RC-50 Stuff

Started by Elantric, January 23, 2008, 09:49:17 PM

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Elantric

http://media.bossus.com/bugonline/how_to.asp?art=rc-50
Art of Guitar Looping
by Jim Bybee

With the explosion of digital technology, loop-based music making has come to the forefront of modern music production. Using computers or dedicated sampler/workstations such as Roland's MV-8000, MC-808, and Fantom-X, it's easy to put together song arrangements using nothing but music loops. While great for keyboardists and DJs, this can leave guitar players feeling a little "out of the loop." If you're a guitarist and want to join the looping party, let's check out what a BOSS Loop Station can do for you.

A LITTLE BACKGROUND

For the uninitiated, a "loop" is simply a section of audio that plays repeatedly. Innovative guitarists have been making music with loops for years, primarily with delay or "echo" devices (first tape-based and later digital). Using a simple delay, a guitarist can record a short, repeating loop that's a few seconds in length, and use it as an accompaniment for live playing. Some devices even allow you to overdub new performances while the loop plays, a feature called "sound-on-sound" recording. (By the way, this functionality is available in the BOSS DD-20 Giga Delay as well as BOSS Loop Stations.)



For all its coolness, creating guitar loops with a delay unit has its disadvantages. First, the available recording time is measured in seconds, limiting your loop creations to a few bars. Second, unless you have an external recorder handy, there's no way to save your masterful loop creation once it's complete—if you turn off the power or record a new loop, your inspired performance is erased!

THE LOOP STATION ADVANTAGE

To provide performing musicians with better live looping tools, BOSS has created the RC-20XL, RC-50, and RC-2 Loop Stations. They're made from the ground up with realtime, live performance looping in mind, and have tons of features that make them perfect for guitarists.

Perhaps the most important thing a Loop Station provides the guitarist is time—recording time, that is. The RC-20XL and RC-2 feature 16 minutes of mono recording, while the RC-50 offers an amazing 49 minutes (24 minutes in stereo). This means you're no longer relegated to creating short, repetitive phrases—you can capture complete song sections, or even record an entire song in a single pass.

Obviously, a necessity in a performance looper is hands-free realtime control—the last time I checked, it takes two hands to play the guitar! The Loop Stations are designed for complete foot-controlled operation, with both built-in pedals and connectors for adding optional footswitches.

UNDER THE HOOD

In Loop Station lingo, a recorded loop is called a "phrase." Once recorded, a phrase can play repeatedly, creating a continuous musical backing. Alternately, a phrase can be set to play only once when triggered (this is called "one-shot" playback). If desired, a phrase can play in reverse for wild backwards guitar effects, or be set to fade-in and/or out automatically.

While a phrase is playing, new recordings can be overdubbed sound-on-sound style. Here, the Loop Stations' undo function is super-handy—if don't like your overdub, simply press a footswitch and undo it, returning the phrase to its pre-overdub state. If you change your mind, press the footswitch again to redo the undo. Of course, all this can be done during a performance, without ever stopping playback!

When creating rhythmic phrases, it can sometimes be a little tricky to stop recording at just the right time to create a perfect loop. To keep your loops glitch-free, there's a built-in rhythm guide and a Loop Quantize function. Loop Quantize is great because it automatically sets the loop length based on the current tempo setting, even if you don't stop recording at exactly the right moment.

Finally, when your loop masterpiece is complete, you can store it in one of multiple onboard phrase memory locations for later use.

CHOICES, CHOICES...

Whether your looping needs are great or small, BOSS has a Loop Station for you.

   RC-50: Loop Station (Photo)
RC-20XL

The RC-20XL comes in the popular BOSS Twin Pedal format, making it a great choice when you need a small and compact looper. It features 16 minutes of mono recording time, and can store 11 phrases onboard. It runs on batteries or AC power, and is right at home next to your BOSS pedals.

RC-2

The RC-2—the new kid on the Loop Station block—packs most of the RC-20XL's features into a standard BOSS Compact Pedal. Its stompbox size makes it an easy fit in any guitar case, gig bag, or pedal board, while its single multi-function footswitch handles all looping operations with ease. (If you crave more foot control, an optional BOSS FS-5U or FS-6 footswitch can be connected to the RC-2's external pedal jack to duplicate the multi-pedal control available in its Twin Pedal cousin.)

RC-50

If you're looking for the ultimate guitar looper, then look no further than the RC-50. It features seven built-in pedals for massive foot control, and can record phrases in mono (up to 49 minutes) or stereo (up to 24 minutes). The RC-50 has 99 patches, and each patch contains three phrases—that adds up to onboard storage of nearly 300 phrases! With so much recording time available, there's ample room to store multiple complete songs onboard, let alone simple loops.

The three phrases within an RC-50 patch can be played separately (in Single mode) or simultaneously (in Multi mode). Single mode is great for recording and playing different song sections as separate phrases (verse, chorus, etc.), while Multi mode allows you to combine phrases together to create complex sounds. When in Multi mode, you can use the Loop Sync function to perfectly lock the recording and playback tempo of all three phrases.

The RC-50 also plays nice with the outside world. By connecting the built-in USB connector to a computer, you can back up and restore RC-50 patches, and swap WAV audio loops. For synchronization and MIDI control, use the MIDI IN and OUT connectors to communicate with other MIDI devices such as sequencers and multitrack recorders.

THE SKY'S THE LIMIT

When you put on your thinking cap, you can come up with lots of creative uses for a Loop Station. You can take solo or small group performances to a new level, creating on-the-fly backing tracks for soloing or vocal accompaniment. Imagine using a single guitar to build an entire multi-layered musical arrangement—with complex chord changes—right in front of your audience. That'll blow some minds! Perhaps you like to work with pre-recorded backing tracks—simply store them as phrases in the Loop Station's onboard memory locations and head to the gig. On the other hand, if you're into unstructured sounds, a Loop Station is an amazing tool for creating swirling, ambient soundscapes in real time.

By the way, Loop Stations aren't just for guitar sounds—they also have microphone and auxiliary inputs, enabling you to incorporate vocals and external audio sources into your loop-making ventures. In fact, with its long recording time, a Loop Station makes a great recorder for songwriting ideas.

A Loop Station also makes a great practice tool. You can jam along with backing tracks to build your chops, and record your playing to hear how you're progressing. You can even record external audio from a CD or MP3 and slow down the playback without changing the pitch—a great tool for learning your favorite guitarists' licks.

LET THE LOOP BEGIN

As you can see, a BOSS Loop Station allows guitarists to join the loop universe, and invent new and innovative ways of performing along the way. Why should keyboardists and DJs have all the fun? Grab your guitar, head on down to your BOSS dealer, and "get in the loop" with the RC-50, RC-2, and RC-20XL Loop Stations.





http://media.bossus.com/bugonline/how_to.asp?art=rc-50



http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/faq.cfm?iCncd=1038&FAQ=EN05-10738&dsp=1&ln=en&prd=RC50

Q: What is the RC-50's MIDI functionality?

A: The RC-50 is equipped with MIDI IN and OUT connectors for connection to MIDI devices. Following are some of the things that can be done when the RC-50 is connected to another device via MIDI.

Synchronization of the RC-50 with an external MIDI device:
The RC-50 can transmit and receive MIDI Clock messages. This allows the RC-50's tempo to be synchronized with any external device that supports MIDI Clock communication, such as a BOSS BR-series recorder. The RC-50 can function as either the synchronization master or slave.

Additionally, the RC-50 can send and receive MIDI start and stop messages. This allows an external device to start phrase playback on the RC-50, or vice versa.

Transmit program and control change messages:
When you change patches on the RC-50, a MIDI program change message is sent to its MIDI OUT jack, allowing you to change programs on a connected external MIDI device. Program change messages 1 through 99 are transmitted, corresponding to the RC-50's 99 patches (Patch 1 sends Program Change 1, Patch 2 sends Program Change 2, and so on).

The RC-50 can also transmit MIDI control change (CC) messages when an external foot switch is connected to the CTL 1,2 PEDAL jack (transmits CC#80 and CC#81) or an expression pedal is connected to the EXP/CTL 3,4 PEDAL jack (transmits CC#7).

Receive program changes from an external MIDI device:
You can change the RC-50's patches with program change messages received from an external MIDI device.

Control other RC-50 functions from an external MIDI device that transmits MIDI control change messages:
Various RC-50 functions can be controlled by MIDI control change messages (CC#1/CC#7/CC#80) transmitted by an external device. Among these functions are phrase playback, phrase volume, patch level, patch tempo, and many more. This convenient feature allows you to control many things that would be difficult to control in real time with only the RC-50's pedals.

    Advice--- The RC-50 control change functions can be set up on a system level (applied to all patches) or on a patch level (applied only to the selected patch). Patch CC settings allow for great flexibility, as you can target specific functions on a patch-by-patch basis. For example, in one patch you can set CC#80 to control the playback of a specific phrase, while in another patch CC#80 can reverse the playback of a specific phrase.



dead_lizard

Was thinking of saving up for an RC50, but reading all this stuff makes me think "f*ck it, just start with an RC2 and work your way up! I want to loop NOW and Ableton's gonna take to long to learn to use. Besides it would be nice to start out with something small, rather than having to cart my laptop and mixer to every gig!"


dead_lizard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZBI6cAYsY&feature=related

Liam Finn (son of Neil)

Usually does this song ten times better than here, but goes to show what can be done with a looper and some enthusiasm. Keep your ears out for a good example of the Octave down feature.

hausmann

That's pretty cool.  It looks like he reached his left foot over to RC-50 to end the loop, while still playing the drums.  I'm getting old--I'd probably tip over if I tried that.
-Eric
I wanna join your band
erichausmann.bandcamp.com

dead_lizard

Ah yes, but you've got a d-beam haven't you??

You could use your Jedi powers to activate your looper....

hausmann

Quote from: dead_lizard on January 29, 2008, 05:55:19 PM
You could use your Jedi powers to activate your looper....

ohh yesss.  I am really starting to like the D-beam a lot more than I thought I would (the ribbon?  hmm, it's ok.)  Now If only I could plant a half dozen wireless d-beams in various locations.
-Eric
I wanna join your band
erichausmann.bandcamp.com

dead_lizard

My D-beam delusion involves Exotic Dancers!!!

Maybe that's what the D stands for: Delusion.

feloniouspunk

I have got to get a RC-50, no doubt about it.  I am currently editing/mixing an album I just recorded with a drummer that uses one with a ZenDrum LT (google it!) that triggered Live 7 and battery 3.  He laid down some amazingly cool musical beds for me to improvise over with the 99.  At on point he even had a mono feed of the 99 and he would randomly make loops of me as I messed around with different patches.  It is really nice to be able to "loop out" spontaneously and build tracks away from the computer for a change.  I will get one!
Lots of Gear. :)

dead_lizard

Yeah, it's just that that they're so expensive.....well the 50 is, anyway. I said to myself after the VG purchases "right, that's it. no new toys for a year!"

But one little tiny RC2 stomp box.......

I feel like I'm already caught in a loop :D

mikesharpsongs

Any chance of the VG-99 including a future upgrade to include RC-loopstation functions?  I'm not a fan of adding all the extra hardware at my feet or removing what remains in my wallet.

feloniouspunk

I hear ya MM, but I cant say that I know.  I think something like that was added to the future feature list, but who knows what Roland will do. 
Lots of Gear. :)

Elantric

>Any chance of the VG-99 including a future upgrade to include RC-loopstation functions?

The word I got from Roland US was a definite - NO.

Which I found a bit irritating since the new Boss GT-10 (which to me seems like the baby brother to the VG-99) was sitting there less than 50 feet away with its own new built-in "phrase looper" effect.


This is a trend Roland has done for quite a while. They introduce the flagship, then 6 months later the baby brother arrives with a few additional desired features that never get back updated  or "unlocked" on the top model. Its a strategy that generates new revenue for them.   


dead_lizard

An effects loop would take 90% of the sting out of it for me.

But this fan-out box you're talking about, it could do the trick?

Albeit in a less elegant matter...

vermelho

woohoo!
I put an RSS search on craigslist, and it hit. Today I bought an RC-50, and bought it back to the nest to hook up to the other shiny things.
The darn thing is very complex, but I was entertained just jammin over a little drum riff in there, a coupla chords and bass.
I think this is really going to help my playing, since I don't get out to play with other people often enough.  It's great to have accompaniment!
Roland VG-99 (doh!), Roland VG-8, Godin LGXT, Godin Nylon Multiac, Boss RC-50.
1980's Gibson LP w/ custom shop Roland install, BC-13, various period synth gear.
Digitech GSP-2101 (gathering dust), Roland JC-77 amp,
Fender pre-CBS super amp. Eastman jazz, Lowden, Taylor 12str, Adamas acoustics..

vermelho

oooh - one thing. I don't think it's a biggy, but my used RC-50 didn't have the cd that's supposed to come with it. The guy lost it.
He's also recorded over all the patches. He said they are garbage and cheesy, but the manual I see says you need the cd to do a reset to original settings.   

Anyhoo - could I ask one of you kind sirs to make a copy of the cd and mail it to me? (unless you want to meet in NYC).  I can Paypal a couple bucks for the trouble....
TIA
Roland VG-99 (doh!), Roland VG-8, Godin LGXT, Godin Nylon Multiac, Boss RC-50.
1980's Gibson LP w/ custom shop Roland install, BC-13, various period synth gear.
Digitech GSP-2101 (gathering dust), Roland JC-77 amp,
Fender pre-CBS super amp. Eastman jazz, Lowden, Taylor 12str, Adamas acoustics..

hausmann

Quote from: vermelho on February 06, 2008, 08:22:36 PM

Anyhoo - could I ask one of you kind sirs to make a copy of the cd and mail it to me? (unless you want to meet in NYC).  I can Paypal a couple bucks for the trouble....


I can send you one.  Message (or email) your address and I'll pop one in the mail to you.
-Eric
I wanna join your band
erichausmann.bandcamp.com

Elantric


vanceg

That had to be the biggest surprise to me at our meeting with Roland; that the VG-99 hardware just won't support adding a looping feature.  It seems so, so SO very clear that this is EXACTLY the market that would want to have a looper.
I think I am going to stick with just bringing my laptop with me and plugging the VG-99 into it to do looping. Though if I could find a looping pedal that would allow me to create loops with long loop crossfades, I might buy a stand alone unit.

It's interesting to hear you all talk about the RC-50: good to hear some good reviews of it.

Vance


Quote from: sustainiac on January 31, 2008, 04:36:09 PM
>Any chance of the VG-99 including a future upgrade to include RC-loopstation functions?

The word I got from Roland US was a definite - NO.

Which I found a bit irritating since the new Boss GT-10 (which to me seems like the baby brother to the VG-99) was sitting there less than 50 feet away with its own new built-in "phrase looper" effect.


This is a trend Roland has done for quite a while. They introduce the flagship, then 6 months later the baby brother arrives with a few additional desired features that never get back updated  or "unlocked" on the top model. Its a strategy that generates new revenue for them.   



Elantric

#18
The EH 2880 looks user friendly and has good reviews:

http://www.ehx.com/ehx2/Default.asp?f=%2FCatalog%2F01_New_Products%2F09_2880&q=f


Elantric


agaskins

Ableton Live 8's looper plug-in is the best options for looping in my opinion. I just ditched my RC-50 as part of a trade for a Brian Moore 8.13... and I don't miss it since using Ableton. For example, just try changing tempo on the RC-50 after you record a loop.... even just a hair... Its horrible! Now try playing music with other humans.... you must choose a) do I mangle my sound by adjusting the tempo, b) stop the loop and whatever else I'm doing to re-loop the part, or c) wait a few more seconds to see if they get back in sync with me... just a few more seconds.... ah, too late, the song derailed. :P

Live has tempo nudging, which is the ideal solution for the example above. I dedicate a pedal to forward-nudge and pedal to backwards nudge on my FCB1010. It sounds flawless when the tempo changes in Live, unless you do something extremely drastic.

Also, with Ableton Live and an FCB1010 you can set up unlimited looping possibilities; you can have one track for your looper and feed any other track through it (VG99, soft synths, vocals, whatever...), or you can have 5 looper channels for more options. or however many, but 5 works out nicer with the FCB1010 and is still more than the 3 you get on the RC-50, then you can make the button above this one clear each looper. Really anything you can imagine.

I know this solution doesn't help everyone, as some people don't have / don't want to use a laptop live. I get around most of the reliability issues by dual booting my laptop; one Windows installation is for my music performance rig, and another is for my tracking / noodling set up. The prior stays super clean and is not used for anything except Ableton Live.

Yes... I am a little bitter about the RC-50, haha. I felt royally screwed by Roland/Boss. I was so disappointed when I found out how horrible it is at changing tempo the slightest bit and the all but broken MIDI implementation. To me, it also feels like Live gets a perfect loop much more easily, I think there's extra wizardry going on with it.

Just my 2 cents... I think the RC-50 is a great idea and physical design but a flawed implementation.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: Elantric on March 06, 2008, 02:22:02 PM
The EH 2880 looks user friendly and has good reviews:

http://www.ehx.com/ehx2/Default.asp?f=%2FCatalog%2F01_New_Products%2F09_2880&q=f

According to what I've heard this was just discontinued.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.