VG-99 - Patch creation strategies for live gig needs.

Started by Elantric, February 24, 2008, 06:49:57 AM

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Elantric

George Pootnik wrote

For Davor (and other amp-addicts) who miss not having instant
access to amp controls :

Make a "mother-patch"
with amp-EQ functions for F1 to F6 knobs. Assign also the
volume (and maybe wah) function to an expression pedal.
Tweak your favorite amp-model so good as you can and to
your liking. Assign the GK-vol to COSM-guit-level and mix
always 50 % normal pickup to it. Save it on 10 locations at
least. Now you can make individual patches with variations.
Now you can grab a knob to reduce-increase the trebble,
which is the most important thing.


another Good tip for those of us who need a set of the "standards", more or
less realistic guitar sounds.

I noticed that, whereas we cannot save our knobs to a Favorites, we
can import a guitar model from another patch. There's an onscreen
button in the VG-99 Editor, in a few places, that's labeled "Copy
From Patch". This could be a real timesaver. I see it in the COSM
GUITAR and ALTERNATE TUNING windows, among others:



So you can use George's suggestion to keep a "mother-patch" , or
"template", with the knobs set up as you like. Then, if you want to
use the same guitar model from another patch, or even the amp, look
for that Copy From Patch button.

To be continued...
------------ -
Best regards,
George
www.midiguitar.eu
__._,_.___

Davor

I fully agree, George, and I have begun it already with Moonie. However, if you, Moonie or somebody can make just ONE TEMPLATE PATCH
for my further editing, it would be VERY helpful for my / our LIVE-future !

My preferred guitars mixtures are :

A standard Strat  (bridge-middle) through the Twin cleanish combo
and
the 335 both pickups through the warm bluesy or Mesa combo

I always use the external volume pedal plugged in with an option for a Wah.
(NO FC-300) - all is controlled by VG-99 knobs or from the GK & guitar knobs.

The F1 - F5 knobs can be EQ: treble, middle, bass  and Reverb,
just as you said and the rest is as you said - volume via GK.
(Moonie did few patches like that brilliantly)

I always mix 50% of my Gibson magnetic pickups  into the mix
again as you said, George.

Finally, to confirm how right you are, I use Fender Deluxe Reverb
combo which is basically small TWIN and indeed I always
vary only TREBLE and VOLUME while playing and
the amount of reverb between songs.

So, maybe I will be able to gig  with my VG-99 when I get a good template patch
and re-edit all 10 of them. Then I can post them for you guys and test them - LIVE!

We have live gigs in Lausanne, Zermatt, Cossaonay, Dubrovnik ... busy spring-summer ...

Gratefully, Davor

truth57

Hi there, has anyone made any progress with this patch template yet? I don't yet have my VG-99, but it would still be a useful exercise to look at inside the editor and see how it all fits together......

David

Davor

Yes, we have the template and I'm working on  a series of patches, so you will be fine when you get your VG-99.


truth57

Quote from: Davor on April 03, 2008, 02:39:16 PM
Yes, we have the template and I'm working on  a series of patches, so you will be fine when you get your VG-99.



Thank you Davor, that is great  :). Please keep me posted on progress.

mikeksu

Where is this patch template located?  I would like to try and use it as well.  Thanks.



Davor



I have added the jazzy EQ live file to jazz patches section:  JazzyL4&335EQ.mid
I thought it ws there, but wasn't. Tweak it and enjoy it (live).

Soon more such patches will be posted with EQ (F1-F6) that were pre-templated by Moonie.

Davor :)


booth421

El Groupo:
I'm new here, but know Brent and Moonie from the Steinberger group.. I have had this thing for two whole weeks and whew! This unit is el-deep-aroni.. A total and complete shift from the Fred Flintstone approach of guitars, pedal board, spagetti cords, stomp boxs, to tube amps.. What do I do with all these echo, eq and fuzz boxes now? I have based my life on those boxes and now I'm not sure how to handle it being free of them..
I've learned more from lurking on this group than reading the dang manual.. I've slept with that thing and still can't grok it..
I play in a classic rock outfit and have crafted about 20 patches that I will use playing out.. Does anyone else wakeup in the middle of the nite with new patch ideas?
I'm waiting for the US-20 from e-bay to get my synth stuff going with the new rig, as I am somewhat disappointed with the 99 synth patches.. Not the same horns, strings and B-3 sounds I am used to..
I've yet to attempt your template thing, but suspect when I do all the patches I've lost sleep about will be obsolete.. Ho-Humm..
Good-bye Fred Flintstone, hello George Jetson.. D. Booth
Check my solo stuff out at Soundclick.com "Frank Must Die"

booth421

El Groupo:
I finally have a question.. How do you get control of volume between patches? Say I'm on patch one with the volume adjusted just right by GK-2 knob, then when I switch to patch two the volume is different. Nice to have the volume the same when I switch patches.. There has to be a parameter that I'm missing.. Thanx in advance.. D. Booth
Check my solo stuff out at Soundclick.com "Frank Must Die"

Brent Flash

Quote from: booth421 on February 11, 2009, 05:40:21 AM
El Groupo:
I finally have a question.. How do you get control of volume between patches? Say I'm on patch one with the volume adjusted just right by GK-2 knob, then when I switch to patch two the volume is different. Nice to have the volume the same when I switch patches.. There has to be a parameter that I'm missing.. Thanx in advance.. D. Booth

What's up D! Welcome to the group!  :)

Your first question is probably one that most everyone that has the VG is fighting with especially if they are using it live.

The first thing I would check is to see if you have ASSIGN HOLD set to ON in the SYSTEM/SYSTEM CONTROL ASSIGN pane. This will carry over into the new patch selected the control settings, if they exist in the new patch. In other words if you have your GK volume turned down and the patch you are going to has GK volume assigned the same way it will get turned down too. Or if you are using the FC-300 EXP PEDAL 2 for for FV and you have it set just right, and the new patch has the same assignments, the new patch will be turned down in the same way.

But, I only wish it were that simple and the problem would be solved. I find I have spent more time finding ways to balance my volume than almost anything else and because I am now using my FC-300 in two modes for live performance I cannot use the ASSIGN HOLD parameter.  :'(

So I have spent a lot of time matching the presets so that when I call them up they will be in the ballpark and I adjust from there. Hope this helps!

gigabetz

I can't believe I finally found the answer to this question  :P
I have been using the VG-99 in the Taliband here in Afghanistan for a year now and at the Kabul Airport for a year before that and the biggest head-ache has been matching patch volumes live. I play for NATO troops in the evenings here. Actually the reason I use the VG-99 here is because of it's flexibility. I have many beautiful guitars but they were just getting ruined out here with the dry air. I would usually keep them here for four months and ship them home so I have about 20 guitars now. I bought an American Telecaster and put a GK-3 pickup on it and it works quite well although, I think it was always defective because the 'Mix' section of the pickup never worked, it's either guitar or gk but not both. Because I rely on it, I couldn't send it back, I miss my SG so I am contemplating getting a less expensive one and installing a piezo system in it because there is no room on an SG for a GK-3. If anybody has any suggestions as to the best solution, I am as they say "all ears".
You guys would have laughed at my as I changed the 'Patch Level' in the editor and attempted to save the patch thinking the unit was defective! It seems reasonable to me that the Patch Level is static and is over written when you touch your volume control but noooooo.

Brent Flash

Quote from: gigabetz on February 13, 2009, 02:59:39 PM
I can't believe I finally found the answer to this question  :P
I have been using the VG-99 in the Taliband here in Afghanistan for a year now and at the Kabul Airport for a year before that and the biggest head-ache has been matching patch volumes live. I play for NATO troops in the evenings here. Actually the reason I use the VG-99 here is because of it's flexibility. I have many beautiful guitars but they were just getting ruined out here with the dry air. I would usually keep them here for four months and ship them home so I have about 20 guitars now. I bought an American Telecaster and put a GK-3 pickup on it and it works quite well although, I think it was always defective because the 'Mix' section of the pickup never worked, it's either guitar or gk but not both. Because I rely on it, I couldn't send it back, I miss my SG so I am contemplating getting a less expensive one and installing a piezo system in it because there is no room on an SG for a GK-3. If anybody has any suggestions as to the best solution, I am as they say "all ears".
You guys would have laughed at my as I changed the 'Patch Level' in the editor and attempted to save the patch thinking the unit was defective! It seems reasonable to me that the Patch Level is static and is over written when you touch your volume control but noooooo.
Welcome to the group gigabetz!  :)

Sounds like a very interesting gig you have there. Something that you will probably remember for the rest of your life I would think.

Glad you could find something useful here. Just give us a shout if you have any questions.

booth421

El-Groupo:
Had my first gig with the new rig.. Man I had this thing dialed in, and I was ready.. Tuned up and turned up volume and I got this feedback I have never heard before.. The feedback was not from amp being to close to strings.. I know about that kind of feedback.. This was some different type of freakiness that threw me off.. I could only creep up in volume to a certain spot and it would feedback.. Somehow I managed to get a passable patch sound and made it through the nite..
Back at home this thing is melting my face off with volume and sounds just fine.. I cannot receate at home the problem I had live.. All I can think of is I had my full range speakers plugged in wrong or something..
Solid state power amp--2 full range speaker cabs-- US 20 driving VG-99 and GR-1--Synth went thru house PA and sounded fine.. Should I try plugging into speaker cabs in wrong configurations to get that strangeness again? I want to know, but don't want to fry anything..
Thanx..
Check my solo stuff out at Soundclick.com "Frank Must Die"

Elantric


Brent Flash

Quote from: booth421 on March 17, 2009, 06:09:57 AM
El-Groupo:
Had my first gig with the new rig.. Man I had this thing dialed in, and I was ready.. Tuned up and turned up volume and I got this feedback I have never heard before.. The feedback was not from amp being to close to strings.. I know about that kind of feedback.. This was some different type of freakiness that threw me off.. I could only creep up in volume to a certain spot and it would feedback.. Somehow I managed to get a passable patch sound and made it through the nite..
Back at home this thing is melting my face off with volume and sounds just fine.. I cannot receate at home the problem I had live.. All I can think of is I had my full range speakers plugged in wrong or something..
Solid state power amp--2 full range speaker cabs-- US 20 driving VG-99 and GR-1--Synth went thru house PA and sounded fine.. Should I try plugging into speaker cabs in wrong configurations to get that strangeness again? I want to know, but don't want to fry anything..
Thanx..
These topics may help:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,43.0.html
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,1199.0.html
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,1520.0.html
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,1429.0.html

feloniouspunk

#16
What is your main output usually set at?  I had that problem too when I first plugged into a larger P.A.  After setting up all my patch volumes in the studio using my monitors things turned out be waaay to loud for the system.  I switched output mode to system and turned everything down globally.   Then individually increased the patch volume if needed.  I don't know if this will help or not.
Lots of Gear. :)

booth421

El Groupo:
I use the GK-2 and crafted my main patches using the whole rig at stage volume.. Sounded fine before and after the gig.. I do notice on some of the factory presets some microphonic issues, but I may have wrongly assumed it was those funky factory presets.. Seems like it's time to pot..
I just wonder why I can't get it to do the same thing at home with the same set up.. I had a car like that once.. When I really needed to go someplace it wouldn't start.. Take it to the shop and it purred..
Thanx for the advice.. You guys are the greatest.. D. Booth
Check my solo stuff out at Soundclick.com "Frank Must Die"

Elantric


booth421

El-Groupo:
Have potted both gk-2 pickups for the steinie and strat and am ready for a friday nite gig.. The process was easier than I thought, plus I didn't burn down the house.. I've got the rig dialed in and I have my fingers crossed.. I'll let you know the results.. D. Booth
Check my solo stuff out at Soundclick.com "Frank Must Die"

Elantric

#20
I'd set up your rig at home- crank all amps to gig volume and engage the patches that used to cause feedback - no need to play - just move the guitar three feet away from the speaker, and mute the strings, and see if your wax potting was effective at reducing the microphonic howling.

booth421

El Groupo:
The gig itself was good, but the sound was even better.. I can only say the potting of the GK-2 pick-ups must have worked very well.. I still have to do some minor tweaks to some patches.. (It really doesn't ever stop does it?)
My Keith Richards 5 string was the hit of the nite with the boys in the band.. Brown Sugar and Honky Tonk Woman sounded very authentic, while the crowd was oblivious as usual.. Although he tried to hide it, my co-guitar player looked green with envy while I did the filter ribbon thing in the middle of my solo during Bang a Gong.... He also dug the electric 12 string along with rythym guitar filling up alot of space during verses and the wammie bar at the wave of my hand.. During the breaks he just looked at the face of the unit and said, "Whoa dude".. The VG-99 just messed him up..
I broke the patches in three ways.. 1-5 les paul with 12 string with reverb, LP with short delay, LP longer delay, LP really long dual delay, and LP wah.. 6-10 are simiar strat settings with short to long delays and wah.. 13-17 are 12 string, 2 acoustics, drop D and 5 string tele.. Not too complicated.. Enough to handle 4 sets of classic rock bar band stuff for the nite..   Thanx for the help.. D. Booth
Check my solo stuff out at Soundclick.com "Frank Must Die"

Jim Williams

I have been using the VG-99 for about a year now. I am not well to do so I am careful how spend my money. I play locally and don't play big venues. I am posting this for the average Joe.
    My VG is mounted right to my mic stand with a Roland APC-33 drum clamp (same mount plate as PDS-10 stand). On the bottom of the VG is mounted by Velcro an Alesis Nanosynth. All this goes out to a Barringer mini mixer. Then form the mixer I go out to 2 Tech 21 Power 60's (basically just powered 1X12 cabs). The Tech 21's have XLR outs to the PA. The Tech 21's are on the floor pointed up at me like monitors. I find this works out well and I can't afford a good set of in ear for under $500.00 and in local bands not everyone plays direct. I hope this helps anyone with live sound issues. I have read many posts on problems playing live and found that they can be solved with the VG-99.
    1)Keep your GK settings lower to reduce that squealing feedback.
    2) Use multiple global settings for rehearsal and different sized rooms.
    3) set your GK setting to patch and not system...so you can use different settings IE acoustic, Synth, Higain, ETC.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

booth421

El-Groupo:
Funny thing happened the other nite at a gig.. In between songs my guitar was suddenly way out of tune.. You know that panic when the drummer counts 1, 2, 3-- and I yelled wait! I start tuning like crazy while front man makes obscene comments to the crowd to stall for time.. I almost get the thing tuned and I look over and see my lyrics clip sheet had swung around and was over the D-Beam.. Then I really had to tune to get it back.. Only one way to learn that lesson.. D. Booth
Check my solo stuff out at Soundclick.com "Frank Must Die"

maxdaddy