synths. I ended up purchasing u-he Zebra, but I am not finding it to be of any use for synth leads with the GK-2A. I admit that I am not very good with the science of these VST synths and how to tweak them to make my own sounds, but the leads they offer are mostly unusable as they are. and they provide almost no presets for the style of leads I would want. Questions:

1) Will the FTP work better with u-he Zebra?
2) Does the FTP software include synth sounds, and are there any really good synth lead sounds?
3) What are some VST synths I can look at and demo that would work great with the FTP and offer LOTS of synth leads? I have tried all the u-he synths, and while they sound great, they have very little to offer for my style of music.
4) What VST synths are all you guys using with the FTP?

Lastly, I have tried the Jam Origin software and it was worse then using my GK-2A. Did not have much luck with that software.

Roland is decent when triggering their own internal sounds, but pretty awful triggering external units. The best I experienced from Roland in that regard is their GP-10, but it doesnt hold a candle to FTP.

FTP will work much better with soft synths.
The FTP comes with some sounds, a few that are decent, but I use other soft synths.

For synth leads I recommend Arturia's Analog Lab 2. You get thousands of sounds cherry picked from multiple classic synths across their synthesizer products.
Its not expensive either.

For mellotron I use M-Tron Pro.
For Organs, ive used NI's B4 II, but its only 32 bit (need to use Jbridge) and its so-so in my opinion. I think I may get GSi's VB3 tonewheel modeller:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XweG5evtp2Q


Pianos/Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Pipe Organ I use Toontrack EZkeys.

If you want Dance/Electronic/EDM type sounds (pads, leads) check out Nexus 2.
Omnisphere 2 is pretty nice.

[Tim Z]

Thank you germanicus for answering my specific questions. I will check those synths out. The problem with FTP is that you cannot demo it before purchasing. I had already viewed many demos on it, but demos can be misleading and do not tell you how well it will work in your own hands. I record guitar pickup demos for a couple of pickup builders, and I know how fickle pickup demos can be.

On another note, after saying I already tried the latest Jam Origin version, I went and checked it out again today. It turns out I had played the previous version of version II. No idea what they did with this latest version, but demoing it with u-he Zebra it was way better than using it with my GK2A. So much better, that I am going to purchase Jam Origin today. So I will eat my words on that one It is about 1/5th the cost of FTP here in Canada, and it allows me to use any or all of my guitars with VST synths.

No Dance/Electronic/EDM sounds at all for my needs. I record mostly Jazz/Rock/Fusion instrumental music. So pads, strings, brass, and mostly synth leads.

[germanicus]

Thank you germanicus for answering my specific questions. I will check those synths out. The problem with FTP is that you cannot demo it before purchasing. I had already viewed many demos on it, but demos can be misleading and do not tell you how well it will work in your own hands. I record guitar pickup demos for a couple of pickup builders, and I know how fickle pickup demos can be.

On another note, after saying I already tried the latest Jam Origin version, I went and checked it out again today. It turns out I had played the previous version of version II. No idea what they did with this latest version, but demoing it with u-he Zebra it was way better than using it with my GK2A. So much better, that I am going to purchase Jam Origin today. So I will eat my words on that one It is about 1/5th the cost of FTP here in Canada, and it allows me to use any or all of my guitars with VST synths.

No Dance/Electronic/EDM sounds at all for my needs. I record mostly Jazz/Rock/Fusion instrumental music. So pads, strings, brass, and mostly synth leads.

Great! good luck with Jam Origin. I tried it when it was in beta many years ago and it was impressive at the time, i'm sure its gotten better since. At the time it tracked monophonic lines very well, but chords not so much.

I also do fusion/prog stuff, but have found that some of the pads used in electronic music softsynths harken back to those used by 70's fusion bands (think Dave Stewart in Bill Brufords band). Of course, you are probably just better off getting CS-80/modular/mini softsynths.

[Tim Z]

Took me awhile and bit of frustration to get Midi Guitar installed and working with my DAW (Samplitude Pro X) but it is now working and is pretty cool. Still not perfect, and perhaps FTP would have been better, but I think it is going to work much better for me with the VST synths and it is much less expensive.

So I downloaded and installed the demo for Analog Lab 2 that you recommended. it is pretty good, but I am still not finding very many synth lead patches that do it for me. Plus, this synth seems to have very limited tweaking abilities? For example, I can not find anywhere to set the pitch bend range in it. Is that not possible? It is extremely important to be able to set that when using it with a Midi Guitar. Many of the patches are unusable without being able to adjust the pitch bend.

So my search is still on for a really good synth lead VST. Any other suggestions?

On another note, I had a listen to some of the tracks on your albums . . . . . GREAT STUFF MAN!!  Very creative and original!

[Vaultnaemsae]

Everybody has different tastes but I really like Sunrizer (BeepStreet) for all kinds of sounds. There's a few demos of people playing through patches on YouTube. They have iPhone and iPad versions too which are great.

The absence of pitchbend range in some (all?) Arturia synths is a known issue but I recall seeing some workarounds on the Arturia forum. Good luck.

[Tim Z]

Thanks Man . . . . . . I checked out Sunrizer on YouTube, and while it sounds pretty good, I don't hear anything that leads me to think it is going to have the kind of lead sounds I am after. I'll try the demo later. I suppose all of these synths can be tweaked to achieve my own sounds, so I guess I am going to have to take a crash course and learn to build my own lead patches. It's too bad that we can't access the leads in the Roland GR synth modules with the FTP or Midi Guitar. Roland should make a VST GR-55 soft synth. One of my faves on my GR-33 is the old faithful GR-300 patch, used by Pat Metheny and many others. So far I haven't found anything like this in any of the VST synths I have tried. I currently have u-he Zebra2, Zebralette2 and Magix Independence & Revolta2. I got more than enough pads, strings and effects right now, but really lacking in lots of good and variable synth leads.

[Smash]

Is there not a sound canvas on iPad? They used to have some classic gr300 leads - certainly my hardware SC88 did. Definitely GR lead and feline GR

Did this year's ago using purely SC88 GR tones:

https://youtu.be/EXKVqsBdu50

[chrish]

Quote "On another note, I had a listen to some of the tracks on your albums . . . . . GREAT STUFF MAN!!  Very creative and original!"

I listened to some of those tracks as well. I got to say it's some of the best Fusion that I've listened to in awhile.

[Tim Z]

Tried U-He Hive tonight and it has a better selection on vintage lead presets than Zebra2. I know Zebra is considered one of the best, but it may have been better if I had got Hive instead. I have been trying all night to understand how these synths work and how to tweak them, but it is not an easy task. I have been in contact with Analog Lab 2 support, and they don't seem to understand my question about being able to set the bend range for use with midi guitar. It appears they didn't include that feature with that synth?

[germanicus]

Tried U-He Hive tonight and it has a better selection on vintage lead presets than Zebra2. I know Zebra is considered one of the best, but it may have been better if I had got Hive instead. I have been trying all night to understand how these synths work and how to tweak them, but it is not an easy task. I have been in contact with Analog Lab 2 support, and they don't seem to understand my question about being able to set the bend range for use with midi guitar. It appears they didn't include that feature with that synth?

Thanks for the comment!

Analog Lab 2 is basically a greatest hits of their other synth products. It has limited tweakability with each synth provided unless you own the full version of said synth. I looked, and have not found where you can tweak pitch bend range, however someone above mentioned a workaround.