GK 13 Interface - replace fragile DIN plugs with HD15 "VGA" style connectors?

Started by dedjazzgadgetz, April 10, 2012, 11:46:31 AM

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dedjazzgadgetz

Adrian Belew's 90s-era Strats' 13-pin outputs were in fact replaced by "computer-type" DB-15 connectors, as you can make-out from this (most obvious at 1:35): 



But his current Parker Fly set-up is "good'ol crappy" DIN 13 pin:



Nowadays, AB's got rid of the Multi-Wave distortion...
No excuses, no limits

Moja

Well I tried the 13-pin in original Strat standard jack, but still, the 13-pin Roland Cable thing is Flimsy.

So I converted my MIA RR Strat and the GR-55 to a HD-15 , S-VGA System.

Works awesome & extremely Sturdy.


Elantric

Cool

A few other folks have swapped out the 13 pin connections  for the more robust HD15 VGA style connector too
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8313.msg59305#msg59305

When running multiple GK Guitars,  this  allows the use of cheap VGA Switch boxes too - since these already contain a multi-contact rotary switch and a box.


http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817196027&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleBiz&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleBiz-_-pla-_-KVM+Switches-_-N82E16817196027&gclid=CLb9_-LmvbYCFaF7QgodGmIAhg




merman93

Quote from:  Moja on June 10, 2014, 11:26:05 AM
Well I tried the 13-pin in original Strat standard jack, but still, the 13-pin Roland Cable thing is Flimsy.

So I converted my MIA RR Strat and the GR-55 to a HD-15 , S-VGA System.

Works awesome & extremely Sturdy.



Before his switch to Parker Guitars, Adrian Belew had his Fender Guitars modified to use the Same type of system. I don't know why he went back to standard 13 pin on the Parker's.
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

Moja

My Right-Angle VGA cable just arrived finally. This works perfect !  Very easy to restrain the cable with the guitar strap.  I was worried this type of cable would be too stiff, but it looks and feels real solid, professional.   I love it :)

Thanks everyone for your comments & suggestions. I see some very interesting modifications. It is amazing the Evolution that occurred. I originally wanted to recess the connector at the guitar side. I did not like the protrusion as it is very easy to hit it and break it.
    Now I think I solved my concerns. Thank u for listening.

Moja

Quote from:  Elantric on June 10, 2014, 11:33:27 AM
Cool

A few other folks have swapped out the 13 pin connections  for the more robust HD15 VGA style connector too
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8313.msg59305#msg59305

When running multiple GK Guitars,  this  allows the use of cheap VGA Switch boxes too - since these already contain a multi-contact rotary switch and a box.


http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817196027&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleBiz&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleBiz-_-pla-_-KVM+Switches-_-N82E16817196027&gclid=CLb9_-LmvbYCFaF7QgodGmIAhg







Thank u for the info.  This website is a Goldmine !

intergalatico

Hello Guys,

I hope some one can help me.

I want to make a GK cable. The DIN 13 pins jacks are not difficult to find but I have difficulty to find the wire.
1. Which dimensions should the individuals wire have? And the whole cable?
2. Which material?
3. Can I use some VGA Monitor cable? They have enough wire connections and I have some here.

Did this one would do the job?
http://www.reichelt.de/Steuerleitung/LIYCY-14-5/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=2&ARTICLE=10323&GROUPID=3326&artnr=LIYCY+14-5

Someone knows where in Germany I would be able to find it?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

batman

It appears that the problem may be the jack or jack/cable interface after all.
I pulled the end off one of my Roland cables (I think it came with my VG-99 ~7 years ago) and the ground was soldered to the plug.  That cable makes noise when I move it around in the jack but doesn't make noise when I hold the plug in the jack and wiggle the end of the cable around.  I also pulled the plug off my Gittler cable and it appeared to be soldered but it was difficult to see as there was tape around the end of it.  It was a little difficult to get in around the plug and I didn't want to mess with it too much at this stage.
Both cables can be pulled out of the plug in my guitar without having to depress the locking pin (with a bit of wiggling, but I move around a lot on stage so this is an issue; it's already fallen out once by itself during a rehearsal, even though I always feed it through my strap!).  The Gittler was actually by far the worst offender here; it came out really easily but when I pulled the cover off the jack I bent the locking pin out a bit more.  This helped a little but not much.  Interestingly this has also helped the ground connection, although it is far from perfect.

The plug also comes out of the socket before it 'locks'.  This can't help the ground issue either as it reduces the potential area of the connection.  See photos at end of post.

Has anyone on here had any experience with using VGA or other cables?  I want to continue using Roland gear live but simply cannot continue with this poorly designed interface.





Elantric

QuoteHas anyone on here had any experience with using VGA or other cables?  I want to continue using Roland gear live but simply cannot continue with this poorly designed interface.


See above!




A few other folks have swapped out the 13 pin connections  for the more robust HD15 VGA style connector too
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8313.msg59305#msg59305

When running multiple GK Guitars,  this  allows the use of cheap VGA Switch boxes too - since these already contain a multi-contact rotary switch and a box.


http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817196027&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleBiz&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleBiz-_-pla-_-KVM+Switches-_-N82E16817196027&gclid=CLb9_-LmvbYCFaF7QgodGmIAhg



batman

Thanks Elantric.  I thought I had seen this thread somewhere before but for some reason couldn't find it.  Facepalm for me :)

Quote from: Moja on June 11, 2014, 09:19:13 AM
My Right-Angle VGA cable just arrived finally. This works perfect !  Very easy to restrain the cable with the guitar strap.  I was worried this type of cable would be too stiff, but it looks and feels real solid, professional.   I love it :)

Thanks everyone for your comments & suggestions. I see some very interesting modifications. It is amazing the Evolution that occurred. I originally wanted to recess the connector at the guitar side. I did not like the protrusion as it is very easy to hit it and break it.
    Now I think I solved my concerns. Thank u for listening.

Could you elaborate a little more on your concerns and how you solved them (from your message I think regarding the protruding jack)?
Does anyone have any advice on using a VGA cable and connectors?  I assume I can just purchase something like this for the guitar and GP-10 (although with screws)?


Majiken

Quote from: Moja on June 11, 2014, 09:19:13 AM
My Right-Angle VGA cable just arrived finally. This works perfect !  Very easy to restrain the cable with the guitar strap.  I was worried this type of cable would be too stiff, but it looks and feels real solid, professional.   I love it :)

Thanks everyone for your comments & suggestions. I see some very interesting modifications. It is amazing the Evolution that occurred. I originally wanted to recess the connector at the guitar side. I did not like the protrusion as it is very easy to hit it and break it.
    Now I think I solved my concerns. Thank u for listening.

Hi Moja, please excuse that I am a total electronic novice- where did you get your components, are they all standard products? I like the look of that right-angle cable and it seems really robust! I hate the 13-pin setup; this could motivate me considerably :-)
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

I suggest if you are a novice, to defer the work to a local  electronics tech.

Here  is a supplier in Germany
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/category/SHOP_AREA_14739/Connectors


USA  / Global here:
www.jameco.com

www.mouser.com

www.digikey.com



this is my 1st choice for a HD15 for Guitar Mount

Neutrik P/N NADB15MF-B D-SUB adapter D-SUB plug 15-pin - D-SUB socket 15-pin
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/1316984/D-SUB-adapter-D-SUB-plug-15-pin-D-SUB-socket-15-pin-Neutrik-1-pcs?ref=list


http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/1316985/D-SUB-adapter-D-SUB-plug-15-pin-D-SUB-socket-15-pin-Neutrik-1-pcs?ref=list
In Black too

mrmobus2014

I modded a Shadow external guitar pickup with locking connectors many (25????!!!!) years ago because it had a DIN plug on both ends.  They worked very well.  VGA ones seem a good way to go for more pins.  As it's proprietry I'd have hoped Roland would have gone for something better than a DIN plug.  Seems like a backward step from their earlier controller cables although I've no doubt there's a significant price difference to manufacture.

These are what I used on the Shadow

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-6-way-audio-locking-connector-line-socket-fk26d

maan108

Quote from: Moja on June 10, 2014, 11:26:05 AM
Well I tried the 13-pin in original Strat standard jack, but still, the 13-pin Roland Cable thing is Flimsy.

So I converted my MIA RR Strat and the GR-55 to a HD-15 , S-VGA System.

Works awesome & extremely Sturdy.

Hallo ! Sorry for my mistake in previuos Quote!

Thanks for your good idea and example !!!

Sometime ago I had look to VGA alternative before to try to build by myself a 13 pin cable but  I had some dubt :

VGA cable is made by 3 coaxial cable for RGB signals plus other (7 or 8 ?) single wire.
- So some GK signals will use the ground of RGB coaxial cables : we have to take care of this and link to such RGB ground wire some specific GK signal or it is not important which GK signal its assigned to which HD15 pin ?

- We have to be careful to unused  pin (9 ? and 4?) in VGA HD15 cables ?

- Installing a VGA socket in GR55 it is set in simple parallel with 13 pin socket ?[/pre][/pre]

Pin Name Dir Description
1 RED Red Video (75 ohm, 0.7 V p-p)
2 GREEN Green Video (75 ohm, 0.7 V p-p)
3 BLUE Blue Video (75 ohm, 0.7 V p-p)
4 RES RESERVED
5 GND Ground
6 RGND Red Ground
7 GGND Green Ground
8 BGND Blue Ground
9 KEY - Key (No pin) / Optional +5V output from graphics card
10 SGND Sync Ground
11 ID0 Monitor ID Bit 0 (optional)
12 SDA I2C bidirectional data line
13 HSYNC or CSYNC Horizontal Sync (or Composite Sync)
14 VSYNC Vertical Sync which works also as data clock
15 SCL I2C data clock in DDC2, Monitor ID3 in DDC1

Elantric


RogerVG8EX

I'm going to try to make a breakout box that will enable me to use a guitar equipped with a Roland GK-KIT-GT3 and a VGA 15 pin output without having to replace the GR/GI/VG 13 pin DIN input.

whippinpost91850


batman

I'm interested in this too.  I've been looking into replacing my shitty Roland jack with a VGA-style connector but haven't got around to it yet.  Please keep us updated :)

6dB

Quote from: Elantric on June 10, 2014, 11:33:27 AM
Cool

A few other folks have swapped out the 13 pin connections  for the more robust HD15 VGA style connector too
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8313.msg59305#msg59305

When running multiple GK Guitars,  this  allows the use of cheap VGA Switch boxes too - since these already contain a multi-contact rotary switch and a box.


http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817196027&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleBiz&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleBiz-_-pla-_-KVM+Switches-_-N82E16817196027&gclid=CLb9_-LmvbYCFaF7QgodGmIAhg





How many connections are being actually switched in that VGA box?

admin

QuoteHow many connections are being actually switched in that VGA box?



Inside VGA passive A/B Switch box, there are 15 circuits switched

Inside looks similar to this DB25 A/B Switch box where 25 circuits are switched






GuitarBuilder

I highly recommend you go for the Lemo-compatible 19-pin connector instead:



The plug diameter is about the same as a GK plug and is of far better quality than the Roland parts.  Cycfi Research makes an excellent cable with this connector:

"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

6dB

Quote from: admsustainiac on December 12, 2017, 12:11:59 PM


Inside VGA passive A/B Switch box, there are 15 circuits switched

Inside looks similar to this DB25 A/B Switch box where 25 circuits are switched



wow that is some serious switching!!!
I´ve seen some new 1 to 4/4 to 1 vga switchers with 4 pushbuttons already.

I don´t think they use the same kind of switching but rather an electronic one. Does anyone has opened/ has info on these switchers? If they work right off the bat (or with some minor mods) these are the cheapest GKP4 with individual switches you can get!!!

admin



Actually I would avoid that model  - the rotary switch versions do switch all 15 lines

but the push button VGA Switch box version may not 


For use with GK 13 pin guitars, avoid the "Active" VGA switch boxes ( that require a power supply)  - those will NOT work


6dB

Quote from: admsustainiac on December 13, 2017, 06:52:03 AM



Actually I would avoid that model  - the rotary switch versions do switch all 15 lines

but the push button VGA Switch box version may not 
For use with GK 13 pin guitars, avoid the "Active" VGA switch boxes ( that require a power supply)  - those will NOT work



yes I know it should be passive, the nisuta switcher I showed has no power connection.
I´ve also found this video for the 2 out splitter version and it appears to be all mechanical



admin


The push button VGA Switch box version appears different - not able to switch all 15 lines on the VGA Connector (as seen in video above), and will NOT work as a  GK 13 pin guitar switch box 
Actually I would avoid that model  - the rotary switch versions do switch all 15 lines