The speaker....this is the key for me at least

Started by dazco, July 08, 2022, 10:50:52 AM

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dazco

Not the stock one. I have a celestion G12T100 i used when i had a mustang GT and when i got the GTX with v3 i preferred the GTX speaker. But i kept the celestion because being hard to find 4 ohms i figured i might need it in the future. The future is now ! So when i got the catalyst it sounded strange to me and some others including one of the admins here, Steve, partially due to the lack of speaker break in. So i tried the G12T100 but i didn't find it to be a big difference IMO because i was not used to the amp yet and some of what i was hearing was a lack of understanding in how to adjust this amp.

In any case, while i've been generally happy with the amp as far as tone quality, the EQ curve wasn't quite right to my ear and i didn't know why and wasn't real concerned because it just sounded so much bigger and fuller then my GTX. But a week ago i tried the G12T100 again and this time i swapped the 2 speakers back and fourth several times finally deciding the G12T100 was better. But after leaving it and playing a lot the last 4 or 5 days i found myself wanting to play much more and finding one of my teles i wasn't liking with this amp i was now really loving. So after 4 or 5 days of playing a lot with the G12T100 in it i was very used to the sound and decided now i would be able to hear the difference much more clearly. (typically i find that happens when using a new part long enough) So i put the stock speaker back in and the difference was very very obvious. The first thing that made me try the G12T100 a week ago was a nagging issue with the lows that i realized i didn't like about the stock speaker. They seemed a bit loose and fuzzy. And that was what i immediately noticed when i but the G12T100 in. What i only realized after leaving it in for a time then trying the stock speaker one last time is a HUGE improvement in the mids. It then hit me i had been fighting that with the stock speaker. It was what i'd been tweaking to improve but didn't realize it. The mids are sorta fizzy with the stock speaker and it kept me from copping true classic rock tone. The G12T100 has bigger rounder and dead solid mids. I could not dial in a lot of classic rock tones with the stock speaker like with the G12T100. I have zero doubt the tone will not cut much better in a band mix, not that it was bad before but there were moments where it coulda been better. Funny thing is, till i used it a while i didn't notice that. It took time but now it's very obvious and putting the stock back had me tweaking endlessly trying to recreate that with no success at all. A very good example of a classic sound that i could not get well at all till i put the G12T100 in is that edge of breakup fender neck tone ala SRV and the like. Wind cries mary etc etc. Amp set to classic rock gain, guitar volume on 4-5 with a treble bleed Need i say more? Its way better. I'm sure YMMV but i also thing most classic rock players would wholeheartedly agree given time with that speaker in the cat. I remember saying at that swamp called TGP  ;D  in a discussion about replacement speakers for the cat and before i owned the catalyst myself, that i believe it's likely the stock speaker was well chosen. I couldn't have been more wrong. It was the key to really making this amp do traditional tones. I still swear by the dynamic model, but now i am using the crunch a lot to because it sounds so much better with the G12T100.

dazco

Well, hell, i dunno if there's anyone here listening but more observations.  ;D I've swapped the stock speaker and t100 back and fourth a few more times. It's become quite obvious what the difference is but can i describe tone accurately in words? I'll try. Probably the best simple way to describe it in EQ terms is the T100 has high mids and makes it very apparent the stock doesn't have much in that area. I would describe it as amp in the room vs a blanket over the speaker. The stock is a bit brighter in the treble ranges but as i said lacking in high mids. The T100 is much tighter and the stock is for lack of a better word sounds sorta mushy all around by comparison.

Putting the stock back in after days with the T100 made me feel the stock sounded great. But i quickly began to hear that blanketed effect and that kind of mushiness in the tone that is the kind of thing that can get lost in a mix easier. Haven't had that issue yet aside from a song or 2 when a friend sat in for the night and got pretty loud. You need to crank the treble and presence a lot with the stock speaker because if you don't the amp will sound like mud. So it's a bit of a battle to try and find that sweet spot between too dark and too thin. An age old battle i've had with lots of amps. The T100 alleviates that quite a bit. It's always clear sounding and getting the right amount and type of treble in the balance is less of a battle and more about taste. Lastly, with the clarity and presence it punches hard. Note come out with power and sound like the old amp in the room vs what steve (admin,elantric) often says about modelers sounding like "a recorded track". Haven't used it in a band context yet but i think it will be a big improvement. However, i know the reality about things like this and i will bring the stock speaker with my in case it ain't happening loud and in a band mix.

I think the stock speaker sounds really good in it's way and the same goes for the T100 when you are just playing solo at home. They are very different. It's not a matter of better and worse and i'd love to have a switch i could flip and have either one tho if i had to choose the T100 is the definite winner. BUT, in a band mix it may well be a matter of one being better so i'll report back when that happens, tho it may not be for weeks or even a couple months. I have little doubt the T100 will beat the pants off the stock speaker but in the home vs live test i have been dead wrong many times, so....

eUphonic

Thx for sharing!

My ol' crappy Carlsbro Sherwood has an unbranded 4 Ohm 12' driver that I think to be a T100.

It has been used a couple of times to amplify modelers and did a good job.

Below is its response through a Shure SM57. I add the related impulse response, if ever it has any interest... :-)

dazco

Hey, there IS someone listening ! LOL Could well be a G12T100. (or as celestion renamed them a few years back, the "HOT 100") It's a very commonly used speaker by manufacturers for combos because 1-it s available in 4 and 8 ohms and 2-it's 100 watts. Same speaker as in the original mustang, tho if i recall that was 8 ohms. Funny tho....that amp (MIII) was my least fav of the 5 modelers I've had. But i used G12T100s in a lot of tube amps. Good all around speaker.

dazco

This may sound wacky, but it just struck me that the difference between the 2 speakers is almost exactly like the difference between 6550 output tubes and EL34s. I had one of the first year JCM 800 combos years ago and i modded to to accept either at the flip of a switch. (stock it came with 6550 as the earliest 800s did) I recall the difference to this day quite clearly and it occurred to me today that it's pretty much the same difference i heard between those tubes. The stock speaker sounds like EL34 and the G12T100 like 6550s.

frankencat

Are you still liking the T100 in the Catalyst?