SY-300 - Routing Pre/Post Drive / 4 cable method

Started by panturnio, September 13, 2016, 02:47:49 PM

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panturnio

Hi everyone!

Is someone using the SY300 with a tube amp and 4 cable method?

I mean this routhing:
Guitar -> SY300 Input
SY300 Thru -> Amp Input
Amp Efx send -> SY300 Return
Sy300 main out -> Amp Efx Return

I want to use the SY300 as main multieffect.
It's possible to have a Compressor in pre amp position and a Delay in the amp loop?
Is the oscillators signal routable pre/post?
For who have already tested 4 cable method, is it quite or add noise? Does it maintain the original amp sound or does it change your tone?

Thanks!!!!!

Elantric

#1

Review the Boss SY-300 block diagram and observe that the SY-300 Thru Output is connected directly to the SY-300 Input

QuoteIs someone using the SY300 with a tube amp and 4 cable method?

I mean this routhing:
Guitar -> SY300 Input
SY300 Thru -> Amp Input
Amp Efx send -> SY300 Return
Sy300 main out -> Amp Efx Return
i expect you may get feedback oscillations from the external amp's preamp if you connect in the manner you suggest

 

gumtown

In a round about way you can use it 4CM,
using the SUB out as a send.
The OSC are always at the front of the chain, but almost everything else is movable.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

panturnio

#3
@Elantric: I know that I've to be careful with synth settings if I'm going to send them in my distorted amp. For sure if I want a distorted guitar sound with a soft synth pad I have to use sub outs and send them to my PA in order to let the synth part clean. I' have to try!

@Gumtown: Today I'm back to the guitar shop and I've tried (without even connect the guitar) to mess around with the routing menu. Sure I I use the sub out as a Send, but then if I send that signal to the return it would be unusable.

The routing that you've suggested would be:
Guitar -> SY300 Input
Sub Out -> Amplifier Input
Amplifier Send -> SY300 Return
SY300 Main Out -> Amplifier Return

The Sub Out can be routed almost anyewhere, but the Return is always at the beginning of the signal flow (just after In and Thru) so I would take a signal and send it again at the beginning.
It doesn't make sense to me...
What I need is to use some effects before and some effects after my amp, but maybe is not possible with the SY300.

Other suggestions?
thanks!

Elantric

#4
I just feed SY-300 output to PA and use proper FX Modeler (M13 or FX8 ) as a 4 cable FX method with my Amp
http://guitargearfinder.com/guides/use-four-cable-method/

Caramello Koala

#5
Hi, I have integrated my SY300 into my rig and use it as a multi effects box as well as a guitar synth. I have it routed as Guitar > input SY300 > main output SY300 > distortion > overdrive > EQ > delay/reverb > amp. I would like to know how to hook it up so that I can have the SY300 before and after the distortion (I'm not interested in using the SY300s in built drives) so that I can have the SY300s reverb, delay and trem after distortion pedals, and the SY300s modulation before.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the thru/return and maybe the sub in/out but I have no idea. I should add that my amp does not have an effects loop so all my pedals are running before it (it's a clean amp) and I'm not running stereo, I just want my SY300 to be in two places in my chain at once, like how you can with the Strymon Mobius.

I have looked through the manual and even the signal flow chart but it doesn't make sense to me... If anyone can guide me in the right direction I'd really appreciate it.

hading

On a patch where you want to do this you can set on of the oscillators to use the input source directly. Then put the pre- effects directly after this oscilator. Then put the sub out right after that, running that to the rest of your pedals. Bring that back into the return jack, and then you can put more effects after the return. Use the oscillator assigner and oscillator mixer to kill the semi-dry guitar sound if you don't want it. Use the output mixer to adjust between the guitar sound and and synth sounds that you're using with the other two oscillators.

panturnio

Wow, me too I was searching for a workaraund to do the Four Cable Method with my amp, and this seams to be the solution!
So, if I've understood well, if I turn down the direct level and rise up the synth level in a patch where all the oscillators are Off, I have a patch with my dry guitar sound?

If Yes, that' just the passage I was missing...
Thanks, Hading!

szilard

Quote from:  panturnio on September 18, 2016, 10:07:38 AM
Wow, me too I was searching for a workaraund to do the Four Cable Method with my amp, and this seams to be the solution!
So, if I've understood well, if I turn down the direct level and rise up the synth level in a patch where all the oscillators are Off, I have a patch with my dry guitar sound?

If Yes, that' just the passage I was missing...
Thanks, Hading!

One osc is set to Input and the other two are turned off and set the Input osc parameters so they don't mess with the signal, direct level set to zero, and that is the dry guitar sound. You could also have multiple osc set to input if you want parallel fx before the amp.

panturnio

That's super cool!!
And will it be a real dry sound or that oscillator would degrade my sound?

Another cool option could be to pan that first oscillator to Left Sub Out (and send it to the Return) and the other 2 oscillators to Right Sub Out (and send it to a P.A.). This way allow to do the 4 Cable Method and in the meantime to send a Synth sound to the P.A.
Isn't it?

szilard

Even though it's an osc when it's set to Input it is the input signal so as long as you don't mess with the parameters that is the dry sound of the input.

From the Parameter Guide -

WAVEFORM      Selects the waveform that is the basis of the sound.

                      SIN                Sine wave
                      SAW               Sawtooth wave
                      TRI                 Triangle wave
                      SQR                Square wave
                      PWM               Pulse width
                      DETUNE SAW    Two sawtooth waves with slightly different pitches
                      NOISE              Noise
                      INPUT              Input signal


Another cool option
Yes, there is a lot you can do with the routing ...


panturnio

#11
4CM for Sy300 explained here (thanks to Hading and to Szilard):
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19079.0

Caramello Koala

Quote from: hading on September 18, 2016, 05:49:40 AM
On a patch where you want to do this you can set on of the oscillators to use the input source directly. Then put the pre- effects directly after this oscilator. Then put the sub out right after that, running that to the rest of your pedals. Bring that back into the return jack, and then you can put more effects after the return. Use the oscillator assigner and oscillator mixer to kill the semi-dry guitar sound if you don't want it. Use the output mixer to adjust between the guitar sound and and synth sounds that you're using with the other two oscillators.

Thanks, I tried that and it worked, but unfortunately it introduced another problem - my overdrive pedals now only produce sound when the SY300 is on. Is there a way to fix this?

panturnio

i can immagine that Sy300 gas not a thru bypass signal flow. So if you turn down the unit you won't hear you Guitar going to the amp and nor your overdrive pedal.

If you're talkin about the On/Off pedal in the Sy300, instead, I believe it's possibile to change it's behivour in the Utility/System menu.

ericlmr

Quote from: panturnio on September 21, 2016, 02:41:26 PM
i can immagine that Sy300 gas not a thru bypass signal flow. So if you turn down the unit you won't hear you Guitar going to the amp and nor your overdrive pedal.

If you're talkin about the On/Off pedal in the Sy300, instead, I believe it's possibile to change it's behivour in the Utility/System menu.

Nope : even with the SY300 switched off , you will still be able to hear your guitar in your amp (guitar input -> thru to your other pedals and amp).

panturnio

Hi!
I don't own a Sy 300 yet (maybe I'm going to purchase it next week) but I'm really studing hard the manual and today I've started to take a look at the editor (luckily it can be used without connecting the actual device).
That's the way I'm planning to connect the Sy300 to my tube amp with the 4 cable method.
I want to have some effects "in pre", like compressor, overdrive, phaser, and some ambience effects in the amp efx loop.
I'll have 2 oscillators left for synth sounds, and they will go straight to the power amp.
The idea is to use CT1/2/3 to on-off effects and the On/Off to activate the oscillators.

What do you think about it all?


panturnio

Well, finally I've got my SY 300 !!!
Unfortunately I just can't manage to do the 4 cable method.

I've started testing something easy:


GUITAR GOES TO SY 300 INPUT ->
(Osc 1 and 2 are off, Osc 3 is set to Input with no filtering at all. After the oscillators I've put an Compressor and a Flanger. Than I've put there the Sub Out)

SY 300 SUB OUT GOES TO AMPLIFIER INPUT ->

AMP FX SEND GOES TO SY 300 RETURN ->
(here I've put a delay and a reverb)

SY300 MAIN OUT GOES TO AMP FX RETURN

With this configuration I have Comp and Flanger in pre and delay + reverb in the fx loop.
It almost works, but I can hear the a clean sound summed to my amp channels.
It means that the SY 300 is sending to the power amp not only the effects, but even a dry clean signal.

How can I fix it?
I've passed the last 2 hours trying all the mixer settings, but I can just manage to do it  >:(


The second step for me will be to invert it all: I need to have the sy300 "return path" in front of the amp, and the "input path" in the loop, so that I can add synth effects to my sounds (clean or distorted) and then send them to the clean power amp.

Any help here?
I've waited to own a Sy300 for so long planing what I could do with this pedal, and now I just feel lost
:o

szilard

Quote from: panturnio on November 29, 2016, 08:29:12 AM

With this configuration I have Comp and Flanger in pre and delay + reverb in the fx loop.
It almost works, but I can hear the a clean sound summed to my amp channels.
It means that the SY 300 is sending to the power amp not only the effects, but even a dry clean signal.

How can I fix it?
I've passed the last 2 hours trying all the mixer settings, but I can just manage to do it  >:(


Check the direct level, it should be 0.


JackoBass

I don't know why they did an "unmoveable" Thru/Return loop. I think on the GT's, it's a Send/Return that you can move along the chain.

I'm using headphones (not a full range amp) and trying to insert my Art tube preamp in the loop to warm up regular guitar patches. I'd just like to do Input > Osc1/Input > FX1-CMP > FX2-OD > FX3-DIST > Thur/Return (External Art Tube) > FX4-DLY > Output. Is this kinda what you guys are trying to sort out in this thread?

JiveTurkey

SY en route. I am planning on giving the cobbled 4cm with my Quilter a go. I think I can make it "work" :P